RAF establishment level early 60s
Nuther A2
In Sept 68 3 of our Hercs accompanied 20 Sqn Hunters from Tengah to Kai Tak via Labuan and Clark in the Phillipines. Each leg was roughly the same length. Not wishing to challenge your memory but I wonder whether 60 or 64 would have used the same route if they had deployed to HK?
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Nutter, around that time I recall the Hunters at Kai Tak flying to Singapore. They did a 1050 mile leg to Labuan and thence to Singapore. A Canberra from 45 or 81 acted as shepherd.
PS, My post crossed with Brian's. Just checked the distance and found the KaiTak-Lab route at a shade over 1000nm so the only issue with the flat iron would have been diversions and island holding fuel.
The Clark route would have been considerably safer but there must have been political reasons for the direct flight.
PS, My post crossed with Brian's. Just checked the distance and found the KaiTak-Lab route at a shade over 1000nm so the only issue with the flat iron would have been diversions and island holding fuel.
The Clark route would have been considerably safer but there must have been political reasons for the direct flight.
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When did Comets come into service? I seem to recall, as a child, my family being offered an indulgence flight back to the UK from Luqa in a Comet in 1963 - unless that was parents playing a 'mind game'! I also seem to recall the white-painted Vulcans still roaring overhead our school well into the 60s.
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Gerontocat, I believe the white Vulcans would have disappeared by the end of 1964 with the possible exception of the Mk 1s at the OCU which were by then non-operational. Alison may recall that if she picks this up.
I recall one day in mid-64 returning to Coningsby in an Anson in the usual summer clag and finding the airfield quite easily as there were a number of white triangles around. Later that day, returning on a second trip, I had great difficulty finding the place as the white ones had all flown.
I recall one day in mid-64 returning to Coningsby in an Anson in the usual summer clag and finding the airfield quite easily as there were a number of white triangles around. Later that day, returning on a second trip, I had great difficulty finding the place as the white ones had all flown.
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I wonder whether 60 or 64 would have used the same route if they had deployed to HK?
Without the wing tanks we had to stage through Kuching to get to Labuan for our "confrontation" border patrols; Clark was way out of our range capabilities. My logbook shows that my first flight direct from Tengah to Labuan was on 10 April 1964, IIRC we hadn't any 9Rs until shortly before that date.
With the drop tanks fitted the aircraft was speed (350KIAS?) and G limited but it did at least fly a bit longer & further.
Nuther, something obviously convinced me that the Javelins of 60 squadron were, under whatever reasoning, at Kai Tak on 1st April 1963, like everything else I'm quite prepared to be corrected by those who were actually there at the time. Indeed, my kneejerk response was to record that they were at Tengah. But, in the words of Laurence Naismith, in the film Jason of the Argonauts, something made me put them there instead?!
Best Regards,
FB
PS, I'll make all corrections by the time it goes into print, should that be the case!
Best Regards,
FB
PS, I'll make all corrections by the time it goes into print, should that be the case!
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Pontius, thank you. We left Malta in July 64, and the island gained independence in September - so that would fit in with my memories of the Vulcans overhead the school and I suppose the withdrawal of V-force would have gone hand-in-hand with the declaration of independence.
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Finningley was the home to 18 Sqn with Valiants in the ECM role until they disbanded on 31 Mar 63. The Valiant soldiered on for a short while with other units until they were binned because of wing spar fatigure
Finningley also had 2 white B1 Vulcans when I was posted there in April 65 XA 900 and 901?? and stayed operational for about a year after that.
I think that one of them was flown to Scampton where it was broken up in about 69 or 70. I was posted to Scampton in 68 and can remember thinking why on earth aren't they preserving it.
However, in early 1965, the Wilson government with Denis Healey as Secretary of State for Defence decided that the expense of the repairs could not be justified and the fleet was permanently grounded as of 26 January 1965. The QRA alert that had been in place for SACEUR was maintained until the final grounding and was then allowed to lapse.[22]
On 9 December 1964, the last Valiant tanker sortie involved refuelling Lightning aircraft over the North Sea. On the same day, the last Valiant bomber sortie was carried out, using XD818
On 9 December 1964, the last Valiant tanker sortie involved refuelling Lightning aircraft over the North Sea. On the same day, the last Valiant bomber sortie was carried out, using XD818
I think that one of them was flown to Scampton where it was broken up in about 69 or 70. I was posted to Scampton in 68 and can remember thinking why on earth aren't they preserving it.
Last edited by sisemen; 16th May 2011 at 08:15. Reason: more recollections about the demise of the white Vulcans
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Gerontocat, your white Vulcans in Malta was something else. Every year one squadron would detach to Malta for two months on an Exercise called SUNSPOT, aptly named.
They had their own purpose built dispersal. Unlike the UK where the aircraft were dispersed around the airfield. In Malta lack of space dictated they used just one flight line.
They deployed with operational targetting material and were self-sufficient for the whole time. I believe the Valiants used to hold this task and were based there as part of Musketeer and later for Kuwait.
On Google Earth you can see a Herc parked there. The next disperal with hangars is new. To the north east of that were 13/39. I believe the Shacks were parked on what is now the end of the main runway which used to be the short runway. Finally the Lightnings would be parked on the northern disperal alongside the runway. Going southeast down what is now the main runway the first hardstanding was the civil terminal. The extension and new terminal are more recent and post-independence.
They had their own purpose built dispersal. Unlike the UK where the aircraft were dispersed around the airfield. In Malta lack of space dictated they used just one flight line.
