RAF Movers Jailed:
Just another erk
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Tankertrashnav, The crime they committed was a victimless crime, had they paid the duty on those cigs, it would not have affected your tax in any way, you would still pay the same, though maybe a few on benefits and the like, would be able to claim more, and yes I think they got what they deserved.
Last edited by ArthurR; 6th Feb 2011 at 16:34.
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They have tarnished the Service and the trade and severely damaged the good reputation that has been built over the years by all individuals from LAC -Senior officer.
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I have just read through this thread, and something that strikes me is that many of the posters must be armchair or light blue types.
I see very little connection in waffling on about what anyone did AFTER the war (no war on), Or GERMANY (no war on), or from the USA (no war on). Even tales of perfectly LEGAL car buying (no war on) are not connected with this.
Coming from a green background, I fully realise that when things hot up, and you need supplies quickly, even things like drinking water can become luxurious seconds to essentials like ammunition (you can live for a lot longer in a contact without water than you can bullets!). We are all part of one team, and the fact that some crooks were using an overstretched supply system for their own ends may well bring distrust and possibly outright dislike of movers or the RAF as a whole to some folks (plenty of closed minds appearing on this thread already).
Yes some posters may not care at all and this may not be the crime of the century, but imagine being a bloke on the ground watching his mate be blown to peices in front of him............Only to suspect that movers are using the death of his long time friend to line their own pockets (during the repatriation)!
If the cigarettes replaced toilet rolls from a base closing in Germany then although the crime would still be the same one, I suspect it would not be in the same league morally, but that is just IMHO of course.
In the last decade or so the RAF has become much more closely (literally) involved in operations, and the bond between them and green forces has become closer.
It is always was a shame when the greed of a very few individuals can have such a dramatic effect to reverse long term gains.
Just a few thoughts
I see very little connection in waffling on about what anyone did AFTER the war (no war on), Or GERMANY (no war on), or from the USA (no war on). Even tales of perfectly LEGAL car buying (no war on) are not connected with this.
Coming from a green background, I fully realise that when things hot up, and you need supplies quickly, even things like drinking water can become luxurious seconds to essentials like ammunition (you can live for a lot longer in a contact without water than you can bullets!). We are all part of one team, and the fact that some crooks were using an overstretched supply system for their own ends may well bring distrust and possibly outright dislike of movers or the RAF as a whole to some folks (plenty of closed minds appearing on this thread already).
Yes some posters may not care at all and this may not be the crime of the century, but imagine being a bloke on the ground watching his mate be blown to peices in front of him............Only to suspect that movers are using the death of his long time friend to line their own pockets (during the repatriation)!
If the cigarettes replaced toilet rolls from a base closing in Germany then although the crime would still be the same one, I suspect it would not be in the same league morally, but that is just IMHO of course.
In the last decade or so the RAF has become much more closely (literally) involved in operations, and the bond between them and green forces has become closer.
It is always was a shame when the greed of a very few individuals can have such a dramatic effect to reverse long term gains.
Just a few thoughts
Perhaps we just had higher standards on the RAF's premier AAR squadron? 
I recall sitting on the OM terrace at Akrotiri, listening to some C-130 navigator bragging about how he had been on some exercise which involved flying from Scotland to Holland and back for several days. On each occasion he'd brought 2 of those huge 1.75 litre jugs of vodka back to Scotland with him.
Now, for his own use (to stock his bar for the year) is quite legal - although he might have to prove that. But he went on to tell his audience that he 'got a good price' for them....
Had someone tipped off HMRC at Lyneham that a self-admitted smuggler was on his way home, it would have caused annoyance and disruption for other, more honest crews - as no doubt an investigation would have required a number of incoming flights to be rummaged...
He was a bit of an odd character, large and loud mouthed with a weird obsession about hypnotism. Perhaps some of you might know him...??
I recall sitting on the OM terrace at Akrotiri, listening to some C-130 navigator bragging about how he had been on some exercise which involved flying from Scotland to Holland and back for several days. On each occasion he'd brought 2 of those huge 1.75 litre jugs of vodka back to Scotland with him.
Now, for his own use (to stock his bar for the year) is quite legal - although he might have to prove that. But he went on to tell his audience that he 'got a good price' for them....
Had someone tipped off HMRC at Lyneham that a self-admitted smuggler was on his way home, it would have caused annoyance and disruption for other, more honest crews - as no doubt an investigation would have required a number of incoming flights to be rummaged...
He was a bit of an odd character, large and loud mouthed with a weird obsession about hypnotism. Perhaps some of you might know him...??
