Somebody else must still love being in the RAF as much as me...
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Six months notice to PVR!! Luxury. When I went on '95 I had to give 18 months!! They rubbed salt in by offering me promotion after 15 months. I declined as I'd already got a place at uni which I'd had to defer for a year. Wouldn't have minded if I'd been some all singing and dancing trade but I was a bloody Squipper! Hardly difficult to replace.
For a thread that could have easily descended into a bunfight, this has been surprisingly restrained. On the one hand, it is nice not to feel as though I'm stumbled into the NAFFI over on ARRSE, but equally, the tone of many of the recent posts is rather depressing. A sense of resignation and despondancy seems to ooze from many of the posts, almost as though the spirit and fight which has got the RAF through many a fix over the years has now gone, having been thoroughly kicked out of many individuals through cuts, bureaucratization, politicization and a non-stop thrashing with no end to any of these things in sight, and all for little reward or gain in terms of career and family.
I agree with John M in loving the RAF dearly; it was the only thing I ever had my heart set on doing, but right now, I'm really struggling to see what future there is. With an option point looming in the next few years, I will have to make a decision - and soon. I could stay in for the long haul, have a stab at the full career thing, and if the wind blows in the right direction and the postings and promotions chicken bones and runes fall in the right direction, could I suppose have a half-decent career. Plus the job security would be very nice, and at the end of the day, the bank manager is only really interested in what cold hard cash I can send his way each month, so economics does have some say.
But more importantly than that, the nagging thought that has been running through my head these past few months is if I do stay, what will I actually get out it. We are shrinking, opportunities are getting fewer and fewer and as Jabba said what new skills or experience am I getting from this? Will the next 20+ years be a rotation of uninspiring staff jobs that just seem to be about shuffling paper for the sake of it, and deep down in your heart you know full well that if the paper wasn't shuffled life would go on and nothing would fall over. In short, I fear that the RAF has become the sort of unfullfilling, Reggie Perin-esque job that I specifically joined up to avoid
In short, and to answer the exam question no I'm not particularly enjoying it and I feel that along with many on this thread my enthusiasm and will to fight has pretty much evaporated in recent years. It's a hard thing to admit to - that the one thing you always wanted to do is actually turning to a bag of spanners and there is little you can do about it. I suspect that I and a lot of individuals I work with are sitting there thinking the similar thing. At a recent briefing from a VSO, the line was that the RAF will be an excellent place to be in 2020. Unfortunately, that line was immediately caveated with unless we fck it up royally between now and then and everyone leaves. I really don't envy their job of trying to keep hold of their combat experienced personnel at the rate things are going. Now would be a really really good time for some inspirational senior leadership to stick its head above the parapet.
I agree with John M in loving the RAF dearly; it was the only thing I ever had my heart set on doing, but right now, I'm really struggling to see what future there is. With an option point looming in the next few years, I will have to make a decision - and soon. I could stay in for the long haul, have a stab at the full career thing, and if the wind blows in the right direction and the postings and promotions chicken bones and runes fall in the right direction, could I suppose have a half-decent career. Plus the job security would be very nice, and at the end of the day, the bank manager is only really interested in what cold hard cash I can send his way each month, so economics does have some say.
But more importantly than that, the nagging thought that has been running through my head these past few months is if I do stay, what will I actually get out it. We are shrinking, opportunities are getting fewer and fewer and as Jabba said what new skills or experience am I getting from this? Will the next 20+ years be a rotation of uninspiring staff jobs that just seem to be about shuffling paper for the sake of it, and deep down in your heart you know full well that if the paper wasn't shuffled life would go on and nothing would fall over. In short, I fear that the RAF has become the sort of unfullfilling, Reggie Perin-esque job that I specifically joined up to avoid
In short, and to answer the exam question no I'm not particularly enjoying it and I feel that along with many on this thread my enthusiasm and will to fight has pretty much evaporated in recent years. It's a hard thing to admit to - that the one thing you always wanted to do is actually turning to a bag of spanners and there is little you can do about it. I suspect that I and a lot of individuals I work with are sitting there thinking the similar thing. At a recent briefing from a VSO, the line was that the RAF will be an excellent place to be in 2020. Unfortunately, that line was immediately caveated with unless we fck it up royally between now and then and everyone leaves. I really don't envy their job of trying to keep hold of their combat experienced personnel at the rate things are going. Now would be a really really good time for some inspirational senior leadership to stick its head above the parapet.
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Melchie - I hear your pain. Big decision to make to commit decades to the RAF; life is not a rehearsal etc etc.
Can I offer a crumb or 2 of comfort? You seem to see the RAF as 2 separate entities - the flying bit (Hoorah) and the staffing bit (Booh). My experience is that it isn't that simple. I opted for the career bit - did 5 tours on the front line (saw the world, inflicted military violence on the Queen's enemies, queued at Brize etc etc), but also did some of the staffwork (MoD, PJHQ, NATO, acronym after acronym). My experience is that the 2 sides are different; but they aren't good v bad, just different.
