British Aviation in Belize??
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British aviation in Belize
Don't forget that besides the VC-10's there were Belfast and C-130 flights in and out of Belize on a constant basis.
The Belfast was the only aircraft at the time (1971-76) capable of carrying the required helicopter and Harrier aircraft without necessitating a long "put it together" time.
I spent a detachment in Belize dropping pallets of supplies to the (I think) the Ghurkas. The moral of that story is if the pallets contain breeze blocks, do not weigh them and then leave them in the rain before putting them in the back of the Herc - but that is another story.
The Belfast was the only aircraft at the time (1971-76) capable of carrying the required helicopter and Harrier aircraft without necessitating a long "put it together" time.
I spent a detachment in Belize dropping pallets of supplies to the (I think) the Ghurkas. The moral of that story is if the pallets contain breeze blocks, do not weigh them and then leave them in the rain before putting them in the back of the Herc - but that is another story.
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I worked for Redcoat Cargo Airlines who had the MOD contract to re-supply BZE weekly using Britannia or CL-44 aircraft in approx '79 - '81. We routed LYE (or BZZ) - YHZ - BZE. Every other week be had a MOD backload, but on alternate weeks, ferried up to US or Canada to pick up a commercial load. It was on one of these trips a Britannia crashed after iceing up on T/O ex BOS. Unfortunately there were 2 MOD family members "hitching a ride home", who were killed in the crash.
We also brought back all the equipment use to film "Dog of War", shot on location in Belize.
We also brought back all the equipment use to film "Dog of War", shot on location in Belize.
Belize was occasionally visited by Benson-based Argosies doing Caribbean trainers - the once-in-a-tour good deal. I got mine in November 1968.
Later on, Belize became a VC10 destination once the Britannias were withdrawn from service. As others have pointed out, the runway width and lack of a parallel taxiway made it less than ideal for the 10, and I have taken my turn at hanging out the front pax door helping talk the pilots round. When MOD increased the Dulles schedule frequency to twice a week, this made it possible to run a 'Dulles Slip.' That, too, has been mentioned, but it did also mean that crews had a few days layover in the US, even sometimes downtown!
An earlier post dealt with what was, I think, the first Harrier deployment in 1972. In early July 1977, further Guatemalan trouble was brewing, and it was decided to beef-up the Harrier presence - the tricky bit being that HMG wanted this operation to be well underway before our Ambassador at the UN made a statement saying we were doing it. All involved at Wittering, Brize and Lyneham had, as I recall, less than 24 hours notice. The UN angle imposed a need for secrecy that did not sit well with the practicalities of positioning slip crews and servicing personnel for both VC10s and C130s at a time when comms with handling companies were in the clear on OFTS. However, all went well - two 10s did the positioning flights the next day, the operation got underway, with the main VC10 task being to carry palletised CBUs and ammunition for the Harriers. Inevitably, most other tasks were cancelled to free-up aircraft for the operation - but I remember vividly that two were not. One was in the full Royal fit, to take HM The Queen out to the Army's Silver Jubilee Review at Sennelager, with another in normal VIP fit for the Army Board and miscellaneous Army generals. When these got back to Brize, they were immediately stripped down to the basic freight configuration and pressed into service - ditto the crews. All in a few days' work - the Ambassador duly made his statement saying that reinforcement was underway, and whatever Guatemalan action had been anticipated was apparently forestalled.
Later on, Belize became a VC10 destination once the Britannias were withdrawn from service. As others have pointed out, the runway width and lack of a parallel taxiway made it less than ideal for the 10, and I have taken my turn at hanging out the front pax door helping talk the pilots round. When MOD increased the Dulles schedule frequency to twice a week, this made it possible to run a 'Dulles Slip.' That, too, has been mentioned, but it did also mean that crews had a few days layover in the US, even sometimes downtown!
An earlier post dealt with what was, I think, the first Harrier deployment in 1972. In early July 1977, further Guatemalan trouble was brewing, and it was decided to beef-up the Harrier presence - the tricky bit being that HMG wanted this operation to be well underway before our Ambassador at the UN made a statement saying we were doing it. All involved at Wittering, Brize and Lyneham had, as I recall, less than 24 hours notice. The UN angle imposed a need for secrecy that did not sit well with the practicalities of positioning slip crews and servicing personnel for both VC10s and C130s at a time when comms with handling companies were in the clear on OFTS. However, all went well - two 10s did the positioning flights the next day, the operation got underway, with the main VC10 task being to carry palletised CBUs and ammunition for the Harriers. Inevitably, most other tasks were cancelled to free-up aircraft for the operation - but I remember vividly that two were not. One was in the full Royal fit, to take HM The Queen out to the Army's Silver Jubilee Review at Sennelager, with another in normal VIP fit for the Army Board and miscellaneous Army generals. When these got back to Brize, they were immediately stripped down to the basic freight configuration and pressed into service - ditto the crews. All in a few days' work - the Ambassador duly made his statement saying that reinforcement was underway, and whatever Guatemalan action had been anticipated was apparently forestalled.