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I recall being told (what is probably just a story) about a shackelton crew returning from Cyprus with the elsan having been cleaned up to be filled with brandy for a bash in the OM. Customs Officer, inspecting said aircraft on landing and having being assured there was nothing that needed to be declared..... took the opportunity to relieve himself in the elsan and then left the crew to it.....
Last edited by saudih; 6th Feb 2011 at 14:16. Reason: typo
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I definitely don't ever remember bringing back a standard NATO pallet of Becks from Germany for the Customs chaps Christmas bash one year.
Nope, don't remember that one.
I do remember someone doing that and then trying to sell it on at a profit though!
Nope, don't remember that one.
I do remember someone doing that and then trying to sell it on at a profit though!
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I discussed the duty payable with the Customs office at LYN when they had a permanent presence there, before departing on a flight, if I was planning to bring back anything unusual and/or above the allowance. Never knew who I had talked to but got a good idea of how much I would be stitched up for.
On returning from one trip, went to declare the item and the custom officer said that he remebered somebody asking him about the duty on said item. I said that it was me and he said, 'Shall we call that £20?' The word 'bargain' went through my mind and I promptly paid up with a 'Thank you'.
They had absolute discretion as to the amount they could charge and were generally ok if 'customers' played ball with them.
On returning from one trip, went to declare the item and the custom officer said that he remebered somebody asking him about the duty on said item. I said that it was me and he said, 'Shall we call that £20?' The word 'bargain' went through my mind and I promptly paid up with a 'Thank you'.
They had absolute discretion as to the amount they could charge and were generally ok if 'customers' played ball with them.
Indeed, dagama!
I once came home out-of-HMRC hours, did the self-declaration paperwork including leaving them a blank cheque......and was never charged a penny.
But on another occasion the 'Customs OCU' came to greet us after a trip to Tabuk, returning via a QTR at Palermo. I'd bought some 'Thomsun original' cassettes (yes, it was that long ago), which I duly declared. "How much did they cost you?", I was asked by one of the U/T customs officers. "NNN riyals". "What's that in pounds?" "Sorry, don't know - not much though"..... Refers to paperwork and calculator before telling me "That'll be £1.87 duty please"....
Sometimes they could be a little awkward - such as the infamous Farquar-the-revenue at Scampton, who charged Mongo Bl**s car tax on the ride-on lawn mower he'd brought back from Offutt. But on appeal and Mongo's statement "I'm not going shopping in Lincoln High Street on the damn thing!", the tax was refunded.
I once came home out-of-HMRC hours, did the self-declaration paperwork including leaving them a blank cheque......and was never charged a penny.
But on another occasion the 'Customs OCU' came to greet us after a trip to Tabuk, returning via a QTR at Palermo. I'd bought some 'Thomsun original' cassettes (yes, it was that long ago), which I duly declared. "How much did they cost you?", I was asked by one of the U/T customs officers. "NNN riyals". "What's that in pounds?" "Sorry, don't know - not much though"..... Refers to paperwork and calculator before telling me "That'll be £1.87 duty please"....
Sometimes they could be a little awkward - such as the infamous Farquar-the-revenue at Scampton, who charged Mongo Bl**s car tax on the ride-on lawn mower he'd brought back from Offutt. But on appeal and Mongo's statement "I'm not going shopping in Lincoln High Street on the damn thing!", the tax was refunded.
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I never landed at Brize after a few weeks in Nairobbery and went through the likes of this:
Customs Officer: Anything to declare?
Lars: Bottle and 200 and the front belly is full of coffee beans.
Customs Officer: **** off!
Customs Officer: Anything to declare?
Lars: Bottle and 200 and the front belly is full of coffee beans.
Customs Officer: **** off!
Impact on operations
BArnstormer,
I agree with your sentiments in toto. Even if there is a whiff of suspicsion that the activities of these greedy, selfish beggers had an impact on the operational supply chain, the reputation of the RAF as a whole will suffer. Movers do an indispensible job, and whereas their image in the past had taken a hammering (I remember a very porky movements Cpl in Akrotiri bulging out of too-tight KD - looking every inch a 'Come Fly with Me' character - being outstandingly rude and unhelpful when we had suffered our third delay in returning from the Middle East on R&R) but I have also seen the crappy hours they work meeting and dispatching aircraft full of angry, sullen young men and women who are determined to have a go at them. And then there is the huge amount of freight they move in ****ty environmental conditions with little thanks. Ten years of continuous high-end operations have enhanced the reputation of the RAF as a fighting force; perhaps our ire should be levelled at the 'stay-at-homes' who think that one 3 month OOA to Vincenza in 1998 was enough to knock on the door of One Star.
