Armed Forces Pension Calculator/Pension Forecast differences
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kingdom of UcK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Armed Forces Pension Calculator/Pension Forecast differences
I have been having a bit of a ding dong with SPVA and a pension forecast.
The long and the short of it is - when I input my service to the on-line calculator I get an EDP of about £900 pa more than what AFPS SPVA say in the pension forecast?
There have been several letters and checking of details however, now, if I want to continue to question their findings, it's £75 in advance!
I'm a member of the FPS and will enlist their help but I just wanted to highlight this incase anyone is nearing leaving
and they get told the money is going to be less than the on-line calculator. I had presumed it would have been fairly representative, give or take a few quid?
Anyone else had this?
Hugh FW
The long and the short of it is - when I input my service to the on-line calculator I get an EDP of about £900 pa more than what AFPS SPVA say in the pension forecast?
There have been several letters and checking of details however, now, if I want to continue to question their findings, it's £75 in advance!
I'm a member of the FPS and will enlist their help but I just wanted to highlight this incase anyone is nearing leaving
and they get told the money is going to be less than the on-line calculator. I had presumed it would have been fairly representative, give or take a few quid?Anyone else had this?
Hugh FW
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kingdom of UcK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spurlash2, negative mate.
I have specifically used the details that SPVA used in their forecast for that very reason. I know I'll be on a higher salary but I wanted to compare apples for apples, so I used their own specified criteria.
Still £900 down per year on my EDP from the calculator.
Hugh
I have specifically used the details that SPVA used in their forecast for that very reason. I know I'll be on a higher salary but I wanted to compare apples for apples, so I used their own specified criteria.
Still £900 down per year on my EDP from the calculator.
Hugh
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: inside the train looking onto the platform.
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
same here
I too have a difference of approx £900 to my detriment............is the programme wrong or is it the SPVA calcs.........they would not explain it to me and also stated that any further enquiries would require £75.
Why dont the 2 tie up?
Why dont the 2 tie up?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kingdom of UcK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLC, Hmmmmm,
I suspect the on-line calculator is wrong if two of us have a £900 loss quoted by SPVA. Was that from your EDP too?
My last letter to them included a copy of the on-line calculation however, their response was to refer me to their own calculations and effectively stop pestering them as their calcs were supposedly correct and the on-line calculator was set up so we can do the sums and not need to bother them!!
They neglected to answer the question as to why there was a £900 difference.
I'm presuming now that their numbers are correct and the calculator wrong. That doesn't fix the problem though.
I'll let you know what, if anything, transpires.
Hugh FW
I suspect the on-line calculator is wrong if two of us have a £900 loss quoted by SPVA. Was that from your EDP too?
My last letter to them included a copy of the on-line calculation however, their response was to refer me to their own calculations and effectively stop pestering them as their calcs were supposedly correct and the on-line calculator was set up so we can do the sums and not need to bother them!!
They neglected to answer the question as to why there was a £900 difference.
I'm presuming now that their numbers are correct and the calculator wrong. That doesn't fix the problem though.
I'll let you know what, if anything, transpires.
Hugh FW
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hugh,
I remember that the online calculator once had an issue with coping with part yearly incremental calculations. I wonder if that might be rearing its head again. I wonder if there is any significance in the fact you and SLC are both out by £900 (if you are both of similar personal circumstances). I remember too, that a year or so back, JPA was inadvertantly (and without telling people) chucking some people from '75 to '05.. are you both working to the same AFPS?
Also, you use the phrase 'Pay Rates' - are you '05 (that phrase would apply)? If you are '75, and have done an up to date calculation, are you and SPVA both working to 2010 Pension Codes (AFPS 75) and Pay Rates (AFPS 05)? If you are '75 however, remember that the online calculator assumes that for Pension Code purposes, the rank you are using is your substantive rank and you have held this rank for at least two years - SPVA might be working to a different set of info. It does does not take into account any AVCs that may be been paid either and does not forecast life commutation.