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It was in Jan 1972 that the Guats threatened to over-run British Honduras (now Belize). The British govt deployed troops to repel them and an airlift using Hercs and VC10s was set up. Belize City airport (more an airfield) could not take more than a Herc in those days so the troops were were flown in all types of AT ac to Nassau and then the Herc flew them into Belize. Nassau-Belize was 3 hours each way. A nice day's work with the T/R. The only let down aid was a NDB which, in a storm, became unrelible so it was mostly the Mk 1 eyeball to get us in.
Don't forget that besides the VC-10's there were Belfast and C-130 flights in and out of Belize on a constant basis.
We operated from a Romney Hut opposite the then Fire station.
There were no Harriers in 1972 or for the first few months of 1973.
653 AAC Sioux Flight took over from 663 AAC Sqn Sioux Flight about mid 1973.
Last edited by MReyn24050; 21st Mar 2011 at 16:00.
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Gentlemen,
Many thanks for all the posts. Im surprised there has been as much as interest as this!
The aim is to document the good work done out here while also highlighting the eh 'benefits' of a caribbean posting. So more dits please!
Thanks again,
Red
Many thanks for all the posts. Im surprised there has been as much as interest as this!
The aim is to document the good work done out here while also highlighting the eh 'benefits' of a caribbean posting. So more dits please!
Thanks again,
Red
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Christmas 1972– Belize.
Date and Time:- Three days before Christmas Day 1972.
Location:- Airport Camp Belize.
Unit:- Sioux Flight Detachment 663 Squadron AAC.
A tasking had been received for a Santa Sortie to fly Father Christmas to a Children’s Party at Bird Island in Belize City. Time of take-off 1500 hours. 1500 hours arrived but no Santa. At 1530 hours a car arrived with a Santa who had been having a little too much Christmas spirit. So whilst the Sioux was started and run up to operating temp Santa was told to sit on an oil drum and wait and we would then take him to the aircraft and strap him in. This was in the days when our hangar was the Romney Hut across on the airport side of the runway near the river. Before many minutes we had several young kids standing watching Father Christmas with large bright eyes only to witness Santa loosing his beard to the exclamation of “Sod this mother-of-f******” beard. We soon whisked him off strapped him in and off to charm other kids at the party.
Date and Time:- Three days before Christmas Day 1972.
Location:- Airport Camp Belize.
Unit:- Sioux Flight Detachment 663 Squadron AAC.
A tasking had been received for a Santa Sortie to fly Father Christmas to a Children’s Party at Bird Island in Belize City. Time of take-off 1500 hours. 1500 hours arrived but no Santa. At 1530 hours a car arrived with a Santa who had been having a little too much Christmas spirit. So whilst the Sioux was started and run up to operating temp Santa was told to sit on an oil drum and wait and we would then take him to the aircraft and strap him in. This was in the days when our hangar was the Romney Hut across on the airport side of the runway near the river. Before many minutes we had several young kids standing watching Father Christmas with large bright eyes only to witness Santa loosing his beard to the exclamation of “Sod this mother-of-f******” beard. We soon whisked him off strapped him in and off to charm other kids at the party.
The first Harrier detachment began in November 75, when 1(F) Sqn flew 6 aircraft out there. That detachment lasted only about 6 months, as the threat was deemed to have subsided. However, the whole operation was hastily repeated in 77, but then lasted much longer. It again began with 1(F), but the Germany squadrons (3(F) and IV(AC)) joined in to share the load from 78 onwards.
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If he's not already here in some guise, try reading Jerry Pook's book on Hunter / Harrier days ( not the Falklands one for these purposes, sadly I forget the title but a good book, remarkable workload the author mostly endured ! )
which has some interesting insight into both work and play at Belize...
Right, I've found the book where Jerry Pook gives some very interesting insights into Belize, regarding both operations ( inc' dodging an oncoming hurricane ) and what to me sounds the rather dubious local pleasures and practices...
'Flying Freestyle', Jerry Pook. No I'm not his agent, and he has some nasty things to say about Harriers, but despite that it's very interesting, his workload was literally criminal if with a 'normal' employer, how he put up with it for so long is a mystery which should be subject of a medical investigation !
