Polish Spitfire Pilots
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Czech Rep
I’m not sure if you intend to pass through the Czech Rep, but there is a really great bar there dedicated to the Czech Spitfire sqns, lots of original memorabilia, including a cockpit that they put drunken crew into to sleep off the effects of wind-down beers! WingsClub Prague Welcome! . Stay clear of the Slivovitz (slip-in-the-ditch).
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If you need any language help for your trip to Poland you can contact me. I am native polish speaker and native of Warsaw. I don't think there are many WWII fighter pilots alive and well enough any more though. Very few show up for parades and national holidays these days (on average the elderly in Poland are of much worse helth then in UK for many reasons).
I think it would make the news if you flew to Krakow and visited Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego in there ( they have Spitfire LF Mk.XVIE there, as well as only surviving P-11c in the world).
I think it would make the news if you flew to Krakow and visited Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego in there ( they have Spitfire LF Mk.XVIE there, as well as only surviving P-11c in the world).
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JXC
I know this Idea might sound daft, but why not pop in to Deblin ?
You said that one of the points of the visit to Poland is a mark of respect to the Polish pilots.
From 1928 onwards all Polish fighting pilots were trained at this Military Academy. After fall of Poland the pilots and instructors from Dęblin continuing to train the air force personnel in Polish Flight Training Schools in the West, among others in Hucknall and Newton.
Deblin is famous for this throughout Poland (apart from this academy its a hole unfortunately...), so everyone would "get it" if you were to fly there in a 9/10 Spitfire so to speak.
Think of it this way - This place is the one thing that links all the Polish pilots together - in Battle of Britain, before it and beyond. My dad right now is flying Mi-17's in Afghanistan, is 53 years old, hates the politicians etc. but the one place he always recalls with fondness is being an "Eaglet" hopping about in a piston powered Mi-1 in Deblin back in 1980 - I'm sure many o the "repat plaease !" lads had similar memories/longings of hopping about in their PWS-26's in late 1930's too.
Heres a link to the Academys official website, but best have a Google fly-about if it raises your interest:
O Uczelni
I know this Idea might sound daft, but why not pop in to Deblin ?
You said that one of the points of the visit to Poland is a mark of respect to the Polish pilots.
From 1928 onwards all Polish fighting pilots were trained at this Military Academy. After fall of Poland the pilots and instructors from Dęblin continuing to train the air force personnel in Polish Flight Training Schools in the West, among others in Hucknall and Newton.
Deblin is famous for this throughout Poland (apart from this academy its a hole unfortunately...), so everyone would "get it" if you were to fly there in a 9/10 Spitfire so to speak.
Think of it this way - This place is the one thing that links all the Polish pilots together - in Battle of Britain, before it and beyond. My dad right now is flying Mi-17's in Afghanistan, is 53 years old, hates the politicians etc. but the one place he always recalls with fondness is being an "Eaglet" hopping about in a piston powered Mi-1 in Deblin back in 1980 - I'm sure many o the "repat plaease !" lads had similar memories/longings of hopping about in their PWS-26's in late 1930's too.
Heres a link to the Academys official website, but best have a Google fly-about if it raises your interest:
O Uczelni
jxc, thank you for this thread and good luck on your intended tribute to those brave men.
Chuck-ski, thank you for the links to those Polish web-sites and for the reminder that not all Polish Aircrew were in Fighter Command. As a very wet behind the ears Hastings Co-Pilot I was posted to 48 Squadron, RAF Changi, 1963/66. One of the navigators there was a larger than life Pole, Victor Fontes. Victor had been a cavalry officer when the Nazis invaded and overran his homeland. Somehow he survived charging German tanks for a living and, with a great many other Polish troops, escaped south via Romania to the Black Sea. There they embarked on troopships to hazard the Mediterranean Sea to Gibraltar and thence to France where they disembarked just in time for the fall of that country. Once again Victor legged it south, this time over the Pyrenees into Franco's Spain. Caught and arrested he ended up in a Spanish Concentration camp, escaped and kept on heading south until he got across the border to Gibraltar. Eager to avenge his lost country and comrades he volunteered to join the British effort against Germany. When told that there were no vacancies for cavalry officers and that Bomber Command was the only large scale offensive effort against that nation he immediately opted to be trained as a BC pilot.
Somehow Victor went on defying the enormous odds pitted against him and survived. Like many other Polish volunteers in UK Forces he did not feel safe returning to communist post war Poland, and the RAF became his home, albeit he was obliged to retrain as a navigator in order to stay flying.
I've always felt honoured to have served with Poles such as Victor, as well as Czechs etc. All now long gone but always remembered. We let the Poles down badly at the end of the war, where they did not even feature in the Victory Parade. Any tribute paid now is worth it. A remarkable people!
Chuck-ski, thank you for the links to those Polish web-sites and for the reminder that not all Polish Aircrew were in Fighter Command. As a very wet behind the ears Hastings Co-Pilot I was posted to 48 Squadron, RAF Changi, 1963/66. One of the navigators there was a larger than life Pole, Victor Fontes. Victor had been a cavalry officer when the Nazis invaded and overran his homeland. Somehow he survived charging German tanks for a living and, with a great many other Polish troops, escaped south via Romania to the Black Sea. There they embarked on troopships to hazard the Mediterranean Sea to Gibraltar and thence to France where they disembarked just in time for the fall of that country. Once again Victor legged it south, this time over the Pyrenees into Franco's Spain. Caught and arrested he ended up in a Spanish Concentration camp, escaped and kept on heading south until he got across the border to Gibraltar. Eager to avenge his lost country and comrades he volunteered to join the British effort against Germany. When told that there were no vacancies for cavalry officers and that Bomber Command was the only large scale offensive effort against that nation he immediately opted to be trained as a BC pilot.
