Sharkey shows his teeth
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Not quite glojo. Lord Carrington, the Foreign Secretary resigned in 1982, taking full responsibility for the lack of attention that the FCO had given to the Falklands. John Nott, the Defence Secretary tendered his resignation but it was not accepted. Those were the days when politicians stood up to be counted and took the Mess Webley if needed.
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The beauty with stories sensationalised for the general public
Good spot Capt PUG!
Not that it really matters in this emotive discussion, but everyone in the UK military back in '93-'94 timeframe knows well, rather than the very exciting, quick transition to war in the Adriatic Theatre as described by Nick in his book, the fact was that he was an experienced Squadron pilot on the RN's 3rd rotation of ships into theatre, and the build up to actual intervention had taken more than a year. A year where the Sea Harrier force focus had been either to operate over Bosnia or train to operate over Bosnia.
I suppose the relevant point to be made is that when books are written, often using an experienced ghost writer, some details might be hyped up to enhance sales. The follow-on is that these books, whether they are written by Sharkey, Nick, or even Moggie for that matter, should probably not be used as source documents for fighter pilot training, or as reference documents of historic fact.
As to whether being half ready for conflict, and going in anyway is a good thing or not...I am afraid that is often the nature of war. People in the armed forces are supposed to be ready to fight immediately. If it is professional to hang back and wait a while in the face of the enemy, then that is a very different level of professionalism to what I saw (and expect) in the British military, regardless of the colour of your uniform.
If I remember Nick Richardson wrote about it in his book: No Escape Zone: One Man's True Story of a Journey to Hell.
I suppose the relevant point to be made is that when books are written, often using an experienced ghost writer, some details might be hyped up to enhance sales. The follow-on is that these books, whether they are written by Sharkey, Nick, or even Moggie for that matter, should probably not be used as source documents for fighter pilot training, or as reference documents of historic fact.
As to whether being half ready for conflict, and going in anyway is a good thing or not...I am afraid that is often the nature of war. People in the armed forces are supposed to be ready to fight immediately. If it is professional to hang back and wait a while in the face of the enemy, then that is a very different level of professionalism to what I saw (and expect) in the British military, regardless of the colour of your uniform.
glojo,
I'd drink to that.
As a trucky I have the greatest respect for the pilots who made it to fighters, esp the Harrier. Whilst at Cottesmore, I'd a little go in the Harrier sim at Wittering. Managed to turn it upside down on a conventional landing - didn't set the throttle stop or something
Respect to ALL pilots that wear the Queen's uniform.
As a trucky I have the greatest respect for the pilots who made it to fighters, esp the Harrier. Whilst at Cottesmore, I'd a little go in the Harrier sim at Wittering. Managed to turn it upside down on a conventional landing - didn't set the throttle stop or something
Gentleman Aviator
I am starting to see a common thread here of rushing into things only half ready.
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Not sure how this will all fit together but Libya: France risks Nato split over call for Gaddafi talks - Telegraph
can we borrow your carrier while we finish this spot of bother off?
can we borrow your carrier while we finish this spot of bother off?
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4th Jul 2011, 10:00 #2992 (permalink)
Modern Elmo
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Maybe the French wanted a carrier operations timeout for some other reason - negotiations, perhaps. Maybe bad weather is merely a cover story.
I say again, what future is planned for the Queen E. upon completion?
I was joking or half joking when I said that about French aviation operations last week. But now it looks like I was k-rect.
Modern Elmo
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Maybe the French wanted a carrier operations timeout for some other reason - negotiations, perhaps. Maybe bad weather is merely a cover story.
I say again, what future is planned for the Queen E. upon completion?
I was joking or half joking when I said that about French aviation operations last week. But now it looks like I was k-rect.
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One person who would give a balanced view of Sharkey Ward was the former Captain of the Invincible, J.J.Black. He would say that although Sharkey could be opinionated to the point of obnoxiousness he was the most experience and capable Sea Harrier pilot. When it came to the Sea Harrier he knew what he was talking about. Unfortunately his pushy personality would get in the way and would brush others up the wrong way. For that they chose to ignore his sound advice. How is that a good way to run the Navy or the military in general? Peoples lives are put at risk because he has offended someone?
Sandy Woodward should have been aware of who within his command had the best knowledge of their various departments and used them. For the Sea Harrier he did not do so.