Back to Belize, a Harrier Test Pilot I had the pleasure of working with had a few tales of his tour/s there, including the crabs ( real not slang ) all over the runways bursting tyres, and one day he was wazzing along in his GR3 when he felt something chew a lump out of his head; fearing the worst, ie something venemous, he quickly took off his helmet and adopted 'lost radio' procedure, expecting to flake out any moment...
The culprit turned out to be a Stag Beetle, and on administering a fire extinguisher to the squadron's lids, all sorts of creepy crawlies emerged.
which has some interesting insight into both work and play at Belize...
Right, I've found the book where Jerry Pook gives some very interesting insights into Belize, regarding both operations ( inc' dodging an oncoming hurricane ) and what to me sounds the rather dubious local pleasures and practices...
'Flying Freestyle', Jerry Pook. No I'm not his agent, and he has some nasty things to say about Harriers, but despite that it's very interesting, his workload was literally criminal if with a 'normal' employer, how he put up with it for so long is a mystery which should be subject of a medical investigation !
Back to Belize, a Harrier Test Pilot I had the pleasure of working with had a few tales of his tour/s there, including the crabs ( real not slang ) all over the runways bursting tyres, and one day he was wazzing along in his GR3 when he felt something chew a lump out of his head; fearing the worst, ie something venemous, he quickly took off his helmet and adopted 'lost radio' procedure, expecting to flake out any moment...
The culprit turned out to be a Stag Beetle, and on administering a fire extinguisher to the squadron's lids, all sorts of creepy crawlies emerged.
Last edited by Double Zero; 24th Mar 2011 at 10:13.
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pumas in belize
Morning, (or afternoon depending on how you see it)
I was wondering if you had any info on the puma crash that happened out here. Sad to say but no one out here seems to know much about it at all.
I would greatly appreciate anything that you would care to talk about, needless to say there is very little info on what we have done in Belize.
Many thanks in advance,
Red,
I was wondering if you had any info on the puma crash that happened out here. Sad to say but no one out here seems to know much about it at all.
I would greatly appreciate anything that you would care to talk about, needless to say there is very little info on what we have done in Belize.
Many thanks in advance,
Red,
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I think it was 1985 when I was there as an 'Iggy Airways' mover. The Queen rocked up in a BA Tristar for a visit, with just two working engines upon landing. BA very embarrassed and so positioned a Concorde to Miami - just in case. Obviously if it was tight for a 'Ten' to turn, you can imagine that a Concorde was never gonna make it.
The fix? Send a Herk through Miami to pick up a tow bar, warn off the REME to get their 'wrecker' ready with the intention of pushing the Concorde backwards down the runway and onto the ramp - should it be needed.
Needless to say the BA engineers made good the dodgy engine, helped by a very nice set of cabin crew providing the liquid refreshments.
Professionally, I was amazed to see an Adidas sports bag with newly fashioned string handles with a 'HM the Queen' baggage label on it. I also had a run in with XV109 and a baggage truck, but that was just bad luck as I seem to remember.........
The fix? Send a Herk through Miami to pick up a tow bar, warn off the REME to get their 'wrecker' ready with the intention of pushing the Concorde backwards down the runway and onto the ramp - should it be needed.
Needless to say the BA engineers made good the dodgy engine, helped by a very nice set of cabin crew providing the liquid refreshments.
Professionally, I was amazed to see an Adidas sports bag with newly fashioned string handles with a 'HM the Queen' baggage label on it. I also had a run in with XV109 and a baggage truck, but that was just bad luck as I seem to remember.........
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xenolith..............
Nah... Rauls hadn't been invented then....in my day it was the Big C (Mk1) and when that burnt down the Big C (Mk II). I remember on my return home whilst sitting down watching the TV with the kids and missus, a live report came on the TV from - would you believe it - the Big C (Mk II) in Belize (!) with the 'madam' denying it was a brothel but just a discotheque!! How I got away with the subsequent family enquiry I will never know!.........mmmmmmmm 
I was also in Chads (next to the down town fire station) when the building next door and Chads (I believe) burnt down and the fire brigade went the wrong way down the road (because it was one-way!) and remember the lingering aroma of the fire fighters standing in the 'sweet water' canal firing high pressure turds into the fires!! Happy days.......Christ! you couldn't make this up! 
I was also in Chads (next to the down town fire station) when the building next door and Chads (I believe) burnt down and the fire brigade went the wrong way down the road (because it was one-way!) and remember the lingering aroma of the fire fighters standing in the 'sweet water' canal firing high pressure turds into the fires!! Happy days.......Christ! you couldn't make this up!
Last edited by Dundiggin'; 2nd May 2011 at 20:35.
