Lasors 2010
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Lasors 2010
A big shout to the CAA who have struggled against adversity to get LASORS 2010 issued before 2011.
Available online here.
The section most relevant to military pilots is Section D, which has a number of extra clarifications in it. Worth a read if you are in the process of getting your civvy licenses.
There is also a new set of credits to allow military pilots to get a PPL issued in Section C para 2.5.
Available online here.
The section most relevant to military pilots is Section D, which has a number of extra clarifications in it. Worth a read if you are in the process of getting your civvy licenses.
There is also a new set of credits to allow military pilots to get a PPL issued in Section C para 2.5.
Hi Alex.
Unfortunately there are some errors and omissions in LASORS2010, to which the attention of the CAA has been drawn. But these shouldn't affect military accreditation.
The PPL credits are unchanged - I persuaded the CAA to accept 'wings awarded' as the definition of a QSP for PPL purposes, rather than the full Monte Carlo of achieving operational status as it is for professional licences.
Note that the IMCR credits have changed if you hold a military IR on multi-pilot aircraft.
Unfortunately there are some errors and omissions in LASORS2010, to which the attention of the CAA has been drawn. But these shouldn't affect military accreditation.
The PPL credits are unchanged - I persuaded the CAA to accept 'wings awarded' as the definition of a QSP for PPL purposes, rather than the full Monte Carlo of achieving operational status as it is for professional licences.
Note that the IMCR credits have changed if you hold a military IR on multi-pilot aircraft.
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One omission I'm aware of is the detailed definition of 'Defence Contractor' in Sections D3.1 and D6.1
Ex-Qualified Service Pilots
An ex-QSP can claim any credits for which he qualifies, for a period of one year from the last date of service.
An ex-QSP employed by a Defence Contractor in flying-related duties (including as a Simulator Instructor), is deemed to be a QSP for licensing purposes. He can claim any credits for which he qualifies, for a period of one
year from the date of last flight in a military aeroplane/simulator.
The detailed CAA ruling on this is:
'It was and is considered appropriate for the credits to be available to ex QSPs employed by Defence Contractors where what flying they do is also carried out under and in accordance with HM Armed Forces/UK MoD rules but if that is not the case, they are not deemed to be QSPs for licensing purposes.'
Ex-Qualified Service Pilots
An ex-QSP can claim any credits for which he qualifies, for a period of one year from the last date of service.
An ex-QSP employed by a Defence Contractor in flying-related duties (including as a Simulator Instructor), is deemed to be a QSP for licensing purposes. He can claim any credits for which he qualifies, for a period of one
year from the date of last flight in a military aeroplane/simulator.
The detailed CAA ruling on this is:
'It was and is considered appropriate for the credits to be available to ex QSPs employed by Defence Contractors where what flying they do is also carried out under and in accordance with HM Armed Forces/UK MoD rules but if that is not the case, they are not deemed to be QSPs for licensing purposes.'
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Clarification
Apologies for dragging this up, however current circumstances necessitate! Does completion of Shawbury and 'Wings' certificate meet the definition of a QSP for issue of PPL(H)? Previous posts imply that this is correct, however, LASORS still state that a QSP only qualifies when in compliance with QR727, as on wings certificate, which I seem to remember implies that you need to achieve CR to qualify?
So I'm still slightly confused!! For most this doesn't matter, however, I was chopped on an OCF so didn't achieve CR status so would like to clarify as I'd like to get the PPL(H) then build into a CPL(H).
I'm not current, but meet the 5 yr allowance, have a PPL(A) so as I understand I only have to complete a type rating course and half a skills test. I e-mailed the CAA to see if I could get any further dispensation, but no!
So I'm still slightly confused!! For most this doesn't matter, however, I was chopped on an OCF so didn't achieve CR status so would like to clarify as I'd like to get the PPL(H) then build into a CPL(H).
I'm not current, but meet the 5 yr allowance, have a PPL(A) so as I understand I only have to complete a type rating course and half a skills test. I e-mailed the CAA to see if I could get any further dispensation, but no!
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Beagle, Shboy,
Has this been sorted yet? Beagle, how did you persuade the CAA? Is it laid down somewhere? Shboy, I'm in a similar position. Being able to skip the "specific requirements" and go straight for a type rating and skills test could save thousands of the pounds I don't have in my bank account!
Has this been sorted yet? Beagle, how did you persuade the CAA? Is it laid down somewhere? Shboy, I'm in a similar position. Being able to skip the "specific requirements" and go straight for a type rating and skills test could save thousands of the pounds I don't have in my bank account!
Last edited by AlphaSierra; 24th Mar 2011 at 09:40.
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The Future is EASA
If you are applying for a civil licence then hurry up. You will like the 2012 edition of LASORS , if it ever appears , even less.
The caa, yes caa , is about to become a regional office of EASA . European legislation is taking over from , and takes precedence over, UK legislation.
I do not think I am allowed to post a direct link to the relevant site. so if you go to the CAA website , then to 'Personnel Licensing' , then under 'Flight Crew' go to 'European Regulation and EASA' you find a link to 'Licensing of Pilots in the UK, v2'. Read this and weep.
If you are contemplating getting a civil licence then get a UK/JAA one asap. JAA licences will automatically become EASA licences.
