Chinook Mk6
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Mk6 PDR going ahead next week. Still planning for 12 but I get the impression Mk6 funding is a bit month-by-month so even if it's not formally cancelled, the funding stream (and work) may dry up any time.
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The way things are going there is a good chance that even if they do order 12-14 aircraft none of them will see Afghan dust in the current operational time-scale.
Combine this with the fact that reports coming back from theatre are suggesting that current lift is sufficient and you have two good excuses for not going ahead.
The problem I have is that I know of many sub-contract/system suppliers that have been asked, told and in some cases even funded to ramp up for this purchase. In the big scheme of things Boeing will view cancellation as a minor irritation but the teams in the UK already working on this will be devastated.
While the powers that be mull all this over there are a lot of highly paid people attending various costly meetings, all funded of course by the MOD, that are carrying on normal jogging billing against a potentially dying project. These same people could be using their time much more wisely attending the meetings to sort out real operational issues and problems such as DAS and Brownout!
Stop the faffing about, grow some big 'uns and announce the decision.
Combine this with the fact that reports coming back from theatre are suggesting that current lift is sufficient and you have two good excuses for not going ahead.
The problem I have is that I know of many sub-contract/system suppliers that have been asked, told and in some cases even funded to ramp up for this purchase. In the big scheme of things Boeing will view cancellation as a minor irritation but the teams in the UK already working on this will be devastated.
While the powers that be mull all this over there are a lot of highly paid people attending various costly meetings, all funded of course by the MOD, that are carrying on normal jogging billing against a potentially dying project. These same people could be using their time much more wisely attending the meetings to sort out real operational issues and problems such as DAS and Brownout!
Stop the faffing about, grow some big 'uns and announce the decision.
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SquidLord
Be afraid, very afraid. MRA4 funding went to a month by month basis towards the end of 2009 and the rest, as they say, is history.
Ron,
I understand your frustration but please look at the bigger picture. Those personnel directly involved with the Mk6 will be in many cases the very same people helping to deliver solutions for dust landings & DAS. Ironically,though the Mk6 indeed may never see Afg, it's vital to both programmes as it will (if it survives) deliver Digital AFCS and the next-gen DAS to the fleet; once proven on the Mk6 they can be retrofitted to the legacy aircraft. With regard to the Mk6 buy, the whole of FRWS relies upon it. We're still massively short of RW lift according to the NAO, and it will only get worse when the SK dies. The Mk6 is much, much more than just a few more cabs to make convenient headlines; much of the future Chinook capability relies on getting access to the non-obsolescent CH47F standard.
I understand your frustration but please look at the bigger picture. Those personnel directly involved with the Mk6 will be in many cases the very same people helping to deliver solutions for dust landings & DAS. Ironically,though the Mk6 indeed may never see Afg, it's vital to both programmes as it will (if it survives) deliver Digital AFCS and the next-gen DAS to the fleet; once proven on the Mk6 they can be retrofitted to the legacy aircraft. With regard to the Mk6 buy, the whole of FRWS relies upon it. We're still massively short of RW lift according to the NAO, and it will only get worse when the SK dies. The Mk6 is much, much more than just a few more cabs to make convenient headlines; much of the future Chinook capability relies on getting access to the non-obsolescent CH47F standard.
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Evalu8ter
I take your points completely and agree. To some extent I was having a bit of a rant but it's off my chest now. I just really hope that the bean counters do see the bigger picture and not carry on with the opportunistic approach that seems to prevail right now.
On a lighter note...retrofit DAFCS to MK4/5??? Might be cheaper to buy 46 new F Models!
I take your points completely and agree. To some extent I was having a bit of a rant but it's off my chest now. I just really hope that the bean counters do see the bigger picture and not carry on with the opportunistic approach that seems to prevail right now.
On a lighter note...retrofit DAFCS to MK4/5??? Might be cheaper to buy 46 new F Models!
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Evalu8ter,
Retrofit DAFCS, that sounds like a big job, are you sure you can't make do with AFCS a while longer
? I think Ron might have a point re the Mk6, but you might want an improved electrical system to go with that new DAS. While you are at it, perhaps we could interest you in some fat tanks?
CH147F - doing what we all hoped CSAR-X was going to do!
CWD
Retrofit DAFCS, that sounds like a big job, are you sure you can't make do with AFCS a while longer
? I think Ron might have a point re the Mk6, but you might want an improved electrical system to go with that new DAS. While you are at it, perhaps we could interest you in some fat tanks? CH147F - doing what we all hoped CSAR-X was going to do!
CWD
Last edited by Canadian WokkaDoctor; 25th Feb 2011 at 18:31.
CWD,
Now you're just teasing me.....
I'd love your new electrics and I do enjoy the extra gas the fatboy tanks give.
But you've not got the Block 10 CSAR-X kit; Stingers and hellfires. Fit those and I'll be at Pet in a shot!!
I don't know if we've "done the math" on retrofitting DAFCS - let alone trying to clear a unique hybrid. Might just be easier to buy new.
Now you're just teasing me.....
I'd love your new electrics and I do enjoy the extra gas the fatboy tanks give.
But you've not got the Block 10 CSAR-X kit; Stingers and hellfires. Fit those and I'll be at Pet in a shot!!
