Flying Pay
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Flying Pay
Just a quickie. What is the purpose of flying pay? Just doing some research into it and cant find any reference to it appart from QRs.
Paul
Thanking you in adavance
Paul
Thanking you in adavance
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Specialist Pay The common principles which apply to all items of Specialist Pay are: payment based on recruitment and retention requirements; specified entitled posts; responsive to the internal or external market; and common Reserve Bands including reduced rates for those who apply to PVR or are medically downgraded. In addition, depending on the nature of the specialist employment, payments would be made on a continuous career basis, a non-continuous basis or on completion of a task.
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It is to make those REMFs who sit in their air conditioned portakabins behind the wire know their place in the pecking order. It just lets the rest of the world who the important ones are in the RAF. Of course I don't get flying pay because I am on a much better pay scale called PAS. Its purpose is to annoy Spec Aircrew Sqn Ldrs.
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Kreuger
It also annoys CS Wg Cdrs and gets Gp Capts a bit hot under the collar!! What a great invention was PAS!!!
Just a shame I probably won't see out my time.
Just a shame I probably won't see out my time.
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The purpose of flying pay is start a thread on pprune every 12 months or so to enable sad losers (such as me) to rant about the purpose of flying pay.
Actually it is a recruitment and retention incentive and therefore no longer required. Which is OK because I'm not getting it anymore.
.... or flying pay either
Actually it is a recruitment and retention incentive and therefore no longer required. Which is OK because I'm not getting it anymore.
.... or flying pay either
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I imagine its to keep the 5 million+ worth of training behind the wire and to put up with the sh*t the blunties throw at us.
A better question would be:
Why does a JT get paid the same as an adminer despite having far more responsibility?
A better question would be:
Why does a JT get paid the same as an adminer despite having far more responsibility?
Because the bloody adminers set the pay rates.....
Wasn't like that in my time though, TG1 and TG 2 pay rates were the highest of all the ground trades, the way they should be.
Wasn't like that in my time though, TG1 and TG 2 pay rates were the highest of all the ground trades, the way they should be.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Flying pay prevents the recipient from developing an unsightly depression in the area of the rear trouser pocket; thus maintaining a level of sartorial elegance commensurate with his or her dazzling quick wit and repartee.
Well I remember being in the bar one Friday night when a blunty asked the same question. A very experienced Flt Lt who had recently attended the funeral of one of his comrades killed in a flying accident, summed it up this way!
"If you Blunty's want flying pay then once a year we will all come down to SHQ, line all the officers up against the wall and randomly shoot one of them! Then they can all start claiming flying pay (danger money) or whatever they want to call it!!!"
Do not recall the question arising again on a Friday night
"If you Blunty's want flying pay then once a year we will all come down to SHQ, line all the officers up against the wall and randomly shoot one of them! Then they can all start claiming flying pay (danger money) or whatever they want to call it!!!"
Do not recall the question arising again on a Friday night
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Actually it is a recruitment and retention incentive and therefore no longer required.
It is NOT danger money. I'm not going to get into a contest over whose job is the most dangerous. Irrelevant in this debate.
No other branch, trade or profession in the forces has as much time and money invested in individuals for training and qualification purposes.
Current trainee redundancies aside (not in receipt of SP) we do not want to lose the huge investment in highly transferable skills to the civilian Market.
Hence flying pay for retention.
I'd love to say of course everyone deserves the same because we are all equally valuable but that's a little socialist isn't it, and in objective fiscal terms utterly false.
Now stop whinging.
TTH
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Thread title is Flying Pay, so that means Aviators, so that means I get to post this:
Aviators come from a secret society formed around a thousand years ago. They are warriors, and below is the proof. A little known fact is the origin of the word "aviator". Phu Khen (pronounced Foo Ken), 1169-? is considered by some to be the most under-recognized military officer in history. Many have never heard of his contributions to modern military warfare. The mission of this secret society is to bring honour to the name of Phu Khen. A Khen was a subordinate to a Khan in the military structure of the Mongol hordes. Khan is Turkish for leader. Most know of the great Genghis Khan, But little has been written of his chain of command.