Sharkey's comments have been taken out of context and largely twisted. Of course he doesn't help his own case by his comments about the RAF needing 24 hours notice, etc.. He was extremely complimentary of the RAF pilots flying the Harrier and the Sea Harrier. He had nothing bad to say about the aircrew who flew the Vulcans and Victor tankers. He did express an opinion about the wisdom of the RAF Vulcan missions and was right to do so. They were not going to achieve much, didn't do so, were extremely expensive and were largely for the RAF senior officers to show that they could get involved.
There appear to be a number on this forum who seem only capable of spitting vitriol from a keyboard. You are free to do so but it doesn't make you right.
Sandy Woodward should have been aware of who within his command had the best knowledge of their various departments and used them. For the Sea Harrier he did not do so.
Sharkey's comments have been taken out of context and largely twisted. Of course he doesn't help his own case by his comments about the RAF needing 24 hours notice, etc.. He was extremely complimentary of the RAF pilots flying the Harrier and the Sea Harrier. He had nothing bad to say about the aircrew who flew the Vulcans and Victor tankers. He did express an opinion about the wisdom of the RAF Vulcan missions and was right to do so. They were not going to achieve much, didn't do so, were extremely expensive and were largely for the RAF senior officers to show that they could get involved.
There appear to be a number on this forum who seem only capable of spitting vitriol from a keyboard. You are free to do so but it doesn't make you right.
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Flap 5,
No vitriol here but what utter cr@p!
The Black Buck Mission proved to the Argentinians that Buenos Aires was within range - Air Operations for Strategic Effect; read your doctrine!
Foldie
No vitriol here but what utter cr@p!
They were not going to achieve much, didn't do so, were extremely expensive and were largely for the RAF senior officers to show that they could get involved.
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I am also sure that the Argies were reassured by their Intelligence information that the British would never risk the possible fallout of bombing Buenos Aires.
I think the cr@p is coming from somewhere else.
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"I am also sure that the Argies were reassured by their Intelligence information that the British would never risk the possible fallout of bombing Buenos Aires."
Maybe not civilians in BA, but what about Military targets ?
Bombing civvies in BA wouldn't have achieved anything except put the world of side and against the UK but a military target would have achieved the same result ?
.
Maybe not civilians in BA, but what about Military targets ?
Bombing civvies in BA wouldn't have achieved anything except put the world of side and against the UK but a military target would have achieved the same result ?
.
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Sharkey was a laugh a minute. Who could forget the splendid wit of dragging the dead crabs on pink ribbons into the Taranto Night dinner? And the joy of paying for the cleaning.
Does anybody remember the tape Des Hughes had of their intercomm with the flameout when they fired a 'winder off at M1.4? My, how we laughed.
Tit!
Does anybody remember the tape Des Hughes had of their intercomm with the flameout when they fired a 'winder off at M1.4? My, how we laughed.
Tit!
Well I am sure the Argies were really scared! 'Within range' is a litle optimistic! Remind me: how many Victor tankers were used?
I am also sure that the Argies were reassured by their Intelligence information that the British would never risk the possible fallout of bombing Buenos Aires.
I think the cr@p is coming from somewhere else.
I am also sure that the Argies were reassured by their Intelligence information that the British would never risk the possible fallout of bombing Buenos Aires.
I think the cr@p is coming from somewhere else.
The irony of Blackbuck is that the RN's senior leadership displayed considerable sense and vision in the decision to launch the operation, and what should be a plus point for the dark blue (as well as for the RAF) is overlooked to indulge in a bout of inaccurate crustacean bashing.
Although it would appear that Admirals Lewin, Leach and Fieldhouse (plus Woodward) were collectively guilty of coming up with a load of cr@p (which was so cr@p it did what they thought it would) rather than displaying the sort of thinking that we might benefit from today if Flap is to be believed.
Last edited by Archimedes; 29th Aug 2011 at 18:12. Reason: To finish post properly after hitting enter key too early...
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Why is it that just about every military qualification has some sort of currency and periodic external assessment requirement, but the self-awarded "Expert on Everything Military' tick appears to endure ad infinitum ?
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Mmmmnice
Very good post.
Because "Expert on Everything Military" falls in the same category as TROLL
in that no qualification needs to be obtained or continual periodic external assessment !!!
.
Very good post.
