Civil Service Redundancy Package
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Civil Service Redundancy Package
Just read (in a 6 day old newspaper, obviously) that UK Civil Service redundancy package is now reduced from 36 to 21 months pay. It is for voluntary redundancy but very, very different from UK Armed Forces package which will be down from 9 (or 6 months, depending on pension scheme) to 3 months in April 2013.
Have I read this wrong or does this seem a very good deal?
Have I read this wrong or does this seem a very good deal?
The civil service have unions, and leadership with the minerals to fight the governments intended slaying of their redundancy packages. They went to court and won.
The reductions in our redundancy deals were slipped quietly under the radar, with the government safe in the knowledge that the only obligation they have to servicemen and women is a moral one, and that isn't worth the paper it's written on. Redundancy, allowances, pay, pensions...... Why shouldn't the government feel able to reduce them as they feel fit? It isn't as if we are in a position to do anything about it.
Come the revolution!
The reductions in our redundancy deals were slipped quietly under the radar, with the government safe in the knowledge that the only obligation they have to servicemen and women is a moral one, and that isn't worth the paper it's written on. Redundancy, allowances, pay, pensions...... Why shouldn't the government feel able to reduce them as they feel fit? It isn't as if we are in a position to do anything about it.
Come the revolution!
Bluntly its like comparing chalk and cheese. The CS and the Military operate on totally different pay and allowances systems, and its very difficult to draw a direct comparison between the two.
The CS system on paper appears generous, but I believe that the most generous payments are reserved for very long serving individuals on voluntary terms. For the vast majority of serving CS, the payments are very considerably lower - I could be wrong here, but IIRC its in the region of a months salary for every year worked.
Please do not think that the CS about to be made redundant will all be walking away with nearly two years salary, as the vast majority won't be. Also remember that pay in the CS is a lot lower than in the military at pretty much every level, so while 21 months may sound a lot, when the average civil servant earns under £20K per year, in reality they're walking away with well under £40K at best, and in reality for most it will be nearer £20K. They also do not get the same pension situation as the armed forces -which for longer serving forces personnel will be a safety net if they are eligible for it to be paid on leaving - CS won't see theirs till proper retirement age.
I do think the cut to 3 months is a disgrace though.
The CS system on paper appears generous, but I believe that the most generous payments are reserved for very long serving individuals on voluntary terms. For the vast majority of serving CS, the payments are very considerably lower - I could be wrong here, but IIRC its in the region of a months salary for every year worked.
Please do not think that the CS about to be made redundant will all be walking away with nearly two years salary, as the vast majority won't be. Also remember that pay in the CS is a lot lower than in the military at pretty much every level, so while 21 months may sound a lot, when the average civil servant earns under £20K per year, in reality they're walking away with well under £40K at best, and in reality for most it will be nearer £20K. They also do not get the same pension situation as the armed forces -which for longer serving forces personnel will be a safety net if they are eligible for it to be paid on leaving - CS won't see theirs till proper retirement age.
I do think the cut to 3 months is a disgrace though.
Right folks, I have my wifes latest CS pension statement from last month. For her 20yrs service her pension would be £4,714 per year with a lump sum of £14,143. At age 60 they reckon it will be £5,845 with a lump sum of £17,537. Only the few 'big boys' get the real money!
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Jimlad is correct. The deal is 21 months if you VER, 15 months if you are CERed. The 21 months VER will only be paid to those that have been in the longest with the 1 month/years service controlling it.
My establishment has just released over half our workforce, most left on the old terms. The rest of us go in a couple of years on the new terms, (the vast majority will only take the 12 months as it will be CER although under the new terms the employer MUST offer individuals the choise of taking either VER or CER).
The obvious impact on the choise is when insurances are involved. If you VER companies will obviously opt not to pay out as you left by choise. Job seekers will not be paid, apart from getting 6 months on a Contribution base.
