Your just "Public Sector Workers"
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Your just "Public Sector Workers"
I apologise for posting this but I'm so annoyed, who do these civil servants think they are ?
Ursula Brennan, the ministry’s permanent under-secretary, was reprimanded hours after military charities warned the Government it was in danger of breaching the Military Covenant that it had promised to restore.
Mrs Brennan was asked yesterday by James Arbuthnot, the Commons defence committee chairman, what she thought about reports of declining morale in the Services over cuts and job losses.
She replied that Service personnel had to “recognise that they are not exempt from that”.
She added that it was the “tough message one needs to get across to the Armed Forces” as the “top priority” was reducing the budget.
Mrs Brennan was reprimanded by Mr Arbuthnot for describing troops as public sector workers. “I’m not sure that someone who is fighting in a forward operating base in Afghanistan will see themselves necessarily working in the public sector,” he told her.
Ursula Brennan, the ministry’s permanent under-secretary, was reprimanded hours after military charities warned the Government it was in danger of breaching the Military Covenant that it had promised to restore.
Mrs Brennan was asked yesterday by James Arbuthnot, the Commons defence committee chairman, what she thought about reports of declining morale in the Services over cuts and job losses.
She replied that Service personnel had to “recognise that they are not exempt from that”.
She added that it was the “tough message one needs to get across to the Armed Forces” as the “top priority” was reducing the budget.
Mrs Brennan was reprimanded by Mr Arbuthnot for describing troops as public sector workers. “I’m not sure that someone who is fighting in a forward operating base in Afghanistan will see themselves necessarily working in the public sector,” he told her.
If someone is paid from the public purse, and works in an area doing roles not done by the private sector then surely they are public sector workers?
I've seen plenty of forces personnel view themselves as a (unique) part of the public sector.
Surely we have more important things to be outraged about?
I've seen plenty of forces personnel view themselves as a (unique) part of the public sector.
Surely we have more important things to be outraged about?
For once - Annoyed may have a point.
Anyway - very few people have the time, energy or sense of belonging these days to get steamed up about some pen pushing doris and her views on the military.
Anyway - very few people have the time, energy or sense of belonging these days to get steamed up about some pen pushing doris and her views on the military.
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Just what we need.... More civvies employed with links to the mob that think they are head and shoulders above the rest of us and that we should just "suck it up"!
It's people like this that kill the morale like in the other thread! (apologies for thread drift!)
It's people like this that kill the morale like in the other thread! (apologies for thread drift!)
Ursula Brennan is not just some 't%rt'. She is PUS - the top civil servant within the MOD and has considerable fiscal control - over just about all we do short of combat operations. Inter alia, she has called fro the reduction of SP numbers in Cyprus (going down the route of the FI), considerable influence on pay and allowances, reductions in personnel (SP and CS)...I could go on, but frankly, I've already made my decision to leave.
James Arbuthnot (former defence minister under John Major) is a clever cove. He was, in my opinion, right to upbraid UB over the perjorative reference to the Services as public sector workers (which covers the gamut of activities from litter pickers working part-time for your Parish Council to staff of the soon-to-be closed Forensic Science Service). Our TACOS, ethos and history does set us apart from 'other' public sector workers, and we should guard against the erosion of our status, which would, in time, allow sucessive adminsitrations to 'harmonise' pensions and benefits, but without granting us an advocacy body.
James Arbuthnot (former defence minister under John Major) is a clever cove. He was, in my opinion, right to upbraid UB over the perjorative reference to the Services as public sector workers (which covers the gamut of activities from litter pickers working part-time for your Parish Council to staff of the soon-to-be closed Forensic Science Service). Our TACOS, ethos and history does set us apart from 'other' public sector workers, and we should guard against the erosion of our status, which would, in time, allow sucessive adminsitrations to 'harmonise' pensions and benefits, but without granting us an advocacy body.
As ever, Whenurhappy has hit the nail on the head. The problem is not whether or not we are called public servants; the problem is that PUS, the top civil servant in the MOD and the person who is CDS's 'oppo', seems to imply that she feels that Service personnel have no special claim to consideration above that over any other government employee.
This flies in the face of the military covenant which specifically recognises that because they may be called upon to kill and die for their country, Service personnel require special (albeit not necessarily preferential) consideration.