Either way, as you seem to be guessing, only one can be right and the published caveat for the calculator does state its liabilities and limitations. But it does seem strange that it is so clearly 'out' for no particular reason, and whatever that reason, the snag might need to be explored and addressed if it is to have any credibility. SPVA is generally professionally courteous so if you want to (possibly) avoid the charge and ask the right questions at the same time, I'd be glad to send a letter on your behalf, or provide you with the wording. If the former, you'd need to sign a form authorising SPVA to engage with me on an info basis on your behalf, thats all. If you like, I'd be glad to follow it up on your behalf - out of a sense of curiosity if nothing else, as well as it being a potentially worrying loose end.
I remember that the online calculator once had an issue with coping with part yearly incremental calculations. I wonder if that might be rearing its head again. I wonder if there is any significance in the fact you and SLC are both out by £900 (if you are both of similar personal circumstances). I remember too, that a year or so back, JPA was inadvertantly (and without telling people) chucking some people from '75 to '05.. are you both working to the same AFPS?
Also, you use the phrase 'Pay Rates' - are you '05 (that phrase would apply)? If you are '75, and have done an up to date calculation, are you and SPVA both working to 2010 Pension Codes (AFPS 75) and Pay Rates (AFPS 05)? If you are '75 however, remember that the online calculator assumes that for Pension Code purposes, the rank you are using is your substantive rank and you have held this rank for at least two years - SPVA might be working to a different set of info. It does does not take into account any AVCs that may be been paid either and does not forecast life commutation.
Either way, as you seem to be guessing, only one can be right and the published caveat for the calculator does state its liabilities and limitations. But it does seem strange that it is so clearly 'out' for no particular reason, and whatever that reason, the snag might need to be explored and addressed if it is to have any credibility. SPVA is generally professionally courteous so if you want to (possibly) avoid the charge and ask the right questions at the same time, I'd be glad to send a letter on your behalf, or provide you with the wording. If the former, you'd need to sign a form authorising SPVA to engage with me on an info basis on your behalf, thats all. If you like, I'd be glad to follow it up on your behalf - out of a sense of curiosity if nothing else, as well as it being a potentially worrying loose end.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The rates are actually calculated on your day of retirement so I guess there would be variations. I retired Apr 10 on APFS05. I cant find the pensions calculator estimate at 09 rates but my final figures were £2k more on the pension and 6k more on the gratuity than the 08 rates had predicted.
Are all your dates correct as its worked on a daily basis I believe?
Are all your dates correct as its worked on a daily basis I believe?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kingdom of UcK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gee
Again that's quite worrying when people are using this tool as a means to decide if they can financially leave or not. Luckily for you it worked out in your favour however, mine is less. 2K more !! What's the point of a calculator I ask myself?
That is all based on day specific dates too BTW.
Hugh
Again that's quite worrying when people are using this tool as a means to decide if they can financially leave or not. Luckily for you it worked out in your favour however, mine is less. 2K more !! What's the point of a calculator I ask myself?
That is all based on day specific dates too BTW.
Hugh
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just recieved my pension forcast from SPVA and it is bang on what the pension calc says, with only my pension abatement in respect of commutaion that is slightly more than the calc states.
However, no one at the SPVA or PSF can say with any kind of accuracy when these payments will hit my bank account.
I have been told the next working day to as far as 2 months
Does anyone have any evidance of time scales for payments of pension and gratuity?
However, no one at the SPVA or PSF can say with any kind of accuracy when these payments will hit my bank account.
I have been told the next working day to as far as 2 months
Does anyone have any evidance of time scales for payments of pension and gratuity?
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too have a difference of approx £900 to my detriment............is the programme wrong or is it the SPVA calcs.........they would not explain it to me and also stated that any further enquiries would require £75.
I find this bit quite interesting. Have they forgotten what S stands for in their title and for what reason, whom etc they are there?
Getting a quote for divorce is a different matter; trying to find out what you might be getting when leaving after serving 16+,22+ years etc and other Pension queries is their raison d'etre.
I hear wholeheartedly hear what Al R says about treading softly but if the time comes how about suggesting to them that if they don't start sorting it out and doing their job then each letter you send them will be £75+VAT?