Just to let you have an idea of the differences Jim talks about, an SAC tech with 3 years service gets at least £2000 more than I am getting with over 25 years in the RAF and 10 years with the MOD as an engineer. I chose to come into MOD so that was my own doing but there is an overwhelming idea that we are all fat cats. The real fact is many of us are doing the exact work some of you guys are doing for way less pay and pensions, (and that includes working in Afghanistan).
My establishment has just released over half our workforce, most left on the old terms. The rest of us go in a couple of years on the new terms, (the vast majority will only take the 12 months as it will be CER although under the new terms the employer MUST offer individuals the choise of taking either VER or CER).
The obvious impact on the choise is when insurances are involved. If you VER companies will obviously opt not to pay out as you left by choise. Job seekers will not be paid, apart from getting 6 months on a Contribution base.
Just to let you have an idea of the differences Jim talks about, an SAC tech with 3 years service gets at least £2000 more than I am getting with over 25 years in the RAF and 10 years with the MOD as an engineer. I chose to come into MOD so that was my own doing but there is an overwhelming idea that we are all fat cats. The real fact is many of us are doing the exact work some of you guys are doing for way less pay and pensions, (and that includes working in Afghanistan).
Really an idiot......
So the phrase "...and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground...." doesn't include the civil servants in MOD in your deluded opinion...
I was being polite in the choice of the word "idiot"!
Rats - Jimlad beat me to it...
So the phrase "...and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground...." doesn't include the civil servants in MOD in your deluded opinion...
I was being polite in the choice of the word "idiot"!
Rats - Jimlad beat me to it...
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Depends on how you want to spin it
"Military Aircrew"
"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."
Seems to imply that it's a forum solely for Army, Navy and Airforce folk from around the world but hey that's just my humble opinion.
Edited to add I personally could not give a rats arse about who posts what in here, that's the job of the moderators
"Military Aircrew"
"A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."
Seems to imply that it's a forum solely for Army, Navy and Airforce folk from around the world but hey that's just my humble opinion.
Edited to add I personally could not give a rats arse about who posts what in here, that's the job of the moderators
Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 28th Dec 2010 at 13:07.
Really an idiot....
Who said I was a civil servant, pen pushing or otherwise...? Wrong!
Maybe some day when you grow up, or if you actually develop into a decent human being, you might learn the art of appreciating what other people do without actually having done it yourself...
Who said I was a civil servant, pen pushing or otherwise...? Wrong!
Maybe some day when you grow up, or if you actually develop into a decent human being, you might learn the art of appreciating what other people do without actually having done it yourself...
Sun Who, when one lives in glass houses, it behoves one not to throw stones! Remind us who it was who, only yesterday at 2140, wrote:
I left the RAF 2 years ago after 25 years...
I'm very much an ex and I suspect, if all us 'exes' stopped posting, the boards would be very much quieter.
Oh god, this has turned into yet another CS bashing event - what a surprise.
Look, I'm a MOD CS whose spent years working in direct support of UK forces, both in the UK and Iraq, doing all sorts of stuff, best not discussed here, which has directly impacted on keeping UK troops alive. I'm also a reservist, and I've spent years doing a near identical job in uniform, both in the UK and Afghanistan. I'm concious that in the eyes of some, confessing to being a civilian and a partimer makes me untermensch. However, I am bloody proud of the fact that in both civvies and uniform I've been able to make a difference, that I've helped do things that have helped to keep people from all 3 services in one piece.
I'm not going to pretend that the CS is perfect - its far from perfect and we have our fair share of muppets. However, for every muppet we have, we have plenty of first rate, incredibly dedicated people who genuinely give a damn about supporting the forces to the best of our ability. There are a lot of CS out there who deploy (quite a few have done enough time to qualify for, but obviously not get, the ACSM) and we really do want to do the best we can for our forces colleauges. I'd say that the same ratio applies to the forces - I've spent years working purple, and have met some first rate types (particularly from the RAF), and have also met some throbbers in roughly the same proportion.