Oh, and if there is anyone who can change the toe-curling 'Sirs, Ma'ams, Ladies and Gentlemen, Excuse Ranks' malarky in departure halls/tents/aircraft......please do.
After all, everyone knows that the plural of Sir is Gentlemen...
I agree with your sentiments in toto. Even if there is a whiff of suspicsion that the activities of these greedy, selfish beggers had an impact on the operational supply chain, the reputation of the RAF as a whole will suffer. Movers do an indispensible job, and whereas their image in the past had taken a hammering (I remember a very porky movements Cpl in Akrotiri bulging out of too-tight KD - looking every inch a 'Come Fly with Me' character - being outstandingly rude and unhelpful when we had suffered our third delay in returning from the Middle East on R&R) but I have also seen the crappy hours they work meeting and dispatching aircraft full of angry, sullen young men and women who are determined to have a go at them. And then there is the huge amount of freight they move in ****ty environmental conditions with little thanks. Ten years of continuous high-end operations have enhanced the reputation of the RAF as a fighting force; perhaps our ire should be levelled at the 'stay-at-homes' who think that one 3 month OOA to Vincenza in 1998 was enough to knock on the door of One Star.
Oh, and if there is anyone who can change the toe-curling 'Sirs, Ma'ams, Ladies and Gentlemen, Excuse Ranks' malarky in departure halls/tents/aircraft......please do.
After all, everyone knows that the plural of Sir is Gentlemen...
Wow - there's a lot of vitriol being thrown over these movers. For what? Trying to cheat the taxman and getting more jailtime than a child abuser ever would?
Where's the vitriol, and punishment, for the senior bankers (Fred Goodwin) who have stolen FAR more public money than these hapless movers ever could?
Is it because the rich and powerful are too big to fail and it's embarrassing when they do...but the government must make an example out of the small fry because it's easier to enforce?
I know who I'd rather see do jailtime. Illegallity and immorality are all too often mutually exclusive in this country, and Joe taxpayer suffers as a result.
Where's the vitriol, and punishment, for the senior bankers (Fred Goodwin) who have stolen FAR more public money than these hapless movers ever could?
Is it because the rich and powerful are too big to fail and it's embarrassing when they do...but the government must make an example out of the small fry because it's easier to enforce?
I know who I'd rather see do jailtime. Illegallity and immorality are all too often mutually exclusive in this country, and Joe taxpayer suffers as a result.
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I'm surprised Sgt Walker had any ciggies to smuggle back.. Worked with him out in the COB when I was running the VAHS.. He was a chain smoker and a half!
His boys were the biggest bunch of village idiots though, not surprised his antics were not rumbled!
Mate of mine (in the trade) told me how they did it too!
His boys were the biggest bunch of village idiots though, not surprised his antics were not rumbled!
Mate of mine (in the trade) told me how they did it too!
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Maybe on a different scale but I for one will admit "there but for the grace of (insert deity here) go I" and many many others.
For starters, after spending many years with 3 Cdo Bde on various Norway jaunts I feel the UK probably benefited in the long term from the enterprising approach of just about everyone there remotely connected to the DF store.
Some of the stuff shipped back from Granby, Grapple, Telic and just about every other operational deployment would give HMRC a field day. The old logistical pipeline from BAOR through Marchwood was a godsend to those willing to use it.
I suggest that the Holier than thou attitude by some posters is significant in that it clearly shows one thing; those posters were out of touch with reality and had/have no idea of what is going on around them beyond tea and medals. Spiffing.
For starters, after spending many years with 3 Cdo Bde on various Norway jaunts I feel the UK probably benefited in the long term from the enterprising approach of just about everyone there remotely connected to the DF store.
Some of the stuff shipped back from Granby, Grapple, Telic and just about every other operational deployment would give HMRC a field day. The old logistical pipeline from BAOR through Marchwood was a godsend to those willing to use it.
I suggest that the Holier than thou attitude by some posters is significant in that it clearly shows one thing; those posters were out of touch with reality and had/have no idea of what is going on around them beyond tea and medals. Spiffing.
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"they had absolute discretion"
In the pre EU days perhaps. However, it took years for Customs & Excise to accept they could not charge any tax on purchases made by individuals who had already paid full tax in another EU State. All that confiscated wine, beer and ciggies not to mention crushing the cars of the "tax cheats" and it was the Excise man who was breaking the Law
Within the EU, it's now the declining airline baggage allowance that is a break to personal imports but if you can provide your own transport.
Even outside the UK/EU, there are anomalies. Aviation (and other) books costing £50 in the UK can be bought from the USA for $40. Add on cheap (at present) P&P and you can save a wack importing as there is no import duty on books!
