canberra flying

[CathayBrat]

Jig peter, from my source, the switch was wire locked and just out of reach, and never worked as advertised. And he says that with stuff on, vmca was 185kts, and if you got the switch to work (rare), it still came back to 165kts, just as 27mm says. So how does the plane manage to fly with a civil reg? Am not knocking it, was a great plane, but a 40kt diff! V worrying for the nav's, if no one else!

[Jig Peter]

@ Cathay Brat

Your source's memory just confirms how innocent a young lad I woz - me Navs & I really, really believed the thing would work! How surprised (but not for long ...) we'd have been if I'd had to try to use it (wiv one leg at full stretch, like in the Meteor, too!).
And also how much I don't remember now that I've been a civilian for more than twice as long as I woz a driver airframe ...
Bestest 2 all

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Jig Peter

Wing Clear switch just forward of the throttles (and nicely within middle finger rapid-jabbing distance) did just what was wanted -everything fell off the wing . . . Made life a lot more comfortable, but of course the H&S Authorities might still get a touch of the trembles these cautious days.

Yes, like they wouldn't mind uncontrolled bits dropping off hither and thither.

[CathayBrat]

Jig Peter,
He says the only thing that worried him about flying the canberra was the fact that his 2 navs were married with children, where as he was not, and if he ballsed up, well, you get the idea. PN, having lunch with my gdftr on sun, must be from your part of the world, flew V's and glows in the dark! And dont all mil aircraft have

uncontrolled bits dropping off hither and thither

[Jig Peter]

Bits dropping off

Well ecksherly the bits wot drop orf are supposed only to do so when told to, innit ?
By the end of my Flying Camel tour, I'd also joined the married with child throng (just one then, but one more to come as we celebrated being civilians again), but I agree anyway about taking care for the two guys in the back (or one in the back and 'tother doing his stuff lying down up front) - they were both very good at tactfully letting me know I was headed down cock-up alley ... My (smallish) worry when Camel-driving was if, on a 4-ship tactical take-off, my No.2 had an engine failure on the side nearest me & me lads ...

1) The wing clear switch - funny how things one's sure one remembers turn out to be things that one doesn't really ... Could it be the long-delayed after-effect of too much Tiger (or Anchor) ?
2) If not actually civil registered, isn't there a let-out for "veteran" military aircraft as far as certain "dangerous" characterisitics are concerned?
3) I seem to remember a thread on Pprune about problems people had in getting starter cartridges for Canberras anyway - and as for Avpin for the later Marks, weeeeell ... I suspect that getting a Canberra airborne again would be full of pitfalls apart from the Regs bit ...

Sometilmes I too would like to be young & 30-ish again, but then I'd miss lots of good things that happened in the next half-century(ish) ... memories are good (even if distorted through the bottom of a beer glass, darkly ...)

[Pontius Navigator]

cathabrat,

And dont all mil aircraft have

uncontrolled bits dropping off hither and thither

Quite, but since in its civilian guise it would operate from civilian airfields then it potential for going clean wing is rather greater than an Airbus A380 or a 747.

[A2QFI]

The Bruntingthorpe Lightning team get AVPIN from somewhere for their activities! At what cost I do not know; who makes it and what else is it used for these days?

[JEM60]

Surprisingly, the two WB57Fs have both operated out of Mildenhall, Suffolk in the last couple of years, doing air sampling over East Anglia before going down to southern Europe, then staging back through Mildenhall.
On arrival from US they tend to stay for a few days, and fly missions during those days.
I guess more information would be obtained as to likely visits from Spotter Sites like Fighter Control, where these visits cause [quite rightly] considerable interest. I have video'ed both aircraft flying out of and into Mildenhall.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by CathayBrat

Thanks for that info, but have a question. Dad is convinced that it cant get CAA authority to fly, due to the VMCA problem, rotate at 125kts, vmca is 165kts!

Here's a photo of Air Atlantique's record breaking WK163 (G-BVWC) flying at Duxford a few years back in 2007.....proof that it indeed has a CAA Permit to Fly.
The only reason that it isn't currently flying is as I mentioned before due to an engine issue and the problems of sourcing a replacement.



The Canberra operated in Australia was also flown in civvie hands on the display circuit for a number of years before being sold to Temora.

[GeeRam]

The Bruntingthorpe Lightning team get AVPIN from somewhere for their activities! At what cost I do not know; who makes it and what else is it used for these days?

IIRC AVPIN is no longer manufactured by anyone anymore..........

[Samuel]

IIRC AVPIN is no longer manufactured by anyone anymore..........

That will be a relief...

[LowObservable]

You can see the Canberra pedigree although there are distinct visual differences.

No s**t.

[Wokkafans]

GeeRam/Samuel - you can always buy/make your own

Isopropyl nitrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A few good stories on its non-official uses here: About Avpin, used to start the Hunter on No 1 Squadron, The Rhodesian Air Force

[Belle and Sebastian]

AVPIN

Up until the demise of 39 Sqn a few years ago (when they had organic ballast!) the AVPIN we got was made by the chinese and sold to India. We got it from India because we weren't allowed to get it directly from China. Both of those countries use AVPIN in their diesel engined cars because the diesel is/was so poor.

