Valley Chopees
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Valley Chopees
Valley studes were told that they would be selected for potential redundancy on the strength of their flying aptitude, performance and OQs. So how come all the studes on 19 sqn got the heave-ho except 1 creamy and 1 abbo. Methinks the intention is to stop 19 Sqn T1 flying asap. Anyone know a good employment lawyer?
Perhaps an explanation of the terms `creamy ,and `abbo` might be in order....
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To 'The 19 of 19':
I am truely sorry that the RAF you joined in good faith, has come to this. The only consolation I might offer, is that you ALL have proven yourselves in a very hard field of endeavour, which has been cut short by non of your own making. You're all young, and have the skills to rise well above the 'great un-washed' in anything you choose to do next. All the very best for the future, whatever it might bring.
Advo
I am truely sorry that the RAF you joined in good faith, has come to this. The only consolation I might offer, is that you ALL have proven yourselves in a very hard field of endeavour, which has been cut short by non of your own making. You're all young, and have the skills to rise well above the 'great un-washed' in anything you choose to do next. All the very best for the future, whatever it might bring.
Advo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps an explanation of the terms `creamy ,and `abbo` might be in order....
Abbo: Common name for an "Ab Initio" (Latin for "From Scratch") pilot.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slight amendement:
There were 4 studes on the sqn but who had not started the course. 3 of them survived. Let's hope they pass the course otherwise OCU slots could go empty while some of the guys who had just about finished the course (ie not a training risk) are waiting in Gatwick departures for their flight to FTE Jerez.
Which solicitor did the pregnant sackees use?
There were 4 studes on the sqn but who had not started the course. 3 of them survived. Let's hope they pass the course otherwise OCU slots could go empty while some of the guys who had just about finished the course (ie not a training risk) are waiting in Gatwick departures for their flight to FTE Jerez.
Which solicitor did the pregnant sackees use?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chaps,
Another Angle, is how do we think the Instructors Feel? Having spent several years as a Valley Instructor, I can tell you that this kind of 'Forced' Chop Board must be the sh1ttiest job they have ever had to do. Trust me, they will be hating the very thought of the process.
The 'powers' do need to understand, the fundamental undercutting of trust which is happening here. It Will come back to bite, as sure as: 'Nurses and Teachers in a free bus'....... (But I bet they are banned too now)
Advo
Another Angle, is how do we think the Instructors Feel? Having spent several years as a Valley Instructor, I can tell you that this kind of 'Forced' Chop Board must be the sh1ttiest job they have ever had to do. Trust me, they will be hating the very thought of the process.
The 'powers' do need to understand, the fundamental undercutting of trust which is happening here. It Will come back to bite, as sure as: 'Nurses and Teachers in a free bus'....... (But I bet they are banned too now)
Advo
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Midlands
Age: 84
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Solicitor
This gentleman used to be a well regarded military specialist, mainly courts martial defences. He may not be the best man for employment cases but he might be a starting point.
Gilbert Blades | UK Lawyers & Solicitors in Lincoln - Gilbert Blades
Gilbert Blades | UK Lawyers & Solicitors in Lincoln - Gilbert Blades
Join Date: May 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blades
His daughter runs the practice last I heard a few years ago and still in Lincoln.
Very hard to get any wrongful dismissal as they are cutting numbers and the redundancy packages are substantially more than civvy street also the MoD does still have a lot of exemptions from EU employment laws, I looked at things from another angle in 2007.
Very hard to get any wrongful dismissal as they are cutting numbers and the redundancy packages are substantially more than civvy street also the MoD does still have a lot of exemptions from EU employment laws, I looked at things from another angle in 2007.
10enggone has it right. Feel free to give your money to a solicitor, they'll make all the right noises up front while they take your cash ('cause you ain't going to find a no-win, no-fee on this one).
Wake up and smell the coffee - look at the terms that people in civvy street get when they lose their jobs after less than 3 years with their employer!
Wake up and smell the coffee - look at the terms that people in civvy street get when they lose their jobs after less than 3 years with their employer!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hiq et Ubique
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another Angle, is how do we think the Instructors Feel? Having spent several years as a Valley Instructor, I can tell you that this kind of 'Forced' Chop Board must be the sh1ttiest job they have ever had to do. Trust me, they will be hating the very thought of the process.
Its a cr@p state of affairs which we have no control of, and I have just lost some quality mates to the chop process. I am a VERY lucky guy to slip ahead of the axe and into a 'stable' role, but please don't expect me to feel sorry for a guy on full flying pay with a job at the end of it.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: In a bush, a very bushy bush
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boo flippin' hoo......... my heart bleeds for them
Wow, thats quite a harsh response to a well intentioned post.
Nothing wrong with advo's post really, the process to chop these fine fellows will/has happened, end of story. That said, there are always those with the unenviable job to select the choppees. The very same students they were teaching weeks before and forming professional relationships with.
