Best value aircraft that's been in the RAF
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Sorry Jind, but Leon is correct. The Hunter was a great aircraft, but the Hawk will stay in service longer.
After 30 years or so the Hunter became a interesting toy.
At the 60 year point the Hawk will still be an Operational Trainer.
And the best low cost jet we have ever made.
After 30 years or so the Hunter became a interesting toy.
At the 60 year point the Hawk will still be an Operational Trainer.
And the best low cost jet we have ever made.
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Although there were not very many of them built (23 or 23) no PR9 was lost in RAF service, to my knowledge. One crashed during what seems to have been development flying by Short Bros, with the unfortunate death of the navigator.
I flew them in Cyprus from '61 to '64 and it was a very interesting first tour for me; perhaps not so for my 3rd tour navigator!
I flew them in Cyprus from '61 to '64 and it was a very interesting first tour for me; perhaps not so for my 3rd tour navigator!
Originally Posted by A2QFI
no PR9 was lost in RAF service, to my knowledge.
-- Tim L
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TimL, please check PMs. I defer to your superior knowledge. I left the PR9 in 1964 and may not have heard of the events of which you have personal knowledge, and which are clearly correct.
Last edited by A2QFI; 9th Jan 2011 at 16:38.
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It has to be the Wessex V/2 - tough as nuts and needing a fairly unsophisticted crew - believe me!
Also the only helicopter ever to down a modern jet fighter........and win.........
Also the only helicopter ever to down a modern jet fighter........and win.........
An RAF Canberra PR7 was shot down over the Bekaa Valley in 1956 by a Syrian Meteor:
If you're looking for a PR9 accident then look at this: ASN Aircraft accident 11-OCT-1958 English Electric Canberra PR.9 XH129
It's about a PR9 loss on 11 Oct 1958. On 18 Jan 67 the RAF Cat 4'd a PR9 as it went off the runway at Luqa into a barrier followed by the loss of XH130 (PR.9 (13Sqn) - 25 Mar 69. Crashed at Hal Far on approach to Luqa) and XH164 (PR.9 (13Sqn) - 7 Jan 69. Crashed on appraoch to Luqa). Also the Chileans lost a PR9 in 1983.
iRaven
During the build up to the Suez crisis, an RAF Canberra PR7 WH799 flown by Flt Lt B L Hunter, along with his Navigator Flg Off. R Urquhart-Pullen and Flt Lt A C Small, a pilot who went along to watch the Canberra's tail using the astro-navigation periscope, took off from Akrotiri in Cyprus for a photo-reconnaissance sortie over Syria. The purpose of the sortie was to monitor an apparent build up of Soviet supplied combat aircraft in Syria. Unfortunately, WH799 was shot down over Syria by two Meteor F.8s flown by Syrian AF pilots al-Garudry and al-Assasa, the latter being the CO of the sole SAF Meteor squadron. Sadly, the navigator Flying Officer Urquhart-Pullen was killed attempting to bale out, but Flight Lieutenants Hunter and Small ejected and after treatment in Beirut Military Hospital were later repatriated.
The ground controlled interception of the Canberra was directed by Major Moukabri of the Syrian AF
using an interception plan devised by Squadron Leader Tahir Zaki of the Egyptian AF who was serving as air attache at the Egyptian embassy in Damascus at the time.
The ground controlled interception of the Canberra was directed by Major Moukabri of the Syrian AF
using an interception plan devised by Squadron Leader Tahir Zaki of the Egyptian AF who was serving as air attache at the Egyptian embassy in Damascus at the time.
It's about a PR9 loss on 11 Oct 1958. On 18 Jan 67 the RAF Cat 4'd a PR9 as it went off the runway at Luqa into a barrier followed by the loss of XH130 (PR.9 (13Sqn) - 25 Mar 69. Crashed at Hal Far on approach to Luqa) and XH164 (PR.9 (13Sqn) - 7 Jan 69. Crashed on appraoch to Luqa). Also the Chileans lost a PR9 in 1983.
iRaven
Last edited by iRaven; 9th Jan 2011 at 17:06.
No PR9 lost in operational service ....
A2QFI
On 3rd May 1977 a 39 Sqn Canberra (PR9) returning to its base at RAF Wyton crashed two miles short of the runway into a housing estate at Oxmoor in Huntingdon.