Because "Expert on Everything Military" falls in the same category as TROLL
in that no qualification needs to be obtained or continual periodic external assessment !!!
.
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I understand what is being said about these Vulcan operations but surely the Argentine Air Force were suffering huge, unsustainable losses. They had used all their exocet missiles, the task group KNEW when air strikes were taking off from the main land and could then start to take the appropriate actions to meet the inbound Argentine threat.
Once ashore on the Falklands then the game was really over? The pilots of the Argentine Air Force displayed flying skills that were second to none but their losses were surely not acceptable?
Just like in the days of Nelson, we ensured their Navy was pinned down, it could not put to sea so therefore no supplies could be landed, no reinforcements of any size could be sent by sea, nor could they attack or drive off our task group.
The main airfield on the island remained operational but could only operate at night with just one aircraft flying out the wounded and bringing in essential supplies. Did this mean the occupying force were to all intents an occupying force with no support, no incoming supplies and very little food. They were really already prisoners but failed to realise it.
I am guessing the Vulcan threat did not rate that high up on the scale of things to worry about, but without doubt it would be another item on that very long list of 'Things to worry about'
It is senseless to criticise what may or may not have taken place but I salute the very brave 1st Sea Lord who had the testicles to contradict what was being advised regarding the re-taking of the islands. We now have NO ONE of his ilk that would dare to speak out and insist on doing what is right.
Surely if Vulcan aircraft were to attack the main land of Argentina then they would be very much on their own. We were not at war with Argentina we were booting out an army that was illegally occupying an island? We had declared a No Go area around these islands but the airspace over and approaching Argentina was open which would expose any inbound aircraft to prolonged and really unnecessary exposure?
I am NOT pretending the government of Argentina would not take precautions against a possible air attack but they would surely have 'tourists' on Ascension Island, or above it. These folks could note what aircraft are using that airbase, when they were taking off and possibly the direction they were heading? If there were Vulcan bombers taking off then it is NOT rocket science to guess where they are heading and only then would there be a need to take counter measures??
The RAF did a tremendous job with their harrier aircraft and without that support could the battle have been one in the available time period? (The task group was in dire need of maintenance)
I for one am NOT attempting to have a silly, willy competition and salute the courage of all those that took part in this conflict. We won, the enemy lost... FULL STOP!
Sharkey Ward was possibly of a similar temperament to Sir Douglas Bader and in times of war we need these folks.
Once ashore on the Falklands then the game was really over? The pilots of the Argentine Air Force displayed flying skills that were second to none but their losses were surely not acceptable?
Just like in the days of Nelson, we ensured their Navy was pinned down, it could not put to sea so therefore no supplies could be landed, no reinforcements of any size could be sent by sea, nor could they attack or drive off our task group.
The main airfield on the island remained operational but could only operate at night with just one aircraft flying out the wounded and bringing in essential supplies. Did this mean the occupying force were to all intents an occupying force with no support, no incoming supplies and very little food. They were really already prisoners but failed to realise it.
I am guessing the Vulcan threat did not rate that high up on the scale of things to worry about, but without doubt it would be another item on that very long list of 'Things to worry about'
It is senseless to criticise what may or may not have taken place but I salute the very brave 1st Sea Lord who had the testicles to contradict what was being advised regarding the re-taking of the islands. We now have NO ONE of his ilk that would dare to speak out and insist on doing what is right.
Surely if Vulcan aircraft were to attack the main land of Argentina then they would be very much on their own. We were not at war with Argentina we were booting out an army that was illegally occupying an island? We had declared a No Go area around these islands but the airspace over and approaching Argentina was open which would expose any inbound aircraft to prolonged and really unnecessary exposure?
I am NOT pretending the government of Argentina would not take precautions against a possible air attack but they would surely have 'tourists' on Ascension Island, or above it. These folks could note what aircraft are using that airbase, when they were taking off and possibly the direction they were heading? If there were Vulcan bombers taking off then it is NOT rocket science to guess where they are heading and only then would there be a need to take counter measures??
The RAF did a tremendous job with their harrier aircraft and without that support could the battle have been one in the available time period? (The task group was in dire need of maintenance)
I for one am NOT attempting to have a silly, willy competition and salute the courage of all those that took part in this conflict. We won, the enemy lost... FULL STOP!
Sharkey Ward was possibly of a similar temperament to Sir Douglas Bader and in times of war we need these folks.