The front-line requests numbers to fill holes and the QHI reports which guys make the grade and get the job. The rest are chopped. Its the way it always has been.
Not quite...All of those being chopped have made the grade, many have surpassed the grade by some margin. The grade has been unfairly changed IMHO. They are simply victims of a niaive Labour government and an immoral and criminal financial industry.
To all of those who have been affected by the recent decisions, please accept my heartfelt and sincere best wishes for the future. Good luck to you all.
PCMM
Wow, thats quite a harsh response to a well intentioned post.
Nothing wrong with advo's post really, the process to chop these fine fellows will/has happened, end of story. That said, there are always those with the unenviable job to select the choppees. The very same students they were teaching weeks before and forming professional relationships with.
The front-line requests numbers to fill holes and the QHI reports which guys make the grade and get the job. The rest are chopped. Its the way it always has been.
Not quite...All of those being chopped have made the grade, many have surpassed the grade by some margin. The grade has been unfairly changed IMHO. They are simply victims of a niaive Labour government and an immoral and criminal financial industry.
To all of those who have been affected by the recent decisions, please accept my heartfelt and sincere best wishes for the future. Good luck to you all.
PCMM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: home: United Kingdom
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst Mad Boom's comments may have been a bit harsh, I suspect that, currently, he has little sympathy with a number of pilots at Valley that, whilst they have a ****ty job, they have a job!
I do feel for the folks that are having to chop individuals that they would have been happy to have on their sqn in the near future.
Duncs
I do feel for the folks that are having to chop individuals that they would have been happy to have on their sqn in the near future.
Duncs
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MAD Boom,
You will fit right in in this new Air Force. It certainly isn't the same one I joined and I have been totally ashamed to be part of this process. The bottom line is that the system devised is neither fair to the individual, nor is it in the best economic sense to the organisation. But some of us did argue these points and lost. A lot of talent and commitment has been squandered and if you think that hasn't affected the instructor cadre or the seniors then you are wrong.
Also, please do not make the mistake of thinking our jobs are any more secure; fewer students = fewer instructors, even a man of your talents can understand that equation. Good luck with your 'stable' role, when you grow up a little you will realise that there is no such thing in this organisation. Politicians have the loyalty of a Frenchman and our lords and masters in high office are little better...
The only people my heart bleeds for is the young men and women (pilot AND WSO students) who have had their dreams irrevocably shattered and their commitment and loyalty to the RAF shoved square in their face.
As a former squadron commander of mine once remarked, "Look after yourself mate, 'coz sure as hell no-one else will" never has this rung more true.
You will fit right in in this new Air Force. It certainly isn't the same one I joined and I have been totally ashamed to be part of this process. The bottom line is that the system devised is neither fair to the individual, nor is it in the best economic sense to the organisation. But some of us did argue these points and lost. A lot of talent and commitment has been squandered and if you think that hasn't affected the instructor cadre or the seniors then you are wrong.
Also, please do not make the mistake of thinking our jobs are any more secure; fewer students = fewer instructors, even a man of your talents can understand that equation. Good luck with your 'stable' role, when you grow up a little you will realise that there is no such thing in this organisation. Politicians have the loyalty of a Frenchman and our lords and masters in high office are little better...
The only people my heart bleeds for is the young men and women (pilot AND WSO students) who have had their dreams irrevocably shattered and their commitment and loyalty to the RAF shoved square in their face.
As a former squadron commander of mine once remarked, "Look after yourself mate, 'coz sure as hell no-one else will" never has this rung more true.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hiq et Ubique
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, hands up, I admit it may have been a little harsh. I am angry, and vented despite my better judgement.
I stand by what I said though in that I will not feel sorry for someone who still has a job, no matter how rubbish they may feel for having to see their guys chopped. I am 'grown up' enough to have been in a position to make some pretty harsh decisions; I have seen disappointment and despair on peoples' faces. However, it was my job. It's the guys without a job I feel for.
Fewer QFI posts as a result - agreed. However, with thousands of hours under their belts, instructor qualifications and a number of Op tours behind them, they are in a far better position to move on should they be given the bad news.
And I know how stable my job is. I have, and will continue to brace myself for impact as the results of the SDSR continue to unfold before us.
I stand by what I said though in that I will not feel sorry for someone who still has a job, no matter how rubbish they may feel for having to see their guys chopped. I am 'grown up' enough to have been in a position to make some pretty harsh decisions; I have seen disappointment and despair on peoples' faces. However, it was my job. It's the guys without a job I feel for.
Fewer QFI posts as a result - agreed. However, with thousands of hours under their belts, instructor qualifications and a number of Op tours behind them, they are in a far better position to move on should they be given the bad news.
And I know how stable my job is. I have, and will continue to brace myself for impact as the results of the SDSR continue to unfold before us.
Last edited by MAD Boom; 3rd Mar 2011 at 07:13. Reason: Spelling Mistake!