Khen is also of Turkish origin, although there is not a word in English that adequately conveys the meaning. Roughly translated, it means “One who will do the impossible while appearing unprepared and complaining constantly." Phu Khen was one of ten Khens that headed the divisions or groups of hordes as they were known, of the Mongol Army serving under Genghis Khan. His abilities came to light during the Mongols' raids on the Turkistan city of Bohicaroo. Bohicans were fierce warriors and the city was well fortified. The entire city was protected by huge walls and the hordes were at a standoff with the Bohicans. Bohicaroo was well stocked and it would have been difficult to wait them out. Genghis Khan assembled his Khens and ordered each of them to develop a plan for penetrating the defenses of Bohicaroo.
Operation Achieve Victory, "AV", was born. All 10 divisions of Khens submitted their plan. After reviewing AV plans 1 through 7 and finding them unworkable or ridiculous, Genghis Khan was understandably upset. It was with much perspiration that Phu Khen submitted his idea, which came to be known as AV 8. Upon seeing AV 8, Genghis was convinced this was the perfect plan and gave immediate approval. The plan was beautifully simple.
Phu Khen would arm his hordes to the teeth, load them into catapults and hurl them over the wall. The losses were expected to be high, but hey, hordes were cheap. Those that survived the flight would engage the enemy in combat. Those that did not? Well, surely their flailing bodies would cause some damage. The plan worked and the Bohicans were defeated. From that day on, whenever the Mongol Army encountered an insurmountable enemy, Genghis Khan would give the order "Send some of the Phu Khen AV 8ers."
This is believed, though not by anyone outside our secret society, to be the true origin of the word Aviator. Phu Khen's AV8ers were understandably an unruly mob, not likely to be sociably acceptable. Many were heavy drinkers and insomniacs. However, when nothing else would do, you could always count on an AV8er. A Phu Khen Aviator, denied, perhaps rightfully so, his place in history, Phu Khen has been, nonetheless, immortalized in prose.
You hear mystical references, often hushed whispers, of "those Phu Khen Aviators." Do not let these things bother you. As with any secret society, we go largely misunderstood, prohibited by our apathy from explaining ourselves. You are expected to always live down to the reputation of the Phu Khen Aviator, a reputation cultivated for centuries, undaunted by scorn or ridicule, unhindered by progress. So drink up, be crude, sleep late, urinate in public and get the job done.
When others are offended, you can revel in the knowledge that YOU are a
PHU KHEN AVIATOR.
Aviators come from a secret society formed around a thousand years ago. They are warriors, and below is the proof. A little known fact is the origin of the word "aviator". Phu Khen (pronounced Foo Ken), 1169-? is considered by some to be the most under-recognized military officer in history. Many have never heard of his contributions to modern military warfare. The mission of this secret society is to bring honour to the name of Phu Khen. A Khen was a subordinate to a Khan in the military structure of the Mongol hordes. Khan is Turkish for leader. Most know of the great Genghis Khan, But little has been written of his chain of command.
Khen is also of Turkish origin, although there is not a word in English that adequately conveys the meaning. Roughly translated, it means “One who will do the impossible while appearing unprepared and complaining constantly." Phu Khen was one of ten Khens that headed the divisions or groups of hordes as they were known, of the Mongol Army serving under Genghis Khan. His abilities came to light during the Mongols' raids on the Turkistan city of Bohicaroo. Bohicans were fierce warriors and the city was well fortified. The entire city was protected by huge walls and the hordes were at a standoff with the Bohicans. Bohicaroo was well stocked and it would have been difficult to wait them out. Genghis Khan assembled his Khens and ordered each of them to develop a plan for penetrating the defenses of Bohicaroo.