In the pre EU days perhaps. However, it took years for Customs & Excise to accept they could not charge any tax on purchases made by individuals who had already paid full tax in another EU State. All that confiscated wine, beer and ciggies not to mention crushing the cars of the "tax cheats" and it was the Excise man who was breaking the Law
Within the EU, it's now the declining airline baggage allowance that is a break to personal imports but if you can provide your own transport.
Even outside the UK/EU, there are anomalies. Aviation (and other) books costing £50 in the UK can be bought from the USA for $40. Add on cheap (at present) P&P and you can save a wack importing as there is no import duty on books!
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I have a pal in HMRC who used to deal with these kind of investigations. Some of the tales he told would make you weep, such as the guys who'll take thirty odd no hopers off a council estate, send them to the Canaries & back same day, all loaded down with as many cigarettes as you can fit in an ambulant chav/ned/useless member of society demonination as required.
The weeze relied on the known short staffing in the green channel & the relatively light punishments if caught - I.e. a fine the first couple of times, at which point you're dropped from the crew & replaced by another ne'er do well.
So when you extrapolate the attempts that go on with this kind of thing daily, I'm not persuaded at all that it's a victimless crime As Arthur believes. Over time, the duty evaded adds up and besides, by it's very nature, we can only guess at the scale - not everyone gets caught right?
The weeze relied on the known short staffing in the green channel & the relatively light punishments if caught - I.e. a fine the first couple of times, at which point you're dropped from the crew & replaced by another ne'er do well.
So when you extrapolate the attempts that go on with this kind of thing daily, I'm not persuaded at all that it's a victimless crime As Arthur believes. Over time, the duty evaded adds up and besides, by it's very nature, we can only guess at the scale - not everyone gets caught right?
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The Canaries like the Channel Islands are "Special Territories" within the EU and so import VAT is payable. Said chav's only had to go to Calais!
Way back in 1979 you could not leave the UK with more than £50 in cash. Now it seems you can fire off money all over the place. That's a big help for migrant workers especially within the EU but a worry for HMR&C and Security having to watch out for tax evasion and terrorist funding!
Within the EU many tax rates have now been "harmonised" although differences remain. For example, Denmark levies VAT at 25% and in Ireland Corporation Tax is at 10%.
End of off thread Taxation and Finance drift
Way back in 1979 you could not leave the UK with more than £50 in cash. Now it seems you can fire off money all over the place. That's a big help for migrant workers especially within the EU but a worry for HMR&C and Security having to watch out for tax evasion and terrorist funding!
Within the EU many tax rates have now been "harmonised" although differences remain. For example, Denmark levies VAT at 25% and in Ireland Corporation Tax is at 10%.
End of off thread Taxation and Finance drift
I suggest that the Holier than thou attitude by some posters is significant in that it clearly shows one thing; those posters were out of touch with reality and had/have no idea of what is going on around them beyond tea and medals. Spiffing.
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Tankertrashnav.
Yes of course it is just those overpaid greedy SNCO's. Because we all know that Officers are indeed gentlemen and would never stoop so low.
With that in mind, stand fast all those officers who have NEVER exceeded their customs allowance at any time, or exceeded a speed limit, or never ignored the bottle to throttle rule.
Remainder one pace forward
I've been trampled!
Agree though, don't so it unless you are prepared to face the consequences. I don't agree with your sweeping generalisation of SNCO's, that is just a tad crass.
Yes of course it is just those overpaid greedy SNCO's. Because we all know that Officers are indeed gentlemen and would never stoop so low.
With that in mind, stand fast all those officers who have NEVER exceeded their customs allowance at any time, or exceeded a speed limit, or never ignored the bottle to throttle rule.
Remainder one pace forward
I've been trampled!
Agree though, don't so it unless you are prepared to face the consequences. I don't agree with your sweeping generalisation of SNCO's, that is just a tad crass.
Ron - If you read my post again you will see that what I am passing is my son's experience as an army NCO. Quite naturally he has much more to do with other NCOs than officers - no doubt officers who move outside of his circles are also represented in the ranks of those who cant help adding to their incomes by illegal activities. And we're not talking about exceeding duty free allowance by 200 cigs here, but organised smuggling.
I rather think you have read more into my post than I put in. I served as an officer and saw some dodgy things going on among other officers, he is serving as an NCO and is seeing the same things happening among his fellow sergeants and WO's - simple as that.
I rather think you have read more into my post than I put in. I served as an officer and saw some dodgy things going on among other officers, he is serving as an NCO and is seeing the same things happening among his fellow sergeants and WO's - simple as that.