The key point has already been made - the people are the key. I've continued to work with some great people; I've even had the priveledge of commanding some of them - it's worth a dozen ground tours. I've also had the chance to see how Govt 'works', why politicians do what they do and why NATO works like it does. Easy to put some brackets after some of the last few words, but the reality is that, once you understand how and why things work, it all starts to make sense. It also makes you realise that there's a whole lot more to life and the RAF than the simple flying bit (great though that is/was).
Depressed about living in post-SDSR RAF? Yes, of course I am - it's disappointing when your Govt doesn't understand what they are doing to your RAF. But I suspect that it feels the same in the NHS, Civil Service, Teaching, etc etc - the difference is, we've still got great people who love doing what they're doing!
Can I offer a crumb or 2 of comfort? You seem to see the RAF as 2 separate entities - the flying bit (Hoorah) and the staffing bit (Booh). My experience is that it isn't that simple. I opted for the career bit - did 5 tours on the front line (saw the world, inflicted military violence on the Queen's enemies, queued at Brize etc etc), but also did some of the staffwork (MoD, PJHQ, NATO, acronym after acronym). My experience is that the 2 sides are different; but they aren't good v bad, just different.
The key point has already been made - the people are the key. I've continued to work with some great people; I've even had the priveledge of commanding some of them - it's worth a dozen ground tours. I've also had the chance to see how Govt 'works', why politicians do what they do and why NATO works like it does. Easy to put some brackets after some of the last few words, but the reality is that, once you understand how and why things work, it all starts to make sense. It also makes you realise that there's a whole lot more to life and the RAF than the simple flying bit (great though that is/was).
Depressed about living in post-SDSR RAF? Yes, of course I am - it's disappointing when your Govt doesn't understand what they are doing to your RAF. But I suspect that it feels the same in the NHS, Civil Service, Teaching, etc etc - the difference is, we've still got great people who love doing what they're doing!
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M01:
I empathise with you, absolutely. Its not necessarily a decision that we all have to come to, but its something that we all have to give some consideration to. You're right, if the promotion, if the postings, if... but ultimately, you'll know absolutely in your own mind when you've arrived at that crossroads and when you'll need to start weighing things up as to what you're going to do next and whether continuing in the service is the right option.
I took the decision that I did in the summer of 1998 when you used to have to give a years notice as a non-commissioned after having served 12 years. The tipping point for me was despite being qualified to the next rank, there had been a er... disconnect, shall we say, at trade management level as to how many SNCO's they needed to run IUKADGE/ICCS and how much the power of networking would allow them to carry out the post cold war AD task remotely, allowing them to close many sites. Despite having cleared out a lot of the dead wood in the 93-94 redundancies, there was almost immediately following that a rush to promote candidates to SNCO in the anticipation they would be needed to fill SOC's & CRC's that never transpired in the end, thereby creating a whole new generation of dead mans shoes posts and a promotion diamond instead of a pyramid. In addition to that, the post that I was in at Bentley Priory was giving me good IT Ops experience, but the emerging PC networking technology was being hogged by Jafads and the Chf Tech SNCO IC wouldnt send us on the appropriate courses to run the kit because "you'd all PVR"... didnt stop him sending his own lads on those same courses which led to exactly the same outcome. They PVR'd as well!
So, I thought, I've got potentially another seven years of this, being sent to the Falklands every two years - amazing how many pregnancies and dodgy knees prevented people from doing their fair share - and next to no chance of advancement or further developing my skills beyond what I self studied and the likelyhood of being sent back into the trade for which a lot of the gloss had gone off. So I thought, I can either stick this out, come out at 40 with a pension, but an out of date skillset and have more trouble finding work, or I can go for it now, good current skillset and a chance to make up the difference by the time I would have reached pensionable age.
That was the tipping point for me. Others stayed in for the full 22, still found work at the end of it and they too have no regrets about how they played it.
Ultimately all our circumstances are different, our aims different, and levels of expectation are different. So long as you can say that when you come to that crossroads that you hand on heart made what you believe to be the right decision for you and your family based on the information available to you and the circumstances at the time, your conscience can be clear. Being de-institutionalised at the end of your term is not as scary as it may seem, but you have to seize the day and take charge of your life and go for it.
Personally, although I made mates for life, learned so much and have so many memories that I will treasure, I've never looked back. And I wouldnt have changed a thing either.
And regarding your last line:
"Now would be a really really good time for some inspirational senior leadership to stick its head above the parapet."