Operation Achieve Victory, "AV", was born. All 10 divisions of Khens submitted their plan. After reviewing AV plans 1 through 7 and finding them unworkable or ridiculous, Genghis Khan was understandably upset. It was with much perspiration that Phu Khen submitted his idea, which came to be known as AV 8. Upon seeing AV 8, Genghis was convinced this was the perfect plan and gave immediate approval. The plan was beautifully simple.
Phu Khen would arm his hordes to the teeth, load them into catapults and hurl them over the wall. The losses were expected to be high, but hey, hordes were cheap. Those that survived the flight would engage the enemy in combat. Those that did not? Well, surely their flailing bodies would cause some damage. The plan worked and the Bohicans were defeated. From that day on, whenever the Mongol Army encountered an insurmountable enemy, Genghis Khan would give the order "Send some of the Phu Khen AV 8ers."
This is believed, though not by anyone outside our secret society, to be the true origin of the word Aviator. Phu Khen's AV8ers were understandably an unruly mob, not likely to be sociably acceptable. Many were heavy drinkers and insomniacs. However, when nothing else would do, you could always count on an AV8er. A Phu Khen Aviator, denied, perhaps rightfully so, his place in history, Phu Khen has been, nonetheless, immortalized in prose.
You hear mystical references, often hushed whispers, of "those Phu Khen Aviators." Do not let these things bother you. As with any secret society, we go largely misunderstood, prohibited by our apathy from explaining ourselves. You are expected to always live down to the reputation of the Phu Khen Aviator, a reputation cultivated for centuries, undaunted by scorn or ridicule, unhindered by progress. So drink up, be crude, sleep late, urinate in public and get the job done.
When others are offended, you can revel in the knowledge that YOU are a
PHU KHEN AVIATOR.
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Why does a JT get paid the same as an adminer despite having far more responsibility?
Because the bloody adminers set the pay rates.....
Job Evaluation
03.0203. JE is a well-established system used in both the private and public sectors as an objective means of assessing the weight of jobs. Measurement of job weight takes place against agreed criteria or ‘factors’. In the system used for the JE of military posts, each factor has a number of levels, which are assigned a numerical value, denoting the importance of that factor in relation to any given post. For ORs, a Whole Trade Score (WTS), which is the weighted average of a number of different jobs of the same rank/trade, is calculated. JE establishes a proper relativity between OR trades/branches in the 3 Services and provides the basis for comparison between job sizes in the Services and those in civilian life. JE evidence is used by the AFPRB to compare civilian salaries with Service salaries in the formulation of their recommendations for annual pay awards. The allocation of trades to ranges is subject to change. Current tables are shown at Annexes A-C.
03.0204. In order to provide consistent measurement of widely varying posts, the JE process breaks down in to 6 ‘factors’ that are assessed independently. The factors are:
03.0203. JE is a well-established system used in both the private and public sectors as an objective means of assessing the weight of jobs. Measurement of job weight takes place against agreed criteria or ‘factors’. In the system used for the JE of military posts, each factor has a number of levels, which are assigned a numerical value, denoting the importance of that factor in relation to any given post. For ORs, a Whole Trade Score (WTS), which is the weighted average of a number of different jobs of the same rank/trade, is calculated. JE establishes a proper relativity between OR trades/branches in the 3 Services and provides the basis for comparison between job sizes in the Services and those in civilian life. JE evidence is used by the AFPRB to compare civilian salaries with Service salaries in the formulation of their recommendations for annual pay awards. The allocation of trades to ranges is subject to change. Current tables are shown at Annexes A-C.
