Quarter of RAF trainee pilots to be sacked
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It seems to me that the vast majority of contributors have missed the essential point.
In the event that these planned cuts are implemented it will be difficult to maintain even a semblance of Defence of the United Kingdom. Moreover, it will be well nigh impossible to implement an expansion scheme of any magnitude should the need arise.
In the event that these planned cuts are implemented it will be difficult to maintain even a semblance of Defence of the United Kingdom. Moreover, it will be well nigh impossible to implement an expansion scheme of any magnitude should the need arise.
Very sad to hear this - particularly for those who are so close to qualifying. No time for cutbacks is a good time, and given it's difficult enough to get the throughout of pilots right for future requirements, a drop in defence spending is always going to have a critical effect.
Given the government was taken to a Judicial Review over the arbitrary cancellation of schools building programmes, without taking into account the proximity of completion of some schools, cannot the RAeS do the same to at least allow those near training completion to finish their courses ?
It may save a few, but given we have way more Brigadiers than we need, and more Admirals we can shake a baton at, this reduction in pilots was inevitable. As aircraft numbers drop, so do pilot numbers and it's how it is managed that matters - and the one size type of decision seems illogical and therefore open to judicial review - but the RAF themselves could not instigate it.
Given the government was taken to a Judicial Review over the arbitrary cancellation of schools building programmes, without taking into account the proximity of completion of some schools, cannot the RAeS do the same to at least allow those near training completion to finish their courses ?
It may save a few, but given we have way more Brigadiers than we need, and more Admirals we can shake a baton at, this reduction in pilots was inevitable. As aircraft numbers drop, so do pilot numbers and it's how it is managed that matters - and the one size type of decision seems illogical and therefore open to judicial review - but the RAF themselves could not instigate it.
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Contributing as a somewhat cynical ex-pilot, I sympathise with those about to be forced into an early career move, I have to say that the next 20 years of the RAF, seen from Febuary 2011, cannot easily be described as a "dream" for anybody.
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I echo the condolences to all who have been and will be affected by this, probably the first of many such headlines that we will see over the coming months. The announcement of course was that the RAF would lose 5,000 by 2015. Marry this up with the 3,000 redundancies that have been announced, the normal outflow and reduced recruiting and even retaining 30,000 by 2015 looks unlikely.
I am reminded of a couple of lines from Kipling:
.....Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken;
And stoop and build 'em up again with worn-out tools.
So many of us are weary of building with worn out tools, many of which are almost beyond repair.
I am reminded of a couple of lines from Kipling:
.....Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken;
And stoop and build 'em up again with worn-out tools.
So many of us are weary of building with worn out tools, many of which are almost beyond repair.
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Dreadful news indeed for those concerned.
Those being made redundant, are they being offered alternative employment within the RAF? (or Navy/Army crossovers) - or is it a straight 'see ya'. In addition, are they keeping only those doing well on their respective courses or is there some pseudo-PC ability/ethnicity/gender selection going on?
Out of interest though, if the RAF is making these folk redundant, presumably they can't at the same time be seen to recruit. Ergo, do recruiting offices say 'don't bother' and have they wound the OASC (or whatever it's called now) down?
In addition, as some of this batch of enforced retirees could be assumed to have made Air rank over time - what is their redundancy payment going to be based on. I know some girls who left the Army post-pregnancy got huge payouts on the basis that they were doing well and would have made the top.
No doubt in a years time someone will decide the cuts were too deep and the system will have to spool up again at short notice....
Those being made redundant, are they being offered alternative employment within the RAF? (or Navy/Army crossovers) - or is it a straight 'see ya'. In addition, are they keeping only those doing well on their respective courses or is there some pseudo-PC ability/ethnicity/gender selection going on?
Out of interest though, if the RAF is making these folk redundant, presumably they can't at the same time be seen to recruit. Ergo, do recruiting offices say 'don't bother' and have they wound the OASC (or whatever it's called now) down?
In addition, as some of this batch of enforced retirees could be assumed to have made Air rank over time - what is their redundancy payment going to be based on. I know some girls who left the Army post-pregnancy got huge payouts on the basis that they were doing well and would have made the top.
No doubt in a years time someone will decide the cuts were too deep and the system will have to spool up again at short notice....
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There were no official briefs last week, just the usual 'We know nothing, we'll let you know as soon as we do'. So how did that one go then?
Briefings are taking place tomorrow, although at different times so we'll be relying on this place to find out if we still have jobs.
Have also just seen photos on Facespace of big news vans outside CHOM gates.
Briefings are taking place tomorrow, although at different times so we'll be relying on this place to find out if we still have jobs.
Have also just seen photos on Facespace of big news vans outside CHOM gates.
As Alistair Darling said in May 2010:
Message to new minister: ‘There’s no money – good luck!’