The caa, yes caa , is about to become a regional office of EASA . European legislation is taking over from , and takes precedence over, UK legislation.
I do not think I am allowed to post a direct link to the relevant site. so if you go to the CAA website , then to 'Personnel Licensing' , then under 'Flight Crew' go to 'European Regulation and EASA' you find a link to 'Licensing of Pilots in the UK, v2'. Read this and weep.
If you are contemplating getting a civil licence then get a UK/JAA one asap. JAA licences will automatically become EASA licences.
Lasors 2010
The wording in LASORS 2010 C2.5 for QSP(H) accreditation towards PPL(H):
is the same as the LASORS 2010 C1.5 accreditation for QSP(A) towards PPL(A):
Only at CPL level and above do the additional clauses apply:
The easement was secured after I asked CFS to sponsor my request to the CAA some years ago.
In summary, if you've been awarded your 'wings' on helicopters, you will be considered to be a QSP(H) for PPL(H) purposes only.
Please note that you need to act before Apr 2012 as after then the only accreditation will be as agreed between the MoD and CAA towards EASA part-FCL licences. 22 Group has known this for well over a year now and there is no excuse for any tardiness in securing the new accreditation criteria!
For PPL(H) purposes only, where reference is made to a
Service Pilot this is defined as being a UK Service Pilot
(Helicopters) who has completed a recognised military
course of flying training in helicopters and has had the
award of the flying badge confirmed in compliance with
QR(RAF) J727*. In addition, the applicant must have
been qualified to act as Pilot-in-Command of military
registered aircraft.
*The term “flying badge” is used to include all badges
worn by personnel who have successfully completed a
prescribed course of flying training.
Service Pilot this is defined as being a UK Service Pilot
(Helicopters) who has completed a recognised military
course of flying training in helicopters and has had the
award of the flying badge confirmed in compliance with
QR(RAF) J727*. In addition, the applicant must have
been qualified to act as Pilot-in-Command of military
registered aircraft.
*The term “flying badge” is used to include all badges
worn by personnel who have successfully completed a
prescribed course of flying training.
For PPL(A) purposes only, where reference is made to a
Service Pilot this is defined as being a UK Service Pilot
(Aeroplanes) who has completed a recognised military
course of flying training and has had the award of the
flying badge confirmed in compliance with QR(RAF)
J727*. In addition, the applicant must have been qualified
to act as Pilot-in-Command of military registered aircraft.
* The term “flying badge” is used to include all badges
worn by personnel who have successfully completed a
prescribed course of flying training.
The term “flying badge” is used to include all badges
worn by personnel who have successfully completed a
prescribed course of flying training.
Service Pilot this is defined as being a UK Service Pilot
(Aeroplanes) who has completed a recognised military
course of flying training and has had the award of the
flying badge confirmed in compliance with QR(RAF)
J727*. In addition, the applicant must have been qualified
to act as Pilot-in-Command of military registered aircraft.
* The term “flying badge” is used to include all badges
worn by personnel who have successfully completed a
prescribed course of flying training.
The term “flying badge” is used to include all badges
worn by personnel who have successfully completed a
prescribed course of flying training.
The initial award of a flying badge is on a provisional basis.
It is not deemed to be fully earned until the holder has
successfully completed an operational conversion or
equivalent course and has joined an operational or
non-operational unit in the capacity for which the
provisional badge has been awarded. Joining
is defined for each Service as follows:-
a. RN: on issue of the Certificate of Competence.
b. Army and RM: on award of the badge (and
successful completion of conversion to type (CTT)
course).
c. RAF: On successful attainment of an appropriate
aircrew categorisation or qualification to undertake
productive flying duties (C categorisation or above,
B1 or above instructor category or CR status).
In addition, the applicant must have been qualified to act
as pilot-in-command of military registered aircraft.
It is not deemed to be fully earned until the holder has
successfully completed an operational conversion or
equivalent course and has joined an operational or
non-operational unit in the capacity for which the
provisional badge has been awarded. Joining
is defined for each Service as follows:-
a. RN: on issue of the Certificate of Competence.
b. Army and RM: on award of the badge (and
successful completion of conversion to type (CTT)
course).
c. RAF: On successful attainment of an appropriate
aircrew categorisation or qualification to undertake
productive flying duties (C categorisation or above,
B1 or above instructor category or CR status).
In addition, the applicant must have been qualified to act
as pilot-in-command of military registered aircraft.
In summary, if you've been awarded your 'wings' on helicopters, you will be considered to be a QSP(H) for PPL(H) purposes only.
Please note that you need to act before Apr 2012 as after then the only accreditation will be as agreed between the MoD and CAA towards EASA part-FCL licences. 22 Group has known this for well over a year now and there is no excuse for any tardiness in securing the new accreditation criteria!
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Goprdon, Beagle,
Thanks for the info. I noticed the lack of additional clauses on the PPL(H) section, but as it still says...
"has had the award of the flying badge confirmed in compliance with QR(RAF) J727*. "
...I wasn't sure.
Best get flying then!
Thanks for the info. I noticed the lack of additional clauses on the PPL(H) section, but as it still says...
"has had the award of the flying badge confirmed in compliance with QR(RAF) J727*. "
...I wasn't sure.
Best get flying then!