Hell yes. From the very very top, not just in the service, but from No10 downwards. The lack of inspirational leadership and the politicisation of the upper echelons of not only the services, but the police, the civil service, the whole shooting match has been one of the most corrosive, damaging things that I have seen in the last 30 years and the impact has been felt all the way down the line to the ordinary Joe in the street. As a nation we need that inspirational leadership more than ever and it pains me to say that not only is it not at the table now, theres not even the remotest sign of it being on the horizon, immediate or otherwise. That for me, is one of the saddest things of all... so much lost and wasted and thrown away for the want of true leaders rather than political place-men.
I empathise with you, absolutely. Its not necessarily a decision that we all have to come to, but its something that we all have to give some consideration to. You're right, if the promotion, if the postings, if... but ultimately, you'll know absolutely in your own mind when you've arrived at that crossroads and when you'll need to start weighing things up as to what you're going to do next and whether continuing in the service is the right option.
I took the decision that I did in the summer of 1998 when you used to have to give a years notice as a non-commissioned after having served 12 years. The tipping point for me was despite being qualified to the next rank, there had been a er... disconnect, shall we say, at trade management level as to how many SNCO's they needed to run IUKADGE/ICCS and how much the power of networking would allow them to carry out the post cold war AD task remotely, allowing them to close many sites. Despite having cleared out a lot of the dead wood in the 93-94 redundancies, there was almost immediately following that a rush to promote candidates to SNCO in the anticipation they would be needed to fill SOC's & CRC's that never transpired in the end, thereby creating a whole new generation of dead mans shoes posts and a promotion diamond instead of a pyramid. In addition to that, the post that I was in at Bentley Priory was giving me good IT Ops experience, but the emerging PC networking technology was being hogged by Jafads and the Chf Tech SNCO IC wouldnt send us on the appropriate courses to run the kit because "you'd all PVR"... didnt stop him sending his own lads on those same courses which led to exactly the same outcome. They PVR'd as well!
So, I thought, I've got potentially another seven years of this, being sent to the Falklands every two years - amazing how many pregnancies and dodgy knees prevented people from doing their fair share - and next to no chance of advancement or further developing my skills beyond what I self studied and the likelyhood of being sent back into the trade for which a lot of the gloss had gone off. So I thought, I can either stick this out, come out at 40 with a pension, but an out of date skillset and have more trouble finding work, or I can go for it now, good current skillset and a chance to make up the difference by the time I would have reached pensionable age.
That was the tipping point for me. Others stayed in for the full 22, still found work at the end of it and they too have no regrets about how they played it.
Ultimately all our circumstances are different, our aims different, and levels of expectation are different. So long as you can say that when you come to that crossroads that you hand on heart made what you believe to be the right decision for you and your family based on the information available to you and the circumstances at the time, your conscience can be clear. Being de-institutionalised at the end of your term is not as scary as it may seem, but you have to seize the day and take charge of your life and go for it.
Personally, although I made mates for life, learned so much and have so many memories that I will treasure, I've never looked back. And I wouldnt have changed a thing either.
And regarding your last line:
"Now would be a really really good time for some inspirational senior leadership to stick its head above the parapet."
Hell yes. From the very very top, not just in the service, but from No10 downwards. The lack of inspirational leadership and the politicisation of the upper echelons of not only the services, but the police, the civil service, the whole shooting match has been one of the most corrosive, damaging things that I have seen in the last 30 years and the impact has been felt all the way down the line to the ordinary Joe in the street. As a nation we need that inspirational leadership more than ever and it pains me to say that not only is it not at the table now, theres not even the remotest sign of it being on the horizon, immediate or otherwise. That for me, is one of the saddest things of all... so much lost and wasted and thrown away for the want of true leaders rather than political place-men.
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Well.... I am 24 hours short of 12 years service, upon which I will walk out of the main gate, never to look back.
Have I had a good time? Mainly yes, as a number of people have said, it's the people that make the Forces work, and I have had the luck to meet and serve with fantastic people across all trades & ranks in my time. I have also been fortunate enough to have had some great experiences that I would never have had in a civil job, some bloody scary experiences I wouldn't have had in a civil job, and learnt a lot about myself.
What is upsetting is watching the demise of the RAF from under the feet of it's loyal people, the last 2 years have been crap, and it is only going to get worse. The gripes that people have always had, have now become serious issues, and the vast amount of people now are looking out for No1, as they no longer feel the RAF cares about them.
The general attitude around the whole station where I have been based, (secret soon to be gone Wilts airbase) is despondancy,and from what I have seen, the donkeys back is broken, and people are no longer willing to go "above & beyond" to make things happen. The "can do" attitude has become " won't do" as it only serves to harm you in the long run, so people are just letting the system take it's course.