Message to new minister: ‘There’s no money – good luck!’
How long before we see Cameron on arrival at Northolt or Heathrow waving a document saying "Peace in our time" ?
Likewise, the Good Mr Osborne hasn't made any of the decisions on cutting pilots. He has informed the MOD of how much less they have to spend, and asked them to cut their cloth accordingly.
The blame for the cuts lies with the previous 'government', and it is the Senior Officers and CS who have decided where the axe will fall.
How does this compare with the number of Group Captains and Air Ranks?
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Maybe this is Cameron's way of getting recruits for his "Big Society"!
It's a crying shame for these young guys & gals to be treated so badly. Hopefully their spirit & character which got them through the selection procedure will stand them in good stead through the difficult weeks ahead.
It's a crying shame for these young guys & gals to be treated so badly. Hopefully their spirit & character which got them through the selection procedure will stand them in good stead through the difficult weeks ahead.
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Very Sad.
As an antepodean observer (ex Blue and player in finance) may I point out your govts, current and past have spent billions upon billions to support:
$250Trillion a year. $250,000 Billion a year.
Would $20B USD keep the squadrons alive? Thats less than 12 hours FX activity what about a wee bailout for the boys?
BBC NEWS | Business | UK banks receive £37bn bail-out
.
As an antepodean observer (ex Blue and player in finance) may I point out your govts, current and past have spent billions upon billions to support:
- "The City" (a Thatcher creation - f*ck maunufacturing just go with financial services);
- Billions bailing out banks after their high risk practices; and,
- Middle class welfare that will never be touched.
$250Trillion a year. $250,000 Billion a year.
Would $20B USD keep the squadrons alive? Thats less than 12 hours FX activity what about a wee bailout for the boys?
BBC NEWS | Business | UK banks receive £37bn bail-out
.
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Track costal i agree with the sentiment but with some elements in the city beleiving that the UK isn't Bank friendly and they should move to you're neck of the woods. I'd like to see their bluff called. But given how many eggs are in that basket can the govt risk it? The Conservitive and Nu Labour govts chose to run down industry to rely on financial and service sector to provide the company with its living . You in Australia having loads of natural resources that the Chinese want to feed their industrial economey.
Until we devlop another manufacturing base wether that be hight tech pharmacuticals or electronics but it looks like we've missed the boat on that one to with big names disappearing to the east!
Until we devlop another manufacturing base wether that be hight tech pharmacuticals or electronics but it looks like we've missed the boat on that one to with big names disappearing to the east!
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Contacted
The United States Senate and House of Representatives provide an "Upper House" of 100 Senators and a "Lower House" of 435 Representatives.
The United Kingdom House Of Lords has 736 voting Lords and the House of Commons has 646 MP's.
There are also Northern Ireland , Scottish and Welsh Assemblies - although not an English one.
If we got rid of a lot of the lifelong "Jobs for the Boys" in Parliament and reduced the numbers to the same as the USA there would be significant savings.
The United States Senate and House of Representatives provide an "Upper House" of 100 Senators and a "Lower House" of 435 Representatives.
The United Kingdom House Of Lords has 736 voting Lords and the House of Commons has 646 MP's.
There are also Northern Ireland , Scottish and Welsh Assemblies - although not an English one.
If we got rid of a lot of the lifelong "Jobs for the Boys" in Parliament and reduced the numbers to the same as the USA there would be significant savings.
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The blame for the cuts lies with the previous 'government',
Its a bloody disgrace and Ive yet to see anyone held accountable, it makes me sick to be British
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NURSE
The reply of
...is spot on. 10B is hours of FX. You are getting f*cked over.
You lose your military you lose your sovereignty. Viva La France eh?
I wrote a paper years ago on how effective the British 'bang for buck' was compared to our wastage. The British armed forces were a model.
Australian resources? We have managed to offshore all wealth and spend any pieces of Silver in the biggest property bubble in the history of the world.
The reply of
mancowboy
Easy to blame the last government, actually it was the banking and financial sectors who got us in this mess.....you know the same people who are STILL awarding themselves big bonus's while everyone else suffers.
Its a bloody disgrace and Ive yet to see anyone held accountable, it makes me sick to be British
Easy to blame the last government, actually it was the banking and financial sectors who got us in this mess.....you know the same people who are STILL awarding themselves big bonus's while everyone else suffers.
Its a bloody disgrace and Ive yet to see anyone held accountable, it makes me sick to be British
You lose your military you lose your sovereignty. Viva La France eh?
I wrote a paper years ago on how effective the British 'bang for buck' was compared to our wastage. The British armed forces were a model.
Australian resources? We have managed to offshore all wealth and spend any pieces of Silver in the biggest property bubble in the history of the world.