G
I find this bit quite interesting. Have they forgotten what S stands for in their title and for what reason, whom etc they are there?
Getting a quote for divorce is a different matter; trying to find out what you might be getting when leaving after serving 16+,22+ years etc and other Pension queries is their raison d'etre.
I hear wholeheartedly hear what Al R says about treading softly but if the time comes how about suggesting to them that if they don't start sorting it out and doing their job then each letter you send them will be £75+VAT?
G
Last edited by gijoe; 6th Feb 2011 at 15:37. Reason: Thumbs!
Hugh - I think I may have found a possible reason for the different figures - check your PMs.
Mind you, if I'm right it's a fairly obvious error in the pension calculator, which you would like to think has been spotted by now....
If you feel I have a valid point then feel free to go public with it....
Mind you, if I'm right it's a fairly obvious error in the pension calculator, which you would like to think has been spotted by now....
If you feel I have a valid point then feel free to go public with it....
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone have any evidance of time scales for payments of pension and gratuity?
Pension is paid on a set day of the month in arrears at one twelfth of the annual rate. In my case I retired on the 17th and it is paid on the 20th.
Wrt the gratuity mine was paid 10 days after my retirement date although I wont bore you with the cock up that occurred. Suffice to say, make sure if you ever had an FMD lodged that you cancelled it or your gratuity will spin in cyberspace for a good few weeks.
Pension is paid on a set day of the month in arrears at one twelfth of the annual rate. In my case I retired on the 17th and it is paid on the 20th.
Wrt the gratuity mine was paid 10 days after my retirement date although I wont bore you with the cock up that occurred. Suffice to say, make sure if you ever had an FMD lodged that you cancelled it or your gratuity will spin in cyberspace for a good few weeks.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 119K East of SARDOT
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know why SPVA don't include in their letter a breakdown of the calculation they used to arrive at the pension (05) one has been 'awarded' on retirement?
Would also be interested to know if anyone has been successful in requesting a line-by-line printout from SPVA after they have retired?
S4G
Would also be interested to know if anyone has been successful in requesting a line-by-line printout from SPVA after they have retired?
S4G
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kingdom of UcK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sand,
My letter number 4 from SPVA broke down their calc. This allowed me to check their sums which seem correct however, it doesn't fix the problem that the on-line calculator is pushing out incorrect figures for some of us. People are making life changing decisions based upon the on-lne calculator. It MUST be a reliable tool and it needs to be sorted.
Biggus may have identified a reason for the difference in the calcs which highlights a glitch in the on line calculator calcs.
SPVA need to fix the issue and stop asking for £75 + VAT to discuss the problem.
Rgds
Hugh
My letter number 4 from SPVA broke down their calc. This allowed me to check their sums which seem correct however, it doesn't fix the problem that the on-line calculator is pushing out incorrect figures for some of us. People are making life changing decisions based upon the on-lne calculator. It MUST be a reliable tool and it needs to be sorted.
Biggus may have identified a reason for the difference in the calcs which highlights a glitch in the on line calculator calcs.
SPVA need to fix the issue and stop asking for £75 + VAT to discuss the problem.
Rgds
Hugh
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hugh, Biggus, SLC etc,
If you like, I will PM you the details of the Group Captain who runs with 'Financial Capability' planning within the MoD/RAF. Drop me a line if you would like them - I do lots of RAF presentations and it galls if I am advising people to do something that might inadvertantly mislead them. When I find the time this week, and as I suggested to Hugh, I might e-mail the Group Captain the link to this thread. The explanation might be obvious and the solution an easy one to implement.
I agree with Hugh - it is a bad state of affairs if the very first step to assessing post-career retirement financial options has a detrimental basic flaw in it - and one that no one has addressed, especially if they know about it. Think back to the debacle of 2009 (?) when it was discovered that pensions were being overpaid and subsequently reclaimed.. mine one of 'em.
If you like, I will PM you the details of the Group Captain who runs with 'Financial Capability' planning within the MoD/RAF. Drop me a line if you would like them - I do lots of RAF presentations and it galls if I am advising people to do something that might inadvertantly mislead them. When I find the time this week, and as I suggested to Hugh, I might e-mail the Group Captain the link to this thread. The explanation might be obvious and the solution an easy one to implement.
