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Awesome flying RN SAR!

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Awesome flying RN SAR!

Old 30th Nov 2010, 12:04
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Awesome flying RN SAR!

About an hour ago, Navy SAR Sea King, presumably from Prestwick on OPS, hedge hopping in a medium/heavy-ish snow fall along the extended centerline of Dundee airport. Just over the trees here at Inchture [5626937N/310502W]



GR.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 12:12
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You do realise, that if they are not, in fact, on a job, then you have just dumped them in the dwang?....
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 12:22
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Originally Posted by Tourist View Post
You do realise, that if they are not, in fact, on a job, then you have just dumped them in the dwang?....
If they are not, in fact, on a job, they deserve to be dropped in the dwang
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:55
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ZH875

If they are not, in fact, on a job, they deserve to be dropped in the dwang
You are a crab trapper I presume..........................
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 14:15
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...or they could have flown the ILS and then, when visual, continued visually to the helipad. As normal. Or transited visually from Ninewells into Dundee for fuel. As normal. No dwang in sight.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 15:54
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VFR

If I remember my air law correctly in a RW ac for VFR flight one needs only to be clear of cloud and in sight of the surface.....the forward visibility minima apply only to FW ac.

The 500ft rule (and its mil equivalent) does not apply when making an approach to land.....

Not a case for "dwang" in my book.

MB
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 17:30
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DB6 ...or they could have flown the ILS and then, when visual, continued visually to the helipad. As normal.


I'm afraid a Navy Sea King doing an ILS would be far from normal, given there aren't fitted for ILS (or VOR, or DME or ADF.....).

Neverthless I have no doubt the flying was of the highest calibre and undoubtably justified.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 17:51
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I'm afraid a Navy Sea King doing an ILS would be far from normal, given there aren't fitted for ILS (or VOR, or DME or ADF.....).
Crikey - presumably you do have some onboard navaid (GPS? TACAN?) to get down from VFR on-top? Or do you just avoid that situation?

WIWApongo we used to believe that the RN junglies could fly Seakings upside-down in a pint of Guinness - was our faith misplaced?
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 17:57
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Crikey - presumably you do have some onboard navaid (GPS? TACAN?) to get down from VFR on-top? Or do you just avoid that situation?
Just GPS and (super) Tans I'm afraid....and a piece of paper, a compass, a watch and a Dalton computer.... what else do you need?

If I remember my air law correctly in a RW ac for VFR flight one needs only to be clear of cloud and in sight of the surface.....the forward visibility minima apply only to FW ac.
Thats only below 3000' AMSL - which it was in this case... They also have a speed limit they must adhere to if the viz is poor - which it was in this case
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 17:57
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The aircraft have GPS, Radar, Compass......what more do you want

The aircraft has the same icing clearance as the RAF SAR cabs, however if they have to let down, an ATC controlled approach (SRA or PAR), or overwater self-letdown are the options if IMC
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 18:15
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If I remember my air law correctly in a RW ac for VFR flight one needs only to be clear of cloud and in sight of the surface.....the forward visibility minima apply only to FW ac.
RN will have their own weather limits; which I'm sure were being observed, but as far as civvy rules are concerned, you are a bit out of date there.

Hint: 1500m.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 18:22
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OK, OK...lets get this right... The RN don't have their own rules...the rules are as stated in the MILAIP which is an unclassified document and so here goes...

Inside Controlled airspace they must maintain 1500m Horizontal, 1000' Vertical OR COCISOS. (Only if they are doing less than 140 knots - merlin gods have different rules if they are going fast)

The 1500 m rule can be reduced if they manoeuvre at a speed so that they can have adequate opportunity to avoid other traffic or obstacles and avoid a collision.

Outside CAS the rules are the same provided you are below 3000' amsl. above that and the COCISOS rule isn't valid.

Below 2000'agl there are different rules again.

Im 99% certain thats it but may have missed something out...help anyone?


If it was an RN Sea King(Grey and red) then it was almost certainly on a job as there is no other reason for it to be in or around Dundee... a long way from its base....where was the Lossie cab?
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 19:17
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Yes, grey and red. I assumed it was from Gannet. No ILS? I stand corrected. Still no dwang though .
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 21:06
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Below 2000'agl there are different rules again.
That's the part I meant by 'RN' rules, that's different to the ANO for civilian aircraft.

Our (RAF) low-flying rules used to be something like 500m visibility and 200 foot cloudbase for RAF Germany.
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Old 1st Dec 2010, 17:42
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where was the Lossie cab?
Pure guesswork, but several likely options:

Lossie and/or Boulmer already committed to other tasking
Lossie and/or Boulmer off state
The Dundee task was a medevac to a specialist unit in Glasgow (ECMO perhaps), so Prestwick might be best suited as they could collect the medical team from Glasgow and take them to Dundee
Or the RN have heard rumours of Leuchars closing and were attempting a stake-out...
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 03:48
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where was the Lossie cab?
Well it doesn't need Einstein to work that one out. Crabair + nasty wx = Crabs tucked up in their (hotel) scratchers
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 18:43
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Oh Dear Pontius - no need for that...........!!
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 18:46
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Originally Posted by Pontius View Post
Well it doesn't need Einstein to work that one out. Crabair + nasty wx = Crabs tucked up in their (hotel) scratchers
Much as we like to extract the urine out of our Crab friends, that is an ill advised and dreadfully wrong assertion The yellow Sea Kings will turn out in weather that would have the likes of you and me unable to taxi, let alone fly
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Old 2nd Dec 2010, 23:03
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And God blessem the best in the world,whichever service,they risk themseleves for others when teachers and others close down,if the tea gets cold
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Old 3rd Dec 2010, 00:13
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A little message,

There are some VERY twattish people posting here, you know who you are.
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