Firstly my condolences to the baby pilots..
A few thoughts:
Had a relly who was chief poster for a tour. Apparently the numbers game hasn't worked since the RAF was born, one way or the other, mainly due to training systems working on longer timescales than politics, and of course those pesky wars.
'Wars begin when you you will, but do not end when you please' Machiavelli.
It's happened before - a good friend of mine got laid off after Tac Weapons in the early '70s, spent a few years as an Estates Manager, then went on to a very successful career in commercial flying. I'm sure the 'get up and go' that got the current generation recruited won't desert them.
I expect some ruckus if the number of Air Officers doesn't drop though...One hat with scrambled egg per aeroplane?
A few thoughts:
Had a relly who was chief poster for a tour. Apparently the numbers game hasn't worked since the RAF was born, one way or the other, mainly due to training systems working on longer timescales than politics, and of course those pesky wars.
'Wars begin when you you will, but do not end when you please' Machiavelli.
It's happened before - a good friend of mine got laid off after Tac Weapons in the early '70s, spent a few years as an Estates Manager, then went on to a very successful career in commercial flying. I'm sure the 'get up and go' that got the current generation recruited won't desert them.
I expect some ruckus if the number of Air Officers doesn't drop though...One hat with scrambled egg per aeroplane?
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Nurse
I would say it's time that the Bank of England applied some "quantative easing" for the benefit of the RAF/FAA/AAC.
I joined the RAF as a baby pilot in 1979 and well remember the threatened cuts (in 1981) of the RAF being about to lose its Shacks, Canberras, Vulcans and at least a squadron of Hercs. It was not a time to be streamed into Group 2!
The Falkland War came in 1982 and Maggie found suddenly that she (and the country) needed us. When the war was over, she even did her best to plug the holes left by assets being deployed down south and we even bought 15 F4J's
to replace 23 sqn. Gawdon B didn't even order replacements for the combat losses in either Iraq or Afg, let alone allow for the increased rate of fatigue being consumed thus shortening the planned in-service lifetimes of C-130's (and other platforms).
The legacy of these cuts I fear will be it will forever deter people to ever aspire to join the armed forces - I have two sons at university and I am ever so glad that they are NOT in the armed forces and trying to follow my footsteps! Mind you, when I was thinking about joining the literature dished out by the Careers Info Offices was that we had 385 MRCA's or order, plus 200 Jaguars coming into service and that was in addition to the Phantoms, Harriers and Buccs!!
The dedication, commitment and serious application required to endure 4 years of training (possibly more with holding
) makes things even worse. I wonder where the governmant thinks it is going to get its future pilots from, not just for the frontline, but even contract providers for SAR(H) and MFTS will I expect be relying on a certain pool of ex-service aircrew, QFI's/QHI's etc. and at this rate that source may not be enough!
No prospective pilot will ever believe the recruitment officers again with expansive plans of cockpits waiting to be filled.
So short-sighted......my sympathies go to those who put so much in and now get so little out.
MB
I joined the RAF as a baby pilot in 1979 and well remember the threatened cuts (in 1981) of the RAF being about to lose its Shacks, Canberras, Vulcans and at least a squadron of Hercs. It was not a time to be streamed into Group 2!
The Falkland War came in 1982 and Maggie found suddenly that she (and the country) needed us. When the war was over, she even did her best to plug the holes left by assets being deployed down south and we even bought 15 F4J's
to replace 23 sqn. Gawdon B didn't even order replacements for the combat losses in either Iraq or Afg, let alone allow for the increased rate of fatigue being consumed thus shortening the planned in-service lifetimes of C-130's (and other platforms).The legacy of these cuts I fear will be it will forever deter people to ever aspire to join the armed forces - I have two sons at university and I am ever so glad that they are NOT in the armed forces and trying to follow my footsteps! Mind you, when I was thinking about joining the literature dished out by the Careers Info Offices was that we had 385 MRCA's or order, plus 200 Jaguars coming into service and that was in addition to the Phantoms, Harriers and Buccs!!
The dedication, commitment and serious application required to endure 4 years of training (possibly more with holding
) makes things even worse. I wonder where the governmant thinks it is going to get its future pilots from, not just for the frontline, but even contract providers for SAR(H) and MFTS will I expect be relying on a certain pool of ex-service aircrew, QFI's/QHI's etc. and at this rate that source may not be enough!No prospective pilot will ever believe the recruitment officers again with expansive plans of cockpits waiting to be filled.
So short-sighted......my sympathies go to those who put so much in and now get so little out.
MB
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Getting out of the nonsense that is Afghanistan would help. (And I mean now, not in a few years) That alone could save the RAF and our military in general.
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Getting out of the nonsense that is Afghanistan would help. (And I mean now, not in a few years) That alone could save the RAF and our military in general.