The Navy use AVPIN as a booster in some of their missiles - not sure which one but I'm sure a matelot will tell us.

[LowObservable]

Avpin sounds less lethal than hydrazine...

[Jig Peter]

Clean wing

Here again I may be "misremembering", but I think the "clean wing" switch was only fitted to Canberras which could carry underwing stores, such as rocket pods, which it would cause to drop orf but the tip-tanks would remain in place.
Thus a restored Canberra for displays wouldn't have underwing stores, so things wouldn't drop orf at random ...

[GreenKnight121]

Originally Posted by NutherA2

Recently someone suggested to me that a B57 variant was quoted as reaching altitude and mach number values which seemed to me to be quite ridiculous. Has anyone come across any authentic information as to maxima achieved by any Canberra/B57, confirmed or rumoured?

[1.0] British Canberras

ENGLISH ELECTRIC CANBERRA B.2:
specification: english

wingspan: 63 feet 11 inches
wing area: 960 sq_feet
length: 65 feet 6 inches
height: 15 feet 7 inches
empty weight: 22,200 pounds
max loaded weight: 46,000 pounds
maximum speed: 570 MPH / 495 KT
service ceiling: 48,000 feet
range (no tanks): 2,656 MI / 2,310 NMI

ENGLISH ELECTRIC CANBERRA PR.9
[1.0] British Canberras
The PR variants had a forward fuselage stretch of 14", for a total length of 66 feet 8 inches.

The PR9 had a new, "high altitude" wing, with a "stretch" of 3 feet 10 inches, for a total span of 67 feet 9 inches.
It also had Avon RA.24 engines, which could provide 50.1 kN (5,110 kgp / 11,240 lbf) thrust, 73% more than the Avon 101 / RA.3 {28.9 kN (2,950 kgp / 6,500 lbf)} of the B.2 and 50% more than the Avon 109 / RA.7 {33.5 kN (3,410 kgp / 7,500 lbf)} of the B.6.

This gave an absolute maximum altitude of 60,000 feet.


B-57B:
Factsheets : Martin B-57B ?Night Intruder?

TECHNICAL NOTES:
Armament: Eight .50-cal. M3 machine guns or four 20mm M39 cannons and approximately 6,000 lbs. of internal and external stores (5-in. HVAR rockets, 2.75 in. FFAR rockets and various numbers and sizes of iron bombs in the bomb bay or mounted on under wing pylons)
Engines: Two Wright J65-W-5 turbojets of 7,200 lbs. static thrust each (Wright J65 was U.S.-built version of the Armstrong Siddeley "Sapphire")
Maximum speed: 600 mph at 45,000 ft.
Cruising speed: 530 mph
Combat radius: Approx. 950 miles
Range: Approx. 2,700 miles maximum ferry range
Service ceiling: 48,000 ft.
Span: 64 ft. 0 in. (without tip tanks)
Length: 65 ft. 6 in.
Height: 15 ft. 7 in.
Weight: 55,000 lbs. maximum takeoff weight
Crew: Two (pilot and engineer-navigator-bombardier)
Serial numbers: 52-1493 to 52-1594; 53-3859 to 53-3935; 53-3937 to 53-3949; 52-3941 to 3943; 53-3945 to 53-3947; 53-3949 to 53-3962

RB-57F/WB-57F:
Factsheets : General Dynamics WB-57F

TECHNICAL NOTES:
Armament: None (although the bomb bay could be converted to carry bombs if necessary)
Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-11 turbofans of 16,000 lbs. static thrust each, plus two (removable) Pratt & Whitney J60-P-9 turbojets of 3,300 lbs. static thrust each
Maximum speed: 550 mph / 475 knots
Range: 4,000 miles / 3475 nautical miles
Service ceiling: 82,000 ft.
Span: 122 ft. 5 in.
Length: 68 ft. 10 in.
Height: 19 ft. 0 in.
Crew: Two (pilot and navigator-observer)
Serial numbers (RB-57F): 63-13286 to 63-13302; 63-13500 to 63-13503

Note the near doubling of the wingspan in the RB-57F/WB-57F, as well as the very powerful engines. Those are the reasons for its extreme altitude capability.

[NutherA2]

Thanks for that, GK121 The service ceiling given for the B-57F is very impressive, but is still some 22,000’ less than the altitude suggested by my correspondent. He also “quoted” an unnamed American as reporting he’d flown a “Canberra” supersonic. I did say the suggestions were ridiculous.

[GreenKnight121]

I suppose someone might have been able to get a Canberra supersonic in a steep full-power dive... for a brief time... and either the aircraft would have been scrapped after landing or it became scrap during impact (and after the aircrew ejected)!


The altitude is simply not credible at all.


Or perhaps he meant B-58, not B-57.
Convair B-58 Hustler - USA
But even this beast only achieved a one-time altitude record of 85,360 ft (26,017 m)!

[LowObservable]

82,000 feet in a WB-57F? In an official AF document, no less.

Is that better than the U-2? I thought that the Compass Arrow drone at 81,000 feet was the subsonic, jet, unofficial record holder for sustained altitude.