XH 137 Flt Lt (Jim ?) Armitage and Flt Lt (Laurie ?) Hayes. Apologies if spelt incorrectly.
It was my very first day on my very first Sqn in the RAF. They are buried in the cemetry at Houghton village.
A sad time.
On 3rd May 1977 a 39 Sqn Canberra (PR9) returning to its base at RAF Wyton crashed two miles short of the runway into a housing estate at Oxmoor in Huntingdon.
XH 137 Flt Lt (Jim ?) Armitage and Flt Lt (Laurie ?) Hayes. Apologies if spelt incorrectly.
It was my very first day on my very first Sqn in the RAF. They are buried in the cemetry at Houghton village.
A sad time.
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It's hard to see past the Hawk as "best value for money". They seem to have been around forever and looks like they will have many more years ahead of them (let's face it, where would the MOD get the money to replace them?).
cazatou,
My apologies - thanks for the information. Though I don't think that serving with 2 sqns and a trials unit really seals victory for the Stringbag!
xenolith
Puma - hmmm...
My apologies - thanks for the information. Though I don't think that serving with 2 sqns and a trials unit really seals victory for the Stringbag!
xenolith
Puma - hmmm...
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Mine would be the Wessex....just went on and on and built like the proverbial.
VC10........ never lost one and still going strong.
Hunter
Hawk
One I disagree with was the Hawker Siddeley Andover, this was an expensive aircraft involving a lot of modifications to bring it into service, the HP Herald actually beat it hands down in both costs, operational useage and would of had a rear ramp AKA herc without the need to squat down, but the Government of the day were determined to see Handley Page out of business so went with the far inferior Andover to see him off.
bristol siddeley | armstrong whitworth | 1961 | 1269 | Flight Archive
VC10........ never lost one and still going strong.
Hunter
Hawk
One I disagree with was the Hawker Siddeley Andover, this was an expensive aircraft involving a lot of modifications to bring it into service, the HP Herald actually beat it hands down in both costs, operational useage and would of had a rear ramp AKA herc without the need to squat down, but the Government of the day were determined to see Handley Page out of business so went with the far inferior Andover to see him off.
bristol siddeley | armstrong whitworth | 1961 | 1269 | Flight Archive
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jaj,
That's the very one! Was it an IL76, I thought it was a Cub but the video, which I too have, is not very clear.
So we are both right.
Bucc XX901 kills a 'transport' and JP233 kills a Mig!
Still trying to work out which fg off you were on 17!
Foldie
I also recall a Pave-spike video (I may have a copy) of an IL76 being LGB'd. Don't know if that was ever 'claimed' by the Bucc fraternity.
So we are both right.
one of the only recent RAF bombers
Still trying to work out which fg off you were on 17!
Foldie
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Best Value...
It has to be the De Havilland Mosquito.
Designed and built as a privately funded project, then presented to the RAF Test Pilots as the finished article. Were they impressed!
Went on to be:
Day Fighter
Night Fighter
Unarmed Bomber
Fighter/Bomber
Ground Attack
Photo Recce
Maritime Strike
Trainer
Airliner (Imperial Airways low-level to Stockholm with Pax/Diplomatic Mail)
Pathfinder
Precision Low-Level Bomber eg Amiens Jail Bust
Target Tower
Truly the quintessential MRCA, plus mostly made of wood, simply the best value.
It has to be the De Havilland Mosquito.
Designed and built as a privately funded project, then presented to the RAF Test Pilots as the finished article. Were they impressed!
Went on to be:
Day Fighter
Night Fighter
Unarmed Bomber
Fighter/Bomber
Ground Attack
Photo Recce
Maritime Strike
Trainer
Airliner (Imperial Airways low-level to Stockholm with Pax/Diplomatic Mail)
Pathfinder
Precision Low-Level Bomber eg Amiens Jail Bust
Target Tower
Truly the quintessential MRCA, plus mostly made of wood, simply the best value.
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I'll give it a go. How about a squadron of F4-J's after the Falklands?
Taken out of the desert, given a wash and hoover. Were they good value for money? (Crouches down and prepares for incoming)
Taken out of the desert, given a wash and hoover. Were they good value for money? (Crouches down and prepares for incoming)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
On reflection, the Vulcan. Used once in anger and used to stop a war for 25 years.