Somehow Victor went on defying the enormous odds pitted against him and survived. Like many other Polish volunteers in UK Forces he did not feel safe returning to communist post war Poland, and the RAF became his home, albeit he was obliged to retrain as a navigator in order to stay flying.
I've always felt honoured to have served with Poles such as Victor, as well as Czechs etc. All now long gone but always remembered. We let the Poles down badly at the end of the war, where they did not even feature in the Victory Parade. Any tribute paid now is worth it. A remarkable people!
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I've just looked through the Polish websites and recognised a family friend who flew Wellingtons (including a channel ditching) and survived the war. He subsequently moved on to ferrying anything that flew and from anywhere to anywhere. Amazing man who is now 96 and still very much with us. I know he has a large collection of memorabilia/log books etc as well as a Polish version of the VC.
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> as well as a Polish version of the VC
Virtuti Militari
Virtuti Militari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Virtuti Militari
Virtuti Militari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I recall attending the RAF 75th Anniversary Commemoration at Marham in 1993. The rain on that auspicious day was well up to Asian monsoon standards; such a relief, therefore, to be seated for lunch in the hangar designated for the purpose (super lunch for c3,000 heads, well done the Chef).
The then Mrs HB & myself found ourselves seated with a wonderful group of Polish aircrew who saw service in the War of the Austrian Housepainter. These extremely game old boys were most courteous, and introduced themselves with names that resembled the bottom line of my Optician's eye test chart. They then proceeded to flirt with my wife in the most outrageous fashion; I diverted myself from this spectacle by tucking into the wine course.
I enquired of the gentleman opposite me as to the aircraft he operated during the war, and he said that he flew in Wellingtons. Cursed as I am with a propensity for banter & repartee, the inevitable & much hackneyed line "I bet they kept your feet dry" was actually half-way out of my mouth before I was able to apply the brakes; a fake coughing fit worthy of an Oscar was then generated in order to provide a smokescreen for my inability to control the brain/mouth interface.
Jolly (but wet) day out had by all; I had billed this event to my good lady, in advance, that I was whisking her away on a private jet for a romantic lunch. This was true, as St Athan (my location) chartered a Manx Airlines BAe146 for the day. When she became aware of the reality however, my stock fell somewhat. Maybe that's why she's the ex-Mrs HB.............
The then Mrs HB & myself found ourselves seated with a wonderful group of Polish aircrew who saw service in the War of the Austrian Housepainter. These extremely game old boys were most courteous, and introduced themselves with names that resembled the bottom line of my Optician's eye test chart. They then proceeded to flirt with my wife in the most outrageous fashion; I diverted myself from this spectacle by tucking into the wine course.
I enquired of the gentleman opposite me as to the aircraft he operated during the war, and he said that he flew in Wellingtons. Cursed as I am with a propensity for banter & repartee, the inevitable & much hackneyed line "I bet they kept your feet dry" was actually half-way out of my mouth before I was able to apply the brakes; a fake coughing fit worthy of an Oscar was then generated in order to provide a smokescreen for my inability to control the brain/mouth interface.
Jolly (but wet) day out had by all; I had billed this event to my good lady, in advance, that I was whisking her away on a private jet for a romantic lunch. This was true, as St Athan (my location) chartered a Manx Airlines BAe146 for the day. When she became aware of the reality however, my stock fell somewhat. Maybe that's why she's the ex-Mrs HB.............
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It might be worth contacting the CO of the Grangemouth Air Training Corps squadron.
For several years they did lot of research into the Polish, Czech and other forign pilots who trained at the RAF Grangemouth Spitfire OCU during the war. They set up a rather unusual war memorial to the memory of the astonishingly large number who were killed in training accidents. The accident rate was truly horrendous by modern standards and comparable to the loss rate of many operational squadrons in combat.
A couple of years ago they held a formal unveiling ceremony at which were invited a number of surviving Polish and Czech) graduates of that Spitfire OCU. The cadets also visited Poland (or was it Czech Republic? I can't remember) to meet the survivors and some widows of those who did not survive the war.
I'm sure he'll be able to give you a very useful briefing.
For several years they did lot of research into the Polish, Czech and other forign pilots who trained at the RAF Grangemouth Spitfire OCU during the war. They set up a rather unusual war memorial to the memory of the astonishingly large number who were killed in training accidents. The accident rate was truly horrendous by modern standards and comparable to the loss rate of many operational squadrons in combat.
A couple of years ago they held a formal unveiling ceremony at which were invited a number of surviving Polish and Czech) graduates of that Spitfire OCU. The cadets also visited Poland (or was it Czech Republic? I can't remember) to meet the survivors and some widows of those who did not survive the war.
I'm sure he'll be able to give you a very useful briefing.
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Thanks Azrael229. Googled Virtuti Militari and found him on the list of holders of this award.
He has related so many of his exploits once suitably supplied with a decent whisky of two.
He has related so many of his exploits once suitably supplied with a decent whisky of two.
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Hopefully this might help - I spoke today with someone involved in research with the Sikorsky Institute - to find out info on Polish servicemen you need to contact the MOD firstly - the contact details are on the PISM website (PISM Home) - Archive Family research
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While the service is free to family, everyone else has to pay a fee!