If CS sometimes seem a bit down, don't forget that we are working in an incredibly difficult environment where 1 in 3 MOD CS will be made redundant within the next 3 years. The total level of post SDSR cuts we face is 25,000 - thats 25% greater than the cuts all 3 services combined face.
Look, I'm a MOD CS whose spent years working in direct support of UK forces, both in the UK and Iraq, doing all sorts of stuff, best not discussed here, which has directly impacted on keeping UK troops alive. I'm also a reservist, and I've spent years doing a near identical job in uniform, both in the UK and Afghanistan. I'm concious that in the eyes of some, confessing to being a civilian and a partimer makes me untermensch. However, I am bloody proud of the fact that in both civvies and uniform I've been able to make a difference, that I've helped do things that have helped to keep people from all 3 services in one piece.
I'm not going to pretend that the CS is perfect - its far from perfect and we have our fair share of muppets. However, for every muppet we have, we have plenty of first rate, incredibly dedicated people who genuinely give a damn about supporting the forces to the best of our ability. There are a lot of CS out there who deploy (quite a few have done enough time to qualify for, but obviously not get, the ACSM) and we really do want to do the best we can for our forces colleauges. I'd say that the same ratio applies to the forces - I've spent years working purple, and have met some first rate types (particularly from the RAF), and have also met some throbbers in roughly the same proportion.
If CS sometimes seem a bit down, don't forget that we are working in an incredibly difficult environment where 1 in 3 MOD CS will be made redundant within the next 3 years. The total level of post SDSR cuts we face is 25,000 - thats 25% greater than the cuts all 3 services combined face.
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My resettlement interviews were with Coutts.
The man said 'Armed Forces are lumped in with ex - Offenders', we initially thought he was joking . . . he wasn't.
If you're leaving they are NOT INTERESTED in you. Oh, and by the way, if you're staying the same applies, but don't upset their spreadsheets.
Nobody is going to stick up for you if you don't do it yourself. The 'holier than thou' brigade will doubtless quote that HMAF are apolitical - only if you choose to stay that way. Loyalty is ONE WAY, either believe it or wait for it to be proven again . . . and again. . . and again. Even the obtuse eventually get the message.
No politician WANTS the armed forces, they just acknowledge that they NEED them to further their own personal and 'corporate' ends.
Is it offensive - damn right, but that's just it . . . you don't have any rights (because HMAF are apolitical - has a certain symmetry doesn't it?)
Best of luck guys and gals. Took me years to realise.
The man said 'Armed Forces are lumped in with ex - Offenders', we initially thought he was joking . . . he wasn't.
If you're leaving they are NOT INTERESTED in you. Oh, and by the way, if you're staying the same applies, but don't upset their spreadsheets.
Nobody is going to stick up for you if you don't do it yourself. The 'holier than thou' brigade will doubtless quote that HMAF are apolitical - only if you choose to stay that way. Loyalty is ONE WAY, either believe it or wait for it to be proven again . . . and again. . . and again. Even the obtuse eventually get the message.
No politician WANTS the armed forces, they just acknowledge that they NEED them to further their own personal and 'corporate' ends.
Is it offensive - damn right, but that's just it . . . you don't have any rights (because HMAF are apolitical - has a certain symmetry doesn't it?)
Best of luck guys and gals. Took me years to realise.
..... don't forget that we are working in an incredibly difficult environment where 1 in 3 MOD CS will be made redundant within the next 3 years.
With regard to the somewhat off-topic stuff about who can and can't post on these forums, I firmly believe that retirees, who then fall on to the Reservist List, are perfectly entitled to post here.
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dctyke: Right folks, I have my wifes latest CS pension statement from last month. For her 20yrs service her pension would be £4,714 per year with a lump sum of £14,143. At age 60 they reckon it will be £5,845 with a lump sum of £17,537. Only the few 'big boys' get the real money!