Ground Ejection Paramenters with Canopy Position
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Ground Ejection Paramenters with Canopy Position
Odd question probably, but can crew eject on ground/deck with canopy raised?
Maybe depend on aircraft/seat, or maybe no seats are capable of this and expect crew to jump out using legs rather than seat.
John
Maybe depend on aircraft/seat, or maybe no seats are capable of this and expect crew to jump out using legs rather than seat.
John
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I thought someone may ask this , but did not want to put this video in first post in case thread went off at tangent.
Video is of fire on landing. Crew sit for a time in a/c with canopy closed (sensible - nice and dry in there, plus less fire and can eject if have to). Then he/she opens canopy to egress - I was just wondering if all went to hell and felt need to go ASAP whilst canopy in transit can you eject? A very unlikely scenario I admit and am a little embarrassed now to have asked it.
John
Video is of fire on landing. Crew sit for a time in a/c with canopy closed (sensible - nice and dry in there, plus less fire and can eject if have to). Then he/she opens canopy to egress - I was just wondering if all went to hell and felt need to go ASAP whilst canopy in transit can you eject? A very unlikely scenario I admit and am a little embarrassed now to have asked it.
John
Last edited by rjtjrt; 19th Apr 2011 at 06:25. Reason: Spelling
Don't be embarrassed - it's a good question!!
I've never been 'trapped' and know little about carrier ops. Perhaps the SOP with a fire on deck is that the pilot has to shut everything off, make the seat safe and then egress. The fire seems to have been brought under control pretty swiftly and it's likely the pilot was in comms with FLYCO. Just leaving with the engines running and loads of fuel still pumping poses serious risks for the entire ship and its crew (remember Oriskany about 1967 {and there was another one too}).
There'll be some very experienced naval aviator along with the real story soon!
Old Duffer
I've never been 'trapped' and know little about carrier ops. Perhaps the SOP with a fire on deck is that the pilot has to shut everything off, make the seat safe and then egress. The fire seems to have been brought under control pretty swiftly and it's likely the pilot was in comms with FLYCO. Just leaving with the engines running and loads of fuel still pumping poses serious risks for the entire ship and its crew (remember Oriskany about 1967 {and there was another one too}).
There'll be some very experienced naval aviator along with the real story soon!
Old Duffer
Ground (Zero-zero) ejection is an option for many aircraft fitted with ejection seats- BUT only with the canopy closed. Note: Many- not all aircraft with ejection seats are 0-0 capable.
Ejection with the canopy open (or even unlocked) is not an option- Not that I would want to make anyway.
Most "systems" demand that the canopy is down and locked for the MDC (Canopy shattering explosive) to become "live" or for the rocket assist canopy jettison system to become "live" and the interface may even stop you from trying to eject. With canopy open it would effectively "disarm" both the above systems and would also potentially put the canopy frame in the ejection path and cause issues if you tried to eject with the frame in the way.
You will notice that most SOP require a visor down when lowering the canopy incase a short circuit, static or a gremlin gets into the canopy removal system and fires it. Ton of **** when it does go either by MDC or rocket.
If the canopy is open the chances are that you are : 1- On the ground, 2- going quite slowly- so as previously said- just jump out and roll away
Video showed correct proceedure for crew to sit, switch off all and wait. If it had got a lot worse then ejection was still an option (as long as canopy was closed and locked.
Ejection with the canopy open (or even unlocked) is not an option- Not that I would want to make anyway.
Most "systems" demand that the canopy is down and locked for the MDC (Canopy shattering explosive) to become "live" or for the rocket assist canopy jettison system to become "live" and the interface may even stop you from trying to eject. With canopy open it would effectively "disarm" both the above systems and would also potentially put the canopy frame in the ejection path and cause issues if you tried to eject with the frame in the way.
You will notice that most SOP require a visor down when lowering the canopy incase a short circuit, static or a gremlin gets into the canopy removal system and fires it. Ton of **** when it does go either by MDC or rocket.
If the canopy is open the chances are that you are : 1- On the ground, 2- going quite slowly- so as previously said- just jump out and roll away
Video showed correct proceedure for crew to sit, switch off all and wait. If it had got a lot worse then ejection was still an option (as long as canopy was closed and locked.
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In the dim and distant past I remember that it was possible to fly a JP 3 or 4 (not the 5) with the canopy open - up to 180 kts IAS. I can't remember if this would have prevented the canopy from being jettisoned in the event of having to eject but having the solid frame of the canopy directly above one's head was a strong psycological deterrent not to pull the handle!
I only flew with the canopy open a couple of times - the novelty soon wore off - to get some fresh air on a sunny day when it cooled the cockpit and as part of a noxious fumes drill. I also had concerns that the slipstream might accidentally "extract" the top handle, with un-intended consequences!