I don't know if we've "done the math" on retrofitting DAFCS - let alone trying to clear a unique hybrid. Might just be easier to buy new.
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Weapons?
Evalu8ter,
Weapons? That doesn't sound very Canadian, a bit too "offensive", eh? When I first got here I couldn't believe that the MHLH configuration didn't include DC M134, so I went about trying to "sell it" to anyone who would listen. Only now, after theatre reports from the CH146 fleet, are 1 Wing seriously considering an M134 requirement for CH147F.
CWD
Weapons? That doesn't sound very Canadian, a bit too "offensive", eh? When I first got here I couldn't believe that the MHLH configuration didn't include DC M134, so I went about trying to "sell it" to anyone who would listen. Only now, after theatre reports from the CH146 fleet, are 1 Wing seriously considering an M134 requirement for CH147F.
CWD
CWD,
Not surprised, surely the same parochialism exists your side of the Atlantic eh? What's the point of retaining the slower less capable CH146 as an escort with M134 if you simply arm the CH47 with them in the first place.....Force size and command positions - that's why...
DC M134 - what a great bit of kit!! All the joys with a fraction of the problems!
Not surprised, surely the same parochialism exists your side of the Atlantic eh? What's the point of retaining the slower less capable CH146 as an escort with M134 if you simply arm the CH47 with them in the first place.....Force size and command positions - that's why...
DC M134 - what a great bit of kit!! All the joys with a fraction of the problems!
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So, Evalu8r
If the lift problem is only going to get worse when SK goes ...
Why not keep the Mk4s, up them all to Mk 4X, do the same to the 3s, 3As, and a bunch of 6s out of the shed, paint everything except the 4s yellow and do UKSAR and truly amphibious BH with a machine that will match Merlin at 1/3 the cost?
Oh and cancel Puma 2 to get the money (Eurocopter didn't give me a job on the project so it must be a stupid idea).
If you need a Project Manager, or a trials pilot, you know my phone number ...
Sven
If the lift problem is only going to get worse when SK goes ...
Why not keep the Mk4s, up them all to Mk 4X, do the same to the 3s, 3As, and a bunch of 6s out of the shed, paint everything except the 4s yellow and do UKSAR and truly amphibious BH with a machine that will match Merlin at 1/3 the cost?
Oh and cancel Puma 2 to get the money (Eurocopter didn't give me a job on the project so it must be a stupid idea).
If you need a Project Manager, or a trials pilot, you know my phone number ...
Sven
Last edited by Sven Sixtoo; 25th Feb 2011 at 20:44.
Sven,
Far too logical and ignores one vital point. The Puma is beloved of several senior RAF hands who don't want to be seen accepting a RN cast-off. The SAR-H cancellation may well force a radical change in mindset. Who knows, there could be a nice consultancy job for you if that occurs....
SK3/3A/4/6 to a new Mk8 standard akin to the S61 Triton with all of the best Carson Bits and integrated into SKIOS. Capable cabs, UK offset and already amphibeous. Scrap Puma 2 to realise the WLC savings of driving a type out of service. If you're really daring, scrap/sell Merlin as well and modify 100+ of them.....
Far too logical and ignores one vital point. The Puma is beloved of several senior RAF hands who don't want to be seen accepting a RN cast-off. The SAR-H cancellation may well force a radical change in mindset. Who knows, there could be a nice consultancy job for you if that occurs....
SK3/3A/4/6 to a new Mk8 standard akin to the S61 Triton with all of the best Carson Bits and integrated into SKIOS. Capable cabs, UK offset and already amphibeous. Scrap Puma 2 to realise the WLC savings of driving a type out of service. If you're really daring, scrap/sell Merlin as well and modify 100+ of them.....
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Helicopters ordered for frontline 'won't fly in Afghanistan'
BFBS 18 April 2011
It is reported that new Chinooks put on order for troops in Afghanistan will not be ready in time to be deployed there because of defence cuts.
The Daily Telegraph says it has obtained information that a dozen new helicopters due to be delivered by 2013 will be delayed until after 2015 when Britain’s combat mission is over.
Labour promised the extra Chinooks in 2009 but a recent deal between the Ministry of Defence and the Treasury has seen many projects put on hold to tackle a £1 billion funding gap now. The Chinook orders have been pushed back as a result.
BFBS 18 April 2011
It is reported that new Chinooks put on order for troops in Afghanistan will not be ready in time to be deployed there because of defence cuts.
The Daily Telegraph says it has obtained information that a dozen new helicopters due to be delivered by 2013 will be delayed until after 2015 when Britain’s combat mission is over.
Labour promised the extra Chinooks in 2009 but a recent deal between the Ministry of Defence and the Treasury has seen many projects put on hold to tackle a £1 billion funding gap now. The Chinook orders have been pushed back as a result.
I/C
Last edited by Ian Corrigible; 18th Apr 2011 at 17:14.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Which means the Mk 6s will be replacements for those in AFG. Who knows, maybe the old one will be handed over the the AFG AF.
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Ian Corrigible quoted - "will be delayed until after 2015 when Britain’s combat mission is over"
Don't worry. Quite far sighted of the last government really.
By then they will be needed to support your troops deployed in Libya.
John
Don't worry. Quite far sighted of the last government really.
By then they will be needed to support your troops deployed in Libya.
John