They deployed with operational targetting material and were self-sufficient for the whole time. I believe the Valiants used to hold this task and were based there as part of Musketeer and later for Kuwait.
On Google Earth you can see a Herc parked there. The next disperal with hangars is new. To the north east of that were 13/39. I believe the Shacks were parked on what is now the end of the main runway which used to be the short runway. Finally the Lightnings would be parked on the northern disperal alongside the runway. Going southeast down what is now the main runway the first hardstanding was the civil terminal. The extension and new terminal are more recent and post-independence.
RAF AT to/from the Med 1967
On the same subject of Comets to/from Malta, I was posted to RAF Akrotiri in the summer of 67. Being a steely eyed attack pilot I obviously was ace at navigation. I calculated that my means of transport, a Britannia of 99 Sqn, would take about 4 hrs to Akrotiri.
After 5 hrs I began to wonder. Finally, after I think 7.5 hrs, we reached Akrotiri. Later, to my amazment, I discovered that Cyprus was just off the Lebanon and not next to Sicily.
Just as well I was looked after by navigators for the next few years!
After 5 hrs I began to wonder. Finally, after I think 7.5 hrs, we reached Akrotiri. Later, to my amazment, I discovered that Cyprus was just off the Lebanon and not next to Sicily.
Just as well I was looked after by navigators for the next few years!
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Finningley also had 2 white B1 Vulcans when I was posted there in April 65 XA 900 and 901?? and stayed operational for about a year after that.
There were some Valiants not issued to Bomber Command and these had particularly low hours. They were on the books of the RRE. One, IIRC, had less than 100 hours and the other around 127. It was hoped that these could be kept operating and fatigue checks were carried out which gave them a clean bill of health until 'one last rivet' was removed to check and there was the dreaded fatigue cracks. The spars suffered fatigue from the moment they were cast never having even flown. Their alloy composition became crystaline.
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"Going southeast down what is now the main runway the first hardstanding was the civil terminal. The extension and new terminal are more recent and post-independence."
The runway extension to the new airport was the result of joining up the old Safi strip to the main runway at Luqa and was done certainly post-1976 and, I believe, after the final pull-out of HMF from the Island.
The runway extension to the new airport was the result of joining up the old Safi strip to the main runway at Luqa and was done certainly post-1976 and, I believe, after the final pull-out of HMF from the Island.
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PN,
Yes indeed the Valiant squadrons filled the Sunspot role before the Vulcan.
Though they were for a period of 6 weeks not 2 months.
I did a Sunspot in Sept/Oct 1959 with 214 Sqdn. We had converted to Tankers and were carrying out the proving trials. Someone had forgotten to take us off the roster! When it was pointed out to Command/Group that we had bomb bays full of HDU, we were told that we had to go anyway as it was too late to ready a different squadron.
It was during that Sunspot that we lost XD869. Never did a detachment have such a 'mood swing'. The rest of the trip was really miserable.
See: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...am-1959-a.html
As for Valiant's surviving the scrapping of 1965. One of 214's a/c, XD816, spent a lot of time at Boscome Down being the 1st a/c to be fitted with an HDU. as a result it spent a lot of time in the hangar and had very low flying hours. This a/c took part in the fly past at the closing of Bomber Command.
Yes indeed the Valiant squadrons filled the Sunspot role before the Vulcan.
Though they were for a period of 6 weeks not 2 months.
I did a Sunspot in Sept/Oct 1959 with 214 Sqdn. We had converted to Tankers and were carrying out the proving trials. Someone had forgotten to take us off the roster! When it was pointed out to Command/Group that we had bomb bays full of HDU, we were told that we had to go anyway as it was too late to ready a different squadron.
It was during that Sunspot that we lost XD869. Never did a detachment have such a 'mood swing'. The rest of the trip was really miserable.
See: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...am-1959-a.html
As for Valiant's surviving the scrapping of 1965. One of 214's a/c, XD816, spent a lot of time at Boscome Down being the 1st a/c to be fitted with an HDU. as a result it spent a lot of time in the hangar and had very low flying hours. This a/c took part in the fly past at the closing of Bomber Command.
RAF AT to/from the Med 1967
On the same subject of Comets to/from Malta, I was posted to RAF Akrotiri in the summer of 67. Being a steely eyed attack pilot I obviously was ace at navigation. I calculated that my means of transport, a Britannia of 99 Sqn, would take about 4 hrs to Akrotiri.
After 5 hrs I began to wonder. Finally, after I think 7.5 hrs, we reached Akrotiri. Later, to my amazment, I discovered that Cyprus was just off the Lebanon and not next to Sicily.
On the same subject of Comets to/from Malta, I was posted to RAF Akrotiri in the summer of 67. Being a steely eyed attack pilot I obviously was ace at navigation. I calculated that my means of transport, a Britannia of 99 Sqn, would take about 4 hrs to Akrotiri.
After 5 hrs I began to wonder. Finally, after I think 7.5 hrs, we reached Akrotiri. Later, to my amazment, I discovered that Cyprus was just off the Lebanon and not next to Sicily.
I would have broken the LYN - AKR 5 hour barrier in a Britannia had it not been for a Lightening blocking the Akrotiri runway due to blown tyres. Having enjoyed a massive tailwind all the way we had to hold for 45 minutes while they removed the Lightening.
Valiants in Malta
This was taken in April 1958.
Last edited by brakedwell; 16th May 2011 at 15:06. Reason: Added quote facility
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Definitely not BCDU Pontious. I was on that unit and the only aircraft that we had was XA 907 a B1A. I think they were on 230 OCU strength.