Carrier Aviation = Cheapest
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Some nonsense being written on both sides of this argument. The sub and those on it make no decisions about when to fire or at what, that is a political decision, so the sub departing after firing a few missiles (the numbers quoted are wrong too!) is irrelevant.
However, the RN are not more productive because they can spend more time away under harmony, that would only be true if the RAF didn't complete defence tasks from their home bases (eg QRA, Air Transport and any other of the myriad tasks that they do without leaving the UK).
However, the RN are not more productive because they can spend more time away under harmony, that would only be true if the RAF didn't complete defence tasks from their home bases (eg QRA, Air Transport and any other of the myriad tasks that they do without leaving the UK).
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Some of you fellows want the Royal Navy to bring back Q-ships, so why not submarines with deck guns? Something for HMS Triumph to use against Somali pirate boats, don't you see?
Wikipedia says:
In March 2011, she participated in Operation Ellamy, firing Tomahawk cruise missiles on 19 March, 20 March and again on 24 March at Libyan air defence targets. Triumph returned to Devonport on 3 April 2011 flying a Jolly Roger adorned with six small Tomahawk axes to indicate the missiles fired by the submarine in the operation.
Compare to:
AGM-86B/C missiles increase flexibility in target selection. AGM-86B missiles can be air-launched in large numbers by the bomber force. B-52H bombers carry six AGM-86B or AGM-86C missiles on each of two externally mounted pylons and eight internally on a rotary launcher, giving the B-52H a maximum capacity of 20 missiles per aircraft.
Also, I think the P8 will be able to carry at least four, maybe six Tomahawks.
Seriously, I suggest that both the USN and the RN could conduct these neo-colonial gunboat operations much more economically if they used surface launched cruise missiles carried by just about any old surface ship -- or perhaps a new generation RN Q-ship!
Submarine launched cruise missiles are the most expensive variety. Six Tomahawks per round trip = a very weak argument for fission-powered submarines.
Wikipedia says:
In March 2011, she participated in Operation Ellamy, firing Tomahawk cruise missiles on 19 March, 20 March and again on 24 March at Libyan air defence targets. Triumph returned to Devonport on 3 April 2011 flying a Jolly Roger adorned with six small Tomahawk axes to indicate the missiles fired by the submarine in the operation.
Compare to:
AGM-86B/C missiles increase flexibility in target selection. AGM-86B missiles can be air-launched in large numbers by the bomber force. B-52H bombers carry six AGM-86B or AGM-86C missiles on each of two externally mounted pylons and eight internally on a rotary launcher, giving the B-52H a maximum capacity of 20 missiles per aircraft.
Also, I think the P8 will be able to carry at least four, maybe six Tomahawks.
Seriously, I suggest that both the USN and the RN could conduct these neo-colonial gunboat operations much more economically if they used surface launched cruise missiles carried by just about any old surface ship -- or perhaps a new generation RN Q-ship!
Submarine launched cruise missiles are the most expensive variety. Six Tomahawks per round trip = a very weak argument for fission-powered submarines.
"I'm not complaining that the RN is doing too much but that the RAF is obviously doing too little in comparison."
From a personal take, every time Main Building does a remembrance day event, I am always struck that those with the most medals on their chests do appear to be from the RAF.
All three services are incredibly busy, and everyone is working at a pace that would have been considered unlikely even 10 years ago. Engaging in interservice arguments about who works 27 hours a day down t'pit doesnt achieve much, but does go a long way to look incredibly childish, particularly when we consider that regulars and reservists from all 3 services, and the MOD CS, are forward deployed across some deeply unpleasant parts of the globe, and working in arduous and challenging conditions away from home.
From a personal take, every time Main Building does a remembrance day event, I am always struck that those with the most medals on their chests do appear to be from the RAF.
All three services are incredibly busy, and everyone is working at a pace that would have been considered unlikely even 10 years ago. Engaging in interservice arguments about who works 27 hours a day down t'pit doesnt achieve much, but does go a long way to look incredibly childish, particularly when we consider that regulars and reservists from all 3 services, and the MOD CS, are forward deployed across some deeply unpleasant parts of the globe, and working in arduous and challenging conditions away from home.
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Jimlad
"Engaging in interservice arguments about who works 27 hours a day down t'pit doesnt achieve much, but does go a long way to look incredibly childish"
"From a personal take, every time Main Building does a remembrance day event, I am always struck that those with the most medals on their chests do appear to be from the RAF. "
Yes, it does.
But since we are at it, it's the Royal Marines that always have the most medals, and they are part of the RN.
"Engaging in interservice arguments about who works 27 hours a day down t'pit doesnt achieve much, but does go a long way to look incredibly childish"
"From a personal take, every time Main Building does a remembrance day event, I am always struck that those with the most medals on their chests do appear to be from the RAF. "
Yes, it does.
But since we are at it, it's the Royal Marines that always have the most medals, and they are part of the RN.
THS et al
It would appear that Triumph has returned from a second period of the Libyan coast.
In between Triumph’s two deployments to the Mediterranean, her sister boat HMS Turbulent stood guard off Libya, although she was not required to launch any Tomahawks.
It isn't just TLAM they provide, but valuable ISTAR capabilities.
As for Turbulent, she's doing a ten month deployment.
It would appear that Triumph has returned from a second period of the Libyan coast.
In between Triumph’s two deployments to the Mediterranean, her sister boat HMS Turbulent stood guard off Libya, although she was not required to launch any Tomahawks.
It isn't just TLAM they provide, but valuable ISTAR capabilities.
As for Turbulent, she's doing a ten month deployment.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 21st Jun 2011 at 16:12.
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WEBF, perhaps you would care to deal with my post #75, where I tried to keep the thread on track. You could always start another one on the cost of Submarines or the hard working nature of Matelots.