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Did four tours out there as a crewman on Pumas - and yes, all the stories about the Swamp are true; including the moustachioed ones blowing the doors off and the Sheriff being spotted the next morning looking for evidence of explosives amongst the 'weeds' in the front garden! Reference the sad Puma crash at Salamanca there is another thread running which contains some good info. Also remember there being a case of champagne for the first VC10 captain to make the first exit of the runway without back-tracking...despite some gutsy attempts I believe it remained unclaimed, although a few MiDs for making the second exit with style. Oh, and there was the SAR call out that resulted in a night landing at village in pre-NVG days to collect woman with complications in childbirth that ended up with junior making his arrival in the back of my cab at about 2000 feet en-route to the hospital!
Red, sadly all my photos are in storage at present but PM me if you want any more background dits.
Red, sadly all my photos are in storage at present but PM me if you want any more background dits.
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Ziggy911
Hi Red_Phos
I did 2 tours back to back 1985-1986 as a techie on 1563flt Pumas. Might have a few decent photos I could email you, whats your dead-line cos I will have to dig them out.
I have 1 great image of the squad with the Puma behind us, taken in Mexico City on the pan by a news paper journo, as we attended the mexico earthquake and on arrival we were told to sit on our bums for about 10 days as the authorities thought the down wash from a Puma was to much for the damaged buildings.
1 x image of a hovering Puma while we gave it a wheel change on one of the cayes (caulker or chapel can't remember, too long ago and too many memories).
Some images of the Puma that decided to go for a swim in the swamp water (tail rotor broke)
maybe a few others, drop me a line and I will fish them out.
I did 2 tours back to back 1985-1986 as a techie on 1563flt Pumas. Might have a few decent photos I could email you, whats your dead-line cos I will have to dig them out.
I have 1 great image of the squad with the Puma behind us, taken in Mexico City on the pan by a news paper journo, as we attended the mexico earthquake and on arrival we were told to sit on our bums for about 10 days as the authorities thought the down wash from a Puma was to much for the damaged buildings.
1 x image of a hovering Puma while we gave it a wheel change on one of the cayes (caulker or chapel can't remember, too long ago and too many memories).
Some images of the Puma that decided to go for a swim in the swamp water (tail rotor broke)
maybe a few others, drop me a line and I will fish them out.
The fatal 230 Sqn Puma crash involving an officer and NCO of the Queen's Own Highlanders and six RAF personnel was in Aug 1976, some info here:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...-memorial.html
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...-memorial.html
'Some images of the Puma that decided to go for a swim in the swamp water (tail rotor broke)'
I was the pilot on that flight! Scary experience when the glue fixing the honeycomb to the leading edge came unstuck in the heat. Loads of vibration and not much time to land. Dark Menace was the crewman (now a civvy rotary pilot). Seem to remember (or not) the time in the swamp afterwards!
I was the pilot on that flight! Scary experience when the glue fixing the honeycomb to the leading edge came unstuck in the heat. Loads of vibration and not much time to land. Dark Menace was the crewman (now a civvy rotary pilot). Seem to remember (or not) the time in the swamp afterwards!
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Hi Oldbeefer
Do you remember Paddy Payne who was taking a left seat jolly on that trip?
And how about us poor sods who spent the next few days with a sinking Puma, Chocking & Lifting, Chocking & Lifting, Chocking & Lifting (ad nauseum ) and repairing the tail so it could be flown out.
Was it you who took her back out ?
Oh they really were such marvelous times.
Tried to attach an image, but can't suss the tech.
Regards
Ziggy911
Do you remember Paddy Payne who was taking a left seat jolly on that trip?
And how about us poor sods who spent the next few days with a sinking Puma, Chocking & Lifting, Chocking & Lifting, Chocking & Lifting (ad nauseum ) and repairing the tail so it could be flown out.
Was it you who took her back out ?
Oh they really were such marvelous times.
Tried to attach an image, but can't suss the tech.
Regards
Ziggy911
Hi Ziggy - yes, I certainly do. First trip in a Puma for a Harrier techy (if I remember right). I was really impressed with the guys (both RAF and the pongos) who built the raft for the Puma to rest on and then did a battle damage repair job. Must say, I was a bit spooked when I saw how much cracking there was around the tail pylon. Yes, I flew her out - seemed only fair as I stuck her there! Had a great six months in Belize on that det.
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Come on then Airborne Aircrew...........
OK matey I'll bite the bullet! - let's have a look at this transgender!! 
I may be horrified now but at the time I felt certain I had compensated with sufficient alcohol....
Mind you I may have to do some more compensating if it really was that bad 
! .............mmmmmmmmmm!
I may be horrified now but at the time I felt certain I had compensated with sufficient alcohol.... Mind you I may have to do some more compensating if it really was that bad ! .............mmmmmmmmmm!