The amount of quality people leaving the service will bite hard in the near future, and I feel quite lucky that I am leaving just at the right time, as the ship is sinking, & sinking fast
I have had a great time, but it is definatly the right time to be going.. If you are still in, enjoy what you can and stay safe 
Have I had a good time? Mainly yes, as a number of people have said, it's the people that make the Forces work, and I have had the luck to meet and serve with fantastic people across all trades & ranks in my time. I have also been fortunate enough to have had some great experiences that I would never have had in a civil job, some bloody scary experiences I wouldn't have had in a civil job, and learnt a lot about myself.
What is upsetting is watching the demise of the RAF from under the feet of it's loyal people, the last 2 years have been crap, and it is only going to get worse. The gripes that people have always had, have now become serious issues, and the vast amount of people now are looking out for No1, as they no longer feel the RAF cares about them.
The general attitude around the whole station where I have been based, (secret soon to be gone Wilts airbase) is despondancy,and from what I have seen, the donkeys back is broken, and people are no longer willing to go "above & beyond" to make things happen. The "can do" attitude has become " won't do" as it only serves to harm you in the long run, so people are just letting the system take it's course.
The amount of quality people leaving the service will bite hard in the near future, and I feel quite lucky that I am leaving just at the right time, as the ship is sinking, & sinking fast
I have had a great time, but it is definatly the right time to be going
.. If you are still in, enjoy what you can and stay safe
In 82, when I joined, the recruiting poster of choice was the one with a pilot at the front of an expanding pyramid of support: engineers, ATC, supply etc - all there to ensure that the 'business end' of the RAF worked and those fortunate enough to be trained to fly could concentrate on delivering exactly what the RAF was founded to provide - Air Power.
Now, still flying, that pyramid of support has been allowed to turn into a series of frustrating obstacles as little empires have flourished because the leadership hasn't had the nouse or ba**s to stop them.
Now it is IT, MT, JPA and PTs who constantly raise problems, invent new rules or protocols - all in a self-serving and self-aggrandising manner and all of which erode the quality of life in what should be the best job in the world.
I still get to fly, teach and examine which is enormously rewarding but the rest of the interminable routine of stats-chasing, blue screen of death, matrix tests and 'you can't do that because.....' is just pis8ing everyone I know off and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
RAF in 2020 a great place to be???? Well I can't see how without a sea change of attitude.
Now, still flying, that pyramid of support has been allowed to turn into a series of frustrating obstacles as little empires have flourished because the leadership hasn't had the nouse or ba**s to stop them.
Now it is IT, MT, JPA and PTs who constantly raise problems, invent new rules or protocols - all in a self-serving and self-aggrandising manner and all of which erode the quality of life in what should be the best job in the world.
I still get to fly, teach and examine which is enormously rewarding but the rest of the interminable routine of stats-chasing, blue screen of death, matrix tests and 'you can't do that because.....' is just pis8ing everyone I know off and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
RAF in 2020 a great place to be???? Well I can't see how without a sea change of attitude.
Having left in '93, it's very interesting to read the comments of those still in. I would agree that 99% (at least) of the managers/leaders in civvy street are muppets. Even where they have some principles, the lack of training means they don't know how to achieve their objectives. Fortunately one's Service experience makes it very easy to get them to go away and leave you to do your job in peace.
The imminent civilianisation of the Service, drop in flying hours and incompetant politicians were the reasons I (and others) PVRed post Cold War.
I still feel great pride in what the RAF represented then, and have no doubts that there are a lot of d#mn good people still in doing their best to keep something going.
Sadly the Government managed to trash my second career also (teaching), so I've sloped off to Canada. Everybody here still has a sense of decency and a lot of common sense. They also respect their military.
I do think that politicians only react when they have to, and large numbers leaving would be the only way to achieve that. Reasoning doesn't work, protest doesn't work, trying to ignore them doesn't work. Ghandi had it right - mass non-co-operation is effective. That isn't achieveable within the Service, so the only option is to leave.
The imminent civilianisation of the Service, drop in flying hours and incompetant politicians were the reasons I (and others) PVRed post Cold War.
I still feel great pride in what the RAF represented then, and have no doubts that there are a lot of d#mn good people still in doing their best to keep something going.
Sadly the Government managed to trash my second career also (teaching), so I've sloped off to Canada. Everybody here still has a sense of decency and a lot of common sense. They also respect their military.
I do think that politicians only react when they have to, and large numbers leaving would be the only way to achieve that. Reasoning doesn't work, protest doesn't work, trying to ignore them doesn't work. Ghandi had it right - mass non-co-operation is effective. That isn't achieveable within the Service, so the only option is to leave.
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I joined in '58 and left at 38/16 in 1977. Rejoined for 3 years, '91 to '94. No option to extend and I glad I am not in today's RAF. I would not advise anyone to join now and respect to those who are still serving and, as ever, doing their best against the financial, political and uninspiring leadership odds to deliver the goods
