2011: New Year's Honours for Service personnel and Defence civilian
To those who say there should be no difference between commissioned and non-commissioned ranks when rewarding loyal service etc - why are only non-commissioned ranks eligible for award of the Long Service & Good Conduct Medal? I don't think any officers would argue that they should be eligible for it; it's just that tradition has seen fit to reward the two branches in different ways. Most officers don't get any kind of long service award; the MBEs, OBEs etc are very much in the minority - so when you consider the LSGCM the non-commissioned ranks actually do better!
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Officers can be awarded the LS & GC Medal!
"An Officer shall be eligible for award of the LS&GCM if 12 or more of the 15 years service has been in the ranks and provided that the other criteria have been met. An Officer shall be eligible for award of the Clasp if 22 or more of the 30 years service has been in the ranks and provided that the other criteria have been met."
Full gen at: Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | Veterans | Medals | LS&GCM (RAF)
"An Officer shall be eligible for award of the LS&GCM if 12 or more of the 15 years service has been in the ranks and provided that the other criteria have been met. An Officer shall be eligible for award of the Clasp if 22 or more of the 30 years service has been in the ranks and provided that the other criteria have been met."
Full gen at: Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | Veterans | Medals | LS&GCM (RAF)
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Timings
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VMT. Your post shown as 0517, so the US is a bit off.
Melchett, it was the post times not the NYHL times I was querying.
I have a large glass of cheer in my hand for all colleagues in combat. Return home safely and God Speed.
VMT. Your post shown as 0517, so the US is a bit off.
Melchett, it was the post times not the NYHL times I was querying.
I have a large glass of cheer in my hand for all colleagues in combat. Return home safely and God Speed.
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Wouldn't you expect all officers to be of impeccable conduct 
? If so, what's the point of dishing something out, that doesn't have stand out value? I imagine that the middle ranking officer without one, for whatever reason, would not have much authority and credibility with the troops. Although, the reverse may be true of course..
? If so, what's the point of dishing something out, that doesn't have stand out value? I imagine that the middle ranking officer without one, for whatever reason, would not have much authority and credibility with the troops. Although, the reverse may be true of course..
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Yep, that's about right.
They can manage Long Service or perhaps Good Conduct.
Problem is Long Service AND Good Conduct . . . do remember, they're all practising to be politicians and diplomats
They can manage Long Service or perhaps Good Conduct.
Problem is Long Service AND Good Conduct . . . do remember, they're all practising to be politicians and diplomats
cazatou
A ballot was taken in the late 70's as to whether or not Officers should receive a LSGC medal. The result was a substantial NO vote IIRC.
Surely, officers are supposed to be of good conduct by default! It would be good to see some officers on jankers though. Perhaps for being late/not turning up at all to raise the ensign in the morning.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Let's not fool ourselves here, the LS & GC medal is not known as the "Undetected Crime badge" for nothing, and its recipients should be rightfully proud of their ability to effectively cover their tracks.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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FWIW I think that all servicemen should be elligable for the LS&GCM. Equally the honours system (medal awards) should not be biased by rank. There comes a time when everybody is an ex-serviceman regardless of rank and LS&GCM sounds good on a CV as just recognition of service. It has integrity as I know of several servicemen who do not have it despite having served the time. My understanding is that the 15 year qualification times start again after a formal misdemenour, and rehabilitation of offenders and all that...
I am not a fan of tossers using their former rank in civvy street though, a view made because those that do are invariably complete dipsticks.
I am not a fan of tossers using their former rank in civvy street though, a view made because those that do are invariably complete dipsticks.
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Afc & Qcvsa
It seems that no awards of the AFC (Air Force Cross) or QCVSA (Queen's Commendation for Valuable Service in the Air) were made in the recent 2011 New Year Honours list.
Searching the RAF, RN & Army lists of awards has produced no recipients.
Is this the first Honours List in which neither an AFC or a QCVSA has been awarded?
Ref: post #3 by Green Flash 31 Dec 10
The Air Force Cross is awarded in recognition of exemplary gallantry in the air on non-active operations.
The Queen's Commendation for Valuable Service recognises meritorious service during, or in support of, operations.
Searching the RAF, RN & Army lists of awards has produced no recipients.
Is this the first Honours List in which neither an AFC or a QCVSA has been awarded?
Ref: post #3 by Green Flash 31 Dec 10
The Air Force Cross is awarded in recognition of exemplary gallantry in the air on non-active operations.
The Queen's Commendation for Valuable Service recognises meritorious service during, or in support of, operations.
Last edited by curvedsky; 5th Jan 2011 at 08:09. Reason: added footnotes
Perhaps the lack of AFC/QCVSA is an indication of the normalisation of current operations in the minds of the awarding committees this time around, or maybe the current crop of aircrew are just better than their predecessors, making the exceptional seem mundane?
or maybe the current crop of aircrew are just better than their predecessors, making the exceptional seem mundane?
