A400M Flight Testing Progress
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
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From: UK East Anglia
Now an A400M fan
I am enjoying this thread. You guys are great.
I think I have previously exposed my concerns about this A400M. (I becme loosely involved in 1995 and then on several A400M working groups before I finsihed last year- does that qualify me to comment? - I refer to another thread)
my point is that there is the art of the possible. A400M could probably do much of the role. not to the same extent as Nimrod so far as ASW goes.
Then there is the art of the affordable. we just have to face it as a nation we are destitute.
When I started work with the HJPT (before J and K merged then TriStar and then us S&AD people joined) there was a whole team looking after a proposed tanker version of the J. They were soon reallocated other dreamsheet tasks. One of those was an ASRA pallet.
We always finished up with something far less capable than desired. Difficult job to ballance the art of the possible with the art of the affordable.
I have no doubt that A400M (although late) will be worth waiting for and when in service it will grow the arms and legs to make it do all these wonderful things.
Now I must knock up some sketches to show how to drop torpedos and sonobuoys, fit a MAD boom and ESL pods (Fraudian slip for those Nimrod R men) Ah, there's another idea we will fit an ISO container full of Rivet Joint electrics. Sorry I think they did something similar on Snoopy.
A400M all things to all men. just need a good few more of them
I think I have previously exposed my concerns about this A400M. (I becme loosely involved in 1995 and then on several A400M working groups before I finsihed last year- does that qualify me to comment? - I refer to another thread)
my point is that there is the art of the possible. A400M could probably do much of the role. not to the same extent as Nimrod so far as ASW goes.
Then there is the art of the affordable. we just have to face it as a nation we are destitute.
When I started work with the HJPT (before J and K merged then TriStar and then us S&AD people joined) there was a whole team looking after a proposed tanker version of the J. They were soon reallocated other dreamsheet tasks. One of those was an ASRA pallet.
We always finished up with something far less capable than desired. Difficult job to ballance the art of the possible with the art of the affordable.
I have no doubt that A400M (although late) will be worth waiting for and when in service it will grow the arms and legs to make it do all these wonderful things.
Now I must knock up some sketches to show how to drop torpedos and sonobuoys, fit a MAD boom and ESL pods (Fraudian slip for those Nimrod R men) Ah, there's another idea we will fit an ISO container full of Rivet Joint electrics. Sorry I think they did something similar on Snoopy.
A400M all things to all men. just need a good few more of them
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 782
Likes: 21
From: netherlands
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
From: UK East Anglia
Probably an A400M
Re #240
I rest my case - we are not joined up. who allowed squillions to be spent equipping Merlin with probes without the means to exploit them when we were broke.
The money could have been better spent or left in the pot to be spent on benefits for us pensioners.
In years to come when we have all saved our pennies we will probably have enough to pay Airbus for the Mod kit. the French will have completed all the trials so nothing left for Q2 to investigate. And the major stakeholder in the CTT is?
I rest my case - we are not joined up. who allowed squillions to be spent equipping Merlin with probes without the means to exploit them when we were broke.
The money could have been better spent or left in the pot to be spent on benefits for us pensioners.
In years to come when we have all saved our pennies we will probably have enough to pay Airbus for the Mod kit. the French will have completed all the trials so nothing left for Q2 to investigate. And the major stakeholder in the CTT is?
"The INTRODUCER"
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: London
"The INTRODUCER"
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: London
That is not correct. MSN7 was not at the Paris Airshow and has not been delivered.
The aircraft in the static park at Paris was MSN8 - the second aircraft for France - and the display was performed by another aircraft altogether. On Thursday night MSN8 left the show and returned on Friday from Villacoublay with President Hollande on board for his visit to the show.
MSN7 will be delivered to France in the coming weeks and is due to fly in the Bastille Day parade on 14 July.
The aircraft in the static park at Paris was MSN8 - the second aircraft for France - and the display was performed by another aircraft altogether. On Thursday night MSN8 left the show and returned on Friday from Villacoublay with President Hollande on board for his visit to the show.
MSN7 will be delivered to France in the coming weeks and is due to fly in the Bastille Day parade on 14 July.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 782
Likes: 21
From: netherlands
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 644
Likes: 6
From: Old Hampshire
Not the best demo of the ac's capabilities as neither of those vehicles will be used by the British Army in the next few years
However looking at the photo the line in the Aircraft Spec that these loads should not need shoaring has either been deleted / ignored by Airbus and the PT. Mind you it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't yet another example of JATE applying SOP to a system which still hasn't had any procedures written for it let alone had them made standard.
I think the A400M bay is dimensioned for 2 Apaches, or NH90 / Chinook. And serious vehicles. E.g Warthdog and this one
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
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From: UK East Anglia
VX275 is spot on.
the envelope based on two Landrovers side by side was cast in 1995. At the time the spare wheels were being strapped on the side of the landrover not on the bonnet. necessitating widening the fuselage by around 6" (150mm in metric) from that proposed by Airbus.
The spec for the loads was referred to as Exhibit A. I never saw it updated in 10 years. the copy I held was an A5 spiral bound booklet about 1 1/2" thick.
I know Airbus struggled to keep the weight within that predicted. Growth ate into payload.
I lost touch with the detail two years ago but I know the team at ABW worked hard to get the best deal for UK. I don't remember ever seeing some of the bomb proof vehicles being used in Afg ever getting into the Exhibit A. Particularly the SUPACAT HMT variants. (Jackal) I know the French and Germans had a big six wheeler similar to the Saracen which was driving the design.
I am sure the highly professional guys at JATE would not exceed the agreed floor loadings. I understand they have been working closely with Airbus in Bremen. I think they would have the rear cabin mock up at Brize by now to be developing all the load plans.
Folks do realise that the flat floor is only 1/2 a yard longer than that of a stretched Herc. but you can get a SWB landrover on the ramp. It's great to have the width to walk around stuff though.
the envelope based on two Landrovers side by side was cast in 1995. At the time the spare wheels were being strapped on the side of the landrover not on the bonnet. necessitating widening the fuselage by around 6" (150mm in metric) from that proposed by Airbus.
The spec for the loads was referred to as Exhibit A. I never saw it updated in 10 years. the copy I held was an A5 spiral bound booklet about 1 1/2" thick.
I know Airbus struggled to keep the weight within that predicted. Growth ate into payload.
I lost touch with the detail two years ago but I know the team at ABW worked hard to get the best deal for UK. I don't remember ever seeing some of the bomb proof vehicles being used in Afg ever getting into the Exhibit A. Particularly the SUPACAT HMT variants. (Jackal) I know the French and Germans had a big six wheeler similar to the Saracen which was driving the design.
I am sure the highly professional guys at JATE would not exceed the agreed floor loadings. I understand they have been working closely with Airbus in Bremen. I think they would have the rear cabin mock up at Brize by now to be developing all the load plans.
Folks do realise that the flat floor is only 1/2 a yard longer than that of a stretched Herc. but you can get a SWB landrover on the ramp. It's great to have the width to walk around stuff though.