03.0204. In order to provide consistent measurement of widely varying posts, the JE process breaks down in to 6 ‘factors’ that are assessed independently. The factors are:
a. Knowledge, Skills and Experience: required to operate successfully in the post and the range of application within the organisation.
b. Complexity and mental challenge: reflects the difficulty of the problems facing the job holder (JH) and the degree they must think for themselves to which solutions must be developed from first principles.
c. Judgement and decision: required of the JH and the impact on the success of the organisation.
d. Use of resources: in terms of people, budgets, equipment and property and influence on the development and operation of the organisation.
e. Communication: the level at which the JH must communicate both within the organisation (i.e. the MOD and the Services) and outside and the significance to the whole of the organisation.
f. Working conditions: the degree to which the JH’s ability to perform is affected by location, environment or constraints on methods of working (because of, for example, volatility of materials, etc).
03.0205. JE is concerned with the job and not the JH and does not take account of the abilities of the individual except to assume a satisfactory performance by the JH. It is possible to measure by JE the extent to which a job demands knowledge, skills of analysis, responsibility and endurance of difficult conditions, but not such personal qualities as integrity, initiative and honesty. Whether or not the individual possesses qualities of this nature is irrelevant; the job remains the same. JE does not measure job loading – which is a management issue and should be reflected in the annual appraisal.
b. Complexity and mental challenge: reflects the difficulty of the problems facing the job holder (JH) and the degree they must think for themselves to which solutions must be developed from first principles.
c. Judgement and decision: required of the JH and the impact on the success of the organisation.
d. Use of resources: in terms of people, budgets, equipment and property and influence on the development and operation of the organisation.
e. Communication: the level at which the JH must communicate both within the organisation (i.e. the MOD and the Services) and outside and the significance to the whole of the organisation.
f. Working conditions: the degree to which the JH’s ability to perform is affected by location, environment or constraints on methods of working (because of, for example, volatility of materials, etc).
Last edited by Climebear; 16th Jun 2011 at 09:29.
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Flying pay is a great way to keep aircrew (read pilots but if you upset navs; read navs) in the Service by paying money equivalent to the civilian counterpart. The master stroke is its not pensionable.
Sadly, most of us just attended the odd funeral without thinking of money and counted our blessings.
Sadly, most of us just attended the odd funeral without thinking of money and counted our blessings.
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I have no problem with aircrew receiving flying pay when in a flying post. But why are they still receiving it when flying a desk (which is a whole lot safer).
If we are using danger as a factor, it makes you wonder why the boys on the ground being shot at and blown up don't receive something similar. Being thousands of feet up is surely safer than being 100m away? Just a thought....
If we are using danger as a factor, it makes you wonder why the boys on the ground being shot at and blown up don't receive something similar. Being thousands of feet up is surely safer than being 100m away? Just a thought....
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Daz,
Please re-read the thread, see my post above.
Flying pay is for retention of costly skills, NOT NOT NOT danger money.
There are a few misleading posts about funerals and shooting blunties on this thread that get unnecessarily emotive.
If I could I'd raise the Op bonus, especially for the lads out in the FOBs and PBs who are copping it, but that's a very different argument and pot.
TTH
Please re-read the thread, see my post above.
Flying pay is for retention of costly skills, NOT NOT NOT danger money.
There are a few misleading posts about funerals and shooting blunties on this thread that get unnecessarily emotive.
If I could I'd raise the Op bonus, especially for the lads out in the FOBs and PBs who are copping it, but that's a very different argument and pot.
TTH
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Junglydaz is probably having a little dark blue banter, but in case he isnt, he should try a NVG approach into a Afghan ****hole illuminated by tracer one night should he need to justify Flying Pay..
I think that aircrew in receipt of PAS should get flying pay as it is unfair to take it off them when most still fly. My 2$ FWIW!
Come back MGD, you are missed and if not; Good Luck with your new venture. A PVR on the day you receive PAS is a hard act to follow.
I think that aircrew in receipt of PAS should get flying pay as it is unfair to take it off them when most still fly. My 2$ FWIW!
Come back MGD, you are missed
and if not; Good Luck with your new venture. A PVR on the day you receive PAS is a hard act to follow.