For someone who was 2nd PUS for 2 years, and is now PUS, to have not yet grasped this fundamental notion is worrying. If only it were some 'Doris'...
This flies in the face of the military covenant which specifically recognises that because they may be called upon to kill and die for their country, Service personnel require special (albeit not necessarily preferential) consideration.
For someone who was 2nd PUS for 2 years, and is now PUS, to have not yet grasped this fundamental notion is worrying. If only it were some 'Doris'...
No doubt we can expect to see some sort of internal message or "briefing note" from her in the next few days stating what a wonderful job she thinks everyone in the military does, how she is totally supportive of what we do, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah.......as she tries to recover the situation and her lost credibility.
Just hope she doesn't expect anyone to actually believe it!
Just hope she doesn't expect anyone to actually believe it!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Just read in the Torygraph of another cabinet office civil servant that decided that Dannatt was wrong when he said we needed more boots on the ground.
Why don't we put these 'public sector workers' in real jobs? Send them to AFG as the Commander? Let them make the life and death decisions? Let them write to the bereaved?
Why don't we put these 'public sector workers' in real jobs? Send them to AFG as the Commander? Let them make the life and death decisions? Let them write to the bereaved?
Gentleman Aviator
I am saddened but unsurprised. Having done a bit of time in the MoD myself, even (many) career civil servants "still don't get it". Two quotes I can remember from them:
"Why do we have military officers in MoD? Ministry of Health doesn't have any doctors and nurses, and Transport doesn't have any train drivers."
And from an HEO/C2 at STC as it then was:
"I'm the equivalent of a sqn ldr - I've worked here for 20 years and don't wear a uniform - whay does anyone else need to (at STC)."
Perhaps we should modify the age-old suggestion (banter, honest guv!) that we used to use about Flying Pay. At the end of each year (probably FY to keep the bean-counters happy), calculate the number of uniformed military who have lost their lives on duty, select at random a similar proportion of MoD Civil Servants ...... and have them shot!
"Why do we have military officers in MoD? Ministry of Health doesn't have any doctors and nurses, and Transport doesn't have any train drivers."
And from an HEO/C2 at STC as it then was:
"I'm the equivalent of a sqn ldr - I've worked here for 20 years and don't wear a uniform - whay does anyone else need to (at STC)."
Perhaps we should modify the age-old suggestion (banter, honest guv!) that we used to use about Flying Pay. At the end of each year (probably FY to keep the bean-counters happy), calculate the number of uniformed military who have lost their lives on duty, select at random a similar proportion of MoD Civil Servants ...... and have them shot!
I have several times reminded civil servants that no special qualifications, training or experience are required to be a civilian. I was born one! However, everyone in the UK military has been selected, often from a very large pool of applicants.
Whatever.........................
Give it a rest!
Oh..and she may be the PUS, but she's still an uppity tart who, like most civil servants, has been promoted far above her abilities or usefulness.
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Training risky, that man was jailed for writing offensive and malicious communications on that internet site. I don't think writing "whatever" is either.
However writing "but she's still an uppity tart" or "has been promoted far above her abilities or usefulness" and "No still annoyed by this TART" could be construed as offensive in the eyes of the law.
So you could be seen as "trolling" as you get a reaction from really annoyed.
However writing "but she's still an uppity tart" or "has been promoted far above her abilities or usefulness" and "No still annoyed by this TART" could be construed as offensive in the eyes of the law.
So you could be seen as "trolling" as you get a reaction from really annoyed.
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Never mind that,
Is she "fit"?
As in "fit for purpose at minimum cost".
You gotta love how "they" will denigrate ANYTHING to keep their snouts in the trough.
As in "fit for purpose at minimum cost".
You gotta love how "they" will denigrate ANYTHING to keep their snouts in the trough.
There is a case to be made for reducing the Military from the "strategy" part of of the MoD, and utterly reducing the CS part on the "operational" part of the MoD. The problem is that we mix the two, throughout the "Centre".
OK apart from the Cmd Sec at PJHQ, where are there civil servants in operational decision-making role (notwithstanding DIS)?
The vast majority of staff in ACDS Ops are military; a significant number within Strategy are military (although this may change)...are you suggesting we remove serving officers from strategic planning roles?
The vast majority of staff in ACDS Ops are military; a significant number within Strategy are military (although this may change)...are you suggesting we remove serving officers from strategic planning roles?