RN Looking to buy an MPA
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RN Looking to buy an MPA
In the last Sunday Times there was apparently an article speculating on the fact that the RN is looking to buy its own MPA. Although I can understand why, in that they would want something to protect their SSBN,s but at a budget of £1Bn where on earth would the funding come from.
Why would it be £1Bn anyway, as force of say 6 CN235MPA,s would come in way way below that.
Why would it be £1Bn anyway, as force of say 6 CN235MPA,s would come in way way below that.
If they want it, then clearly given the SofS recent pronouncements then they'd have to cut other things from the budget to an equivelant value of the forecast through life costs. MCMVs, a Type 23 or 2, CHF??
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I doubt whether the Secretary of Savings in Defence would even bother to read such a proposal. He would never get it past a PM who is more left wing than T Bliar and appears to be as effective as the fraud from Fife.
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Between the cascade of letters to the Telegraph et al during, and particularly since, the SDSR process, in addition to announcements like this one lead me to only one conclusion.
The RN surely doesn't get it. The penny has not dropped, and their upper echelons don't seem to have grasped the fact that not only is there no more money, but in fact other things are going to have to get the axe.
I know there is elements of politics, and horsetrading in this, and they feel the need to set out their stall, but they are seriously deluded if they think the treasury is going to part with £1Bn at any point in the near future.
The RN surely doesn't get it. The penny has not dropped, and their upper echelons don't seem to have grasped the fact that not only is there no more money, but in fact other things are going to have to get the axe.
I know there is elements of politics, and horsetrading in this, and they feel the need to set out their stall, but they are seriously deluded if they think the treasury is going to part with £1Bn at any point in the near future.
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Games!
I wonder how it feels for the RAF to have their own games played back at them??? That's what it is after all, rather than working together!
El Colonel!
El Colonel!
Of course, it's not just the cost of airframes which needs to be considered...
Crew training - if the RN wants to use 100% RN crews, they'll need to develop a sustainable pilot and rear crew training system of their own. That's EFT, BFT and AFT/type conversion, plus ongoing recurrent training. For rear crew mission specialists, the training requirement would probably be even more expensive - you can 'buy' civil pilots and convert them, but you cannot do the same thing with mission crew.
Maintenance - unless the RN manages to join someone else's aircraft maintenance organisation, there's the cost of an approved type maintenance programme to consider.
Infrastructure - the RN will need a method of tasking, supporting and analysing all sensor products from whichever aircraft system they choose. Then the cost of disseminating the intelligence to the end-user.
Just a few issues. But good luck to the RN and I hope that they pull this off, no matter who flies and operates the aircraft. My gut feeling is that they are far more influential and creative than the oiks who run light blue these days, so have a pretty good chance of success...
Crew training - if the RN wants to use 100% RN crews, they'll need to develop a sustainable pilot and rear crew training system of their own. That's EFT, BFT and AFT/type conversion, plus ongoing recurrent training. For rear crew mission specialists, the training requirement would probably be even more expensive - you can 'buy' civil pilots and convert them, but you cannot do the same thing with mission crew.
Maintenance - unless the RN manages to join someone else's aircraft maintenance organisation, there's the cost of an approved type maintenance programme to consider.
Infrastructure - the RN will need a method of tasking, supporting and analysing all sensor products from whichever aircraft system they choose. Then the cost of disseminating the intelligence to the end-user.
Just a few issues. But good luck to the RN and I hope that they pull this off, no matter who flies and operates the aircraft. My gut feeling is that they are far more influential and creative than the oiks who run light blue these days, so have a pretty good chance of success...
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MGD -
yep, you kind of imagine the (short) conversation going like this:
Admiral chappy - "We intend to spend £1Bazillion on our own MPA, unlike Nimrod this one wil only cost £1Bn".
Government roach - "Ah, and where is this money coming from?"
Admiral - "We'll cancel HMS Mortgage and HMS Annual Bonus"
Roach - "Good, well cancel them, and instead of spending the gazillion you saved, put it into this envelope and send it to us instead".
Stunned Admiral, now minus 2 frigates, exits dejectedly, wincing as he hears...
"And don't forget to put a first class stamp on the envelope".
- I think, about now, somebody might be asking the navy where exactly it has managed to produce a billion quid from....
Dave
yep, you kind of imagine the (short) conversation going like this:
Admiral chappy - "We intend to spend £1Bazillion on our own MPA, unlike Nimrod this one wil only cost £1Bn".
Government roach - "Ah, and where is this money coming from?"
Admiral - "We'll cancel HMS Mortgage and HMS Annual Bonus"
Roach - "Good, well cancel them, and instead of spending the gazillion you saved, put it into this envelope and send it to us instead".
Stunned Admiral, now minus 2 frigates, exits dejectedly, wincing as he hears...
"And don't forget to put a first class stamp on the envelope".
- I think, about now, somebody might be asking the navy where exactly it has managed to produce a billion quid from....
Dave
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Beagle,
I imagine the 'infrastructure' probably still exists - maritime always worked hand in hand with the RN anyway, and the ops/int/acoustics side of RAF and RN have worked together since --- oooh, 1940 or so. Some of us spent as often deploying to ships and naval bases (in my case I am pleased to say 'for no more than a fortnight at a time*') as we did to RAF bases in support of maritime ops.
Dave
* The RN were always charming hosts, by the way, but there's just something about washing shirts in a tin pail when the ship has a perfectly serviceable laundry service that lets you know there's a sort of mindshift required that you are strangely unwilling to contemplate. Don't get me started on some of the navy's more esoteric habits....
I imagine the 'infrastructure' probably still exists - maritime always worked hand in hand with the RN anyway, and the ops/int/acoustics side of RAF and RN have worked together since --- oooh, 1940 or so. Some of us spent as often deploying to ships and naval bases (in my case I am pleased to say 'for no more than a fortnight at a time*') as we did to RAF bases in support of maritime ops.
Dave
* The RN were always charming hosts, by the way, but there's just something about washing shirts in a tin pail when the ship has a perfectly serviceable laundry service that lets you know there's a sort of mindshift required that you are strangely unwilling to contemplate. Don't get me started on some of the navy's more esoteric habits....
I imagine the 'infrastructure' probably still exists - maritime always worked hand in hand with the RN anyway, and the ops/int/acoustics side of RAF and RN have worked together since --- oooh, 1940 or so. Some of us spent as often deploying to ships and naval bases (in my case I am pleased to say 'for no more than a fortnight at a time*') as we did to RAF bases in support of maritime ops.
Not that I'm saying that it shouldn't.....
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Some of us spent as often deploying to ships and naval bases (in my case I am pleased to say 'for no more than a fortnight at a time*') as we did to RAF bases in support of maritime ops.
PS no apologies for the thread drift....all these Nimrod threads need to slowly drift away.............
The RN has fixed wing ASW. Two Swordfish aircraft at RNHF. Expand this, call it a squadron, build four more replica Stringbags, find the ASV in the Museum and voila a stealth ASW platform that will cost very little to run. Worked 70 years ago, why not now?
+I forgot...give it to BAE and have a billion pound overrun...and be ten years late.
+I forgot...give it to BAE and have a billion pound overrun...and be ten years late.
The RN has fixed wing ASW. Two Swordfish aircraft at RNHF. Expand this, call it a squadron, build four more replica Stringbags, find the ASV in the Museum and voila a stealth ASW platform that will cost very little to run. Worked 70 years ago, why not now?
+I forgot...give it to BAE and have a billion pound overrun...and be ten years late.
+I forgot...give it to BAE and have a billion pound overrun...and be ten years late.