Or perhaps you were just winding us up?
HNY
TTN
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Chaps
Nothing at all to do with lack of gallantry, ops becoming the norm or anything else. The NYHL and QBHL only contain non-op awards. Any op hons - DFC, AFC, QCVS etc - are published in the twice yearly op hons list. The Op Hons Lists are normally published Mar and Sep. Last one contained Ian Fortune's DFC. There are always some amazing deeds of gallantry in the lists.
Nothing at all to do with lack of gallantry, ops becoming the norm or anything else. The NYHL and QBHL only contain non-op awards. Any op hons - DFC, AFC, QCVS etc - are published in the twice yearly op hons list. The Op Hons Lists are normally published Mar and Sep. Last one contained Ian Fortune's DFC. There are always some amazing deeds of gallantry in the lists.
Last edited by CheapAsChips; 4th Jan 2011 at 15:24.
TTN and Piltdown Man
PM I commented on another thread (can't remember the link) about a photo of some 4* admiral recently appointed, who apart from his KCB, Jubilee etc didnt have a gallantry/campaign medal of any description on display. I said at the time that things haven't changed since Gilbert said "stick close to your desks and never go to sea, and you all may be leaders of the Queen's navee"! - TTN
Perhaps my post No 17 on the New Year http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ours-list.html just a year ago may give some idea of the Royal Navy's standpoint on honours. In any case, any four star Admiral nowadays will almost certainly have to have had one or two sea commands in the ranks of both Commander and Captain, and plenty of seatime prior to promotion to Commander , to reach his exalted rank, so your Gilbertian take may be both a little off beam and a bit hard on the Admiral concerned.
Additionally, the Royal Navy's potential for seagoing officers receiving awards, rather than honours, has been rather limited of late, and noting my point about submarine commanding officers such as the present CINCFLEET.
Jack
PS PPRuNe Pop's 2216 post is shown correctly timed on my screen - what's a minute between friends?
PM I commented on another thread (can't remember the link) about a photo of some 4* admiral recently appointed, who apart from his KCB, Jubilee etc didnt have a gallantry/campaign medal of any description on display. I said at the time that things haven't changed since Gilbert said "stick close to your desks and never go to sea, and you all may be leaders of the Queen's navee"! - TTN
Perhaps my post No 17 on the New Year http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ours-list.html just a year ago may give some idea of the Royal Navy's standpoint on honours. In any case, any four star Admiral nowadays will almost certainly have to have had one or two sea commands in the ranks of both Commander and Captain, and plenty of seatime prior to promotion to Commander , to reach his exalted rank, so your Gilbertian take may be both a little off beam and a bit hard on the Admiral concerned.
Additionally, the Royal Navy's potential for seagoing officers receiving awards, rather than honours, has been rather limited of late, and noting my point about submarine commanding officers such as the present CINCFLEET.
Jack
PS PPRuNe Pop's 2216 post is shown correctly timed on my screen - what's a minute between friends?
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curvedsky,
You abbreviated the description of the AFC justification. In full it reads:
"an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying, though not in active operations against the enemy"
The RAF's senior serving officer, MoRAF Sir Mike Beetham was awarded his AFC for his 'devotion to duty' as OC 214 Sqdn, while successfully completing the in-flight refueling trials of the probe and drogue system for the RAF.
Michael Beetham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Edited to add the Wiki URL.
You abbreviated the description of the AFC justification. In full it reads:
"an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying, though not in active operations against the enemy"
The RAF's senior serving officer, MoRAF Sir Mike Beetham was awarded his AFC for his 'devotion to duty' as OC 214 Sqdn, while successfully completing the in-flight refueling trials of the probe and drogue system for the RAF.
Michael Beetham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Edited to add the Wiki URL.
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Afc & Qcvsa awards
ian16th,
Thank you for your comments on the AFC award. The description that I used was from the current MOD page, Defence for Veterans. This page can be seen in full at:
Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | Veterans | Medals | Air Force Cross
The award of the QCVSA seems to have faded away. The equivalent award today is perhaps the QCBA & QCVS (without the A which is rather sad) and this nomenclature is shown in the last Operational Honours and Awards List:
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | History and Honour | Operational Honours and Awards List: 24 September 2010
Thank you for your comments on the AFC award. The description that I used was from the current MOD page, Defence for Veterans. This page can be seen in full at:
Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | Veterans | Medals | Air Force Cross
The award of the QCVSA seems to have faded away. The equivalent award today is perhaps the QCBA & QCVS (without the A which is rather sad) and this nomenclature is shown in the last Operational Honours and Awards List:
Ministry of Defence | Defence News | History and Honour | Operational Honours and Awards List: 24 September 2010