Happy days!
MB
I only flew with the canopy open a couple of times - the novelty soon wore off - to get some fresh air on a sunny day when it cooled the cockpit and as part of a noxious fumes drill. I also had concerns that the slipstream might accidentally "extract" the top handle, with un-intended consequences!
Happy days!
MB
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Only know a Tonka system with any detail. The canopy wont go anywhere if open, and the MDC will only operate if the seat moves while the canopy is still there, so the seat would fire into the open canopy, no the best idea!
Whilst the OP asks specifically about raised canopies what was the case for those with sliding canopies. For example the Bucc. Did the canopy slide far enough back so that the GIBs seat would have clearance to eject or did the aircraft seat not have a 0/0 capability.
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Firing thru a conopy slid back is fraught with danger, the seat or a body part (knees thighs head) could impact on the frame. Result would not be good.
Canopy would have to be closed and locked for a good result.
Canopy would have to be closed and locked for a good result.
Gentleman Aviator
In the dim and distant past I remember that it was possible to fly a JP 3 or 4 (not the 5) with the canopy open
'Twas a hot day so he decided we would fly a couple of circuits with the canopy open. Cue startled inquiry from ATC:
ATC: C/S .... is your canopy open?
KT: Stand by - we'll check ... [2 more circuits go by] ..... yes it is!
Edited to add:
Have checked Vol 1 of logbook - think it was in JP4 XP 665 on ....
... 5th August .....1969
1. The Bucc2 did have 0/0 capability, though I doubt the looker could eject with it open. No interlocks to prevent him trying, though.
2. There was the Vixen looker who managed to fire his seat when he was standing on it, facing backwards, doing his pre-flight checks, with the hatch open. The seat caught the top (front) edge of the hatch and ripped it off its mountings; both seat and hatch sailed over the side into the sea. The looker went a fair way up before descending onto the stub wing and was a bit damaged, but eventually returned to flying duties.
2. There was the Vixen looker who managed to fire his seat when he was standing on it, facing backwards, doing his pre-flight checks, with the hatch open. The seat caught the top (front) edge of the hatch and ripped it off its mountings; both seat and hatch sailed over the side into the sea. The looker went a fair way up before descending onto the stub wing and was a bit damaged, but eventually returned to flying duties.
TTH,
Ken Tait and Charles Ruston were in XV345 on 7 Feb 80. You're right, it was the 'Flag Buc'. Seems amazing it's over 31 years ago - how time flies and accelerates with the years!!
O-D
Ken Tait and Charles Ruston were in XV345 on 7 Feb 80. You're right, it was the 'Flag Buc'. Seems amazing it's over 31 years ago - how time flies and accelerates with the years!!
O-D
Gentleman Aviator
Thank you O-D - Ken also taught me real low flying
.... and I've another good dit from when he was Red 10 - about 72-73 time???
But another time for that.
.... and I've another good dit from when he was Red 10 - about 72-73 time???
But another time for that.
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I was on the red flag when Ken and rusty were so tragically lost, I was but a young SAC at the time and TBH the tragedy of what happened that day never struck me until I returned to Laarbruch and the subsequent memorial ceremony.
The Navigator would never have cleared the canopy whilst open, but with it closed the MDC would have (and did) take care of that particular issue.
D.McG
Old Duffer were you on XV when the accident happened?
The Navigator would never have cleared the canopy whilst open, but with it closed the MDC would have (and did) take care of that particular issue.
D.McG
Old Duffer were you on XV when the accident happened?
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A XIII squadron armourer managed to fire the Nav's (GIF BTW!) in a PR9 while he was standing on it doing checks of seat pan pull force. Did some interesting aeros and landed in the bundu, substantially uninjured.
The PR9 (GIF) didnt have a 0-0 seat. It was a modified Mk 4. It was only good for 0(feet)@ 90 Knots. But still a good capable seat.
Last edited by jimgriff; 19th Apr 2011 at 12:09. Reason: to add more text
No, Matkat, I wasn't on 15 at the time of the accident; just know a little bit about these things from around the bazaars!
My only 'association' with the squadron was 1974 when I saved the 'MacRoberts Reply' painting from being consigned to the rubbish tip, when when it was found at RAF Upwood. Arranged for it to go back to the squadron. Squadron Commander didn't even have the courtesy to says 'thank you' - rude ><&!!! I should have kept it and flogged it - but then I were brought up proper like.
O-D
My only 'association' with the squadron was 1974 when I saved the 'MacRoberts Reply' painting from being consigned to the rubbish tip, when when it was found at RAF Upwood. Arranged for it to go back to the squadron. Squadron Commander didn't even have the courtesy to says 'thank you' - rude ><&!!! I should have kept it and flogged it - but then I were brought up proper like.
O-D