I agree with Hugh - it is a bad state of affairs if the very first step to assessing post-career retirement financial options has a detrimental basic flaw in it - and one that no one has addressed, especially if they know about it. Think back to the debacle of 2009 (?) when it was discovered that pensions were being overpaid and subsequently reclaimed.. mine one of 'em.
There are notes about these estimates on the calculator - this may cover your case:
So if you retire early in the financial year, your pension would be based largely on the previous year's salary rather than your current one.
Your final pensionable earnings are the greatest amount of pensionable earnings that has been earned in 365 consecutive days falling within the last three years. This calculator does not take this into account and assumes your final pensionable pay is the pay level you have input.
BN,
Thanks for your input, while your point is valid, I don't think this is the issue in Hugh FW's case. Especially given his planned reirement date.
Given that some of the information Hugh provided me with regarding his case is of a personal nature, I feel unable to discuss the specifics of his situation any further. I will leave it to Hugh to decide how much he wishes to disclose on a public forum.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be secretive or withold information, but I feel unable to disclose information Hugh provided by PM without his consent, and he is also obviously much more familiar with the details of his own situation.
Also, given that there is a pay freeze for the next 2 years (apart from annual incruements), this particular point is less likely to be an issue for some, at least for a while.
Once again, thanks for contributing...
Thanks for your input, while your point is valid, I don't think this is the issue in Hugh FW's case. Especially given his planned reirement date.
Given that some of the information Hugh provided me with regarding his case is of a personal nature, I feel unable to discuss the specifics of his situation any further. I will leave it to Hugh to decide how much he wishes to disclose on a public forum.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be secretive or withold information, but I feel unable to disclose information Hugh provided by PM without his consent, and he is also obviously much more familiar with the details of his own situation.
Also, given that there is a pay freeze for the next 2 years (apart from annual incruements), this particular point is less likely to be an issue for some, at least for a while.
Once again, thanks for contributing...
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On an Island
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Might I suggest that those who think that there might be a problem use the following route to ensure that it gets looked at ASAP?
Contact Details for SPVA Service Delivery Complaints
08 Sep 2010
SPVA Service Delivery Complaints are dealt with by the SPVA Pay Allowances Casework & Complaints Cell (PACCC).
If you are experiencing any SPVA JPA Service Delivery related problems you must in the first instance contact your Unit HR who will either resolve your issue or advise you to contact the JPAC EC. You should make use of the I-Support and Service Request procedures to report any problems you are experiencing. Service Delivery is defined as "the method of providing services to Service Personnel".
When you have exhausted all the avenues above and your issue has still not been resolved then you can submit a formal SPVA Service Delivery Complaint in writing to the address below. The following information must be included:
MAILEMAILFAX
Contact Details for SPVA Service Delivery Complaints
08 Sep 2010SPVA Service Delivery Complaints are dealt with by the SPVA Pay Allowances Casework & Complaints Cell (PACCC).
If you are experiencing any SPVA JPA Service Delivery related problems you must in the first instance contact your Unit HR who will either resolve your issue or advise you to contact the JPAC EC. You should make use of the I-Support and Service Request procedures to report any problems you are experiencing. Service Delivery is defined as "the method of providing services to Service Personnel".
When you have exhausted all the avenues above and your issue has still not been resolved then you can submit a formal SPVA Service Delivery Complaint in writing to the address below. The following information must be included:
- Number, Rank, Name and Service
- Your contact details (to include telephone number and email address)
- Your unit HR contact details
- Service Request or I-support number(s) and dates raised
- A summary of your complaint with full supporting documentation
MAILEMAILFAX
SPVA JPA Complaints
MP 600
Kentigern House
65 Brown Street
Glasgow
G2 8EX
MP 600
Kentigern House
65 Brown Street
Glasgow
G2 8EX
(MOD)
SPVA-JPA-COMPLAINTS
SPVA-JPA-COMPLAINTS
(CIVILIAN)
0141 224 2605
0141 224 2605