Military Licence Exemptions beyond April 2012
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CAP 804
CAP 804 released today here:
CAP 804: Flight Crew Licensing: Mandatory Requirements, Policy and Guidance | Publications | About the CAA
Comes into force 01 Jul 12
CAP 804: Flight Crew Licensing: Mandatory Requirements, Policy and Guidance | Publications | About the CAA
Comes into force 01 Jul 12
22 Gp didn't get the report to the CAA in time.
CAP 804 will be amended as soon as the report has been reviewed and accepted - you shouldn't need to wait for a year.
CAP 804 will be amended as soon as the report has been reviewed and accepted - you shouldn't need to wait for a year.
22 Gp
For all those concerned, I'm sure they'll be delighted to know that such an important piece of staff work was given such high priority. It's not like the deadline came as a surprise.
Investors in people eh?!
BV
Investors in people eh?!
BV
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I don't think there will be any surprise. I was told that:
(1) All military QSP will have to complete all 14 EASA theoretical examinations irrespective of hours in logbooks.
(2) All military QSP will have to complete CPL/IR with a civvie training school who will have the flexibilty to reduce the training hours for the course at their discretion.
(1) All military QSP will have to complete all 14 EASA theoretical examinations irrespective of hours in logbooks.
(2) All military QSP will have to complete CPL/IR with a civvie training school who will have the flexibilty to reduce the training hours for the course at their discretion.
Prepared to be corrected but IR is now a separate endorsement on your licence, CPL/ATPL (H) is now an hours thing therefore if you have the required hours (>1000hrs PIC) you go straight to ATPL, IR you add or don't add on later. EASA FAQ p23 refers. Having read the A section (p19), it isn't quite as clear. >1500hrs PIC but there is no mention of IR, this is only mentioned in the CPL section.
SL
SL
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22 Gp's SO3 CAA Liaison presented the MOD groundschool case (based on all AP3456 Vols) to CAA for onward transmission to EASA. This failed to survive first contact with EASA! Fact is, MOD's groundschools are not EASA/JAR compliant. Once they are, exemptions IAW EASA's legislation L311 will apply.
Other European countries military flying depts have adopted JAR fully and thus, have no problem allowing their servicemen to achieve EASA licences. This issue was known 4 yrs ago and yet here we are, seeing loyal MOD aircrew bitching that their Lords and Masters have not protected their futures post EASA.
In short, sort your 'own house out' and don't rely on the MOD to fight your corner WRT licensing.
Other European countries military flying depts have adopted JAR fully and thus, have no problem allowing their servicemen to achieve EASA licences. This issue was known 4 yrs ago and yet here we are, seeing loyal MOD aircrew bitching that their Lords and Masters have not protected their futures post EASA.
In short, sort your 'own house out' and don't rely on the MOD to fight your corner WRT licensing.
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TheInquisitor: I believe the CPL/IR becomes full ATPL on completion of 1500hrs plus a multi-pilot rating. So, if you conducted your civvie training on a Dutchess or a King Air you would only ever get CPL because it is single pilot ops.
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Anyone know if this has changed the military exemption timeline?:
EASA pilot licence start date postponed | CAA Newsroom | About the CAA
EASA pilot licence start date postponed | CAA Newsroom | About the CAA
The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has announced that the introduction of new EASA pilots’ licences in the UK has been delayed until 17 September 2012. The CAA said that due to the complexity of the transition to the new licence format, and changes to the associated requirements and infrastructure, the original 1 July 2012 date was not achievable.
The deadlines, by which national commercial and private licences must be converted to EASA licences which are fixed in European legislation remain as April 2014 and April 2015, respectively. The CAA estimates that over 20,000 national licences will have to be converted during the period; this is in addition to the JAR licences that will have to be replaced with EASA licences on expiry or amendment.
Ray Elgy, Head of Licensing and Training Standards at the CAA, said: “We apologise for any inconvenience caused to pilots and organisations that were making plans based on the 1 July date, but we ask them to stick with us while we get this job done properly. It is disappointing that the timetable has moved in this way. However, it is vital that this transition is done correctly.
“The UK will still be one of the very first countries to introduce the new licensing regime and the extended period of transition allows flexibility for many operators and individuals to choose when to convert.”
The implementation of new rules for pilot licensing (including medical certification) across the EU is part of a process that has already seen EASA take responsibility for other areas of aviation policy, such as flight operations and airworthiness. Most UK pilots, private and commercial, will be affected by the switchover and will have to obtain new EASA licences to continue to fly aircraft that have EASA airworthiness certificates. However, some pilots, such as those who fly microlights, ex-military and kit built aircraft, will be able to continue to use their existing licences. This is because EASA does not regulate these categories of aircraft.
The new EASA licences will be valid for the owner’s lifetime. Pilots are advised to read the detailed information on the CAA website EASA Licensing and Training Transition | EASA Transition | Personal Licences and Training
The deadlines, by which national commercial and private licences must be converted to EASA licences which are fixed in European legislation remain as April 2014 and April 2015, respectively. The CAA estimates that over 20,000 national licences will have to be converted during the period; this is in addition to the JAR licences that will have to be replaced with EASA licences on expiry or amendment.
Ray Elgy, Head of Licensing and Training Standards at the CAA, said: “We apologise for any inconvenience caused to pilots and organisations that were making plans based on the 1 July date, but we ask them to stick with us while we get this job done properly. It is disappointing that the timetable has moved in this way. However, it is vital that this transition is done correctly.
“The UK will still be one of the very first countries to introduce the new licensing regime and the extended period of transition allows flexibility for many operators and individuals to choose when to convert.”
The implementation of new rules for pilot licensing (including medical certification) across the EU is part of a process that has already seen EASA take responsibility for other areas of aviation policy, such as flight operations and airworthiness. Most UK pilots, private and commercial, will be affected by the switchover and will have to obtain new EASA licences to continue to fly aircraft that have EASA airworthiness certificates. However, some pilots, such as those who fly microlights, ex-military and kit built aircraft, will be able to continue to use their existing licences. This is because EASA does not regulate these categories of aircraft.
The new EASA licences will be valid for the owner’s lifetime. Pilots are advised to read the detailed information on the CAA website EASA Licensing and Training Transition | EASA Transition | Personal Licences and Training
Actually, this should work in the military's favour.
Chatting to the relevant CAA mate last Saturday, I was glad to learn that they've put a huge amount of work into formulating the military accreditation conversion reports. The delay means that they now expect to be able to include it in CAP 804 in time for the 17 Sep implementation date.
A snippet to keep you interested is that FW accreditation for RW experience will be included, I'm told.
Incidentally, anyone seeking an IMC rating should note that the criteria stated in CAP 804 are the same as those in LASORS 2010 and still apply. I had a test case last week; thanks to the CAA for looking into it they have now confirmed that previous military accreditation still applies to those applying for the IMC rating.
Chatting to the relevant CAA mate last Saturday, I was glad to learn that they've put a huge amount of work into formulating the military accreditation conversion reports. The delay means that they now expect to be able to include it in CAP 804 in time for the 17 Sep implementation date.
A snippet to keep you interested is that FW accreditation for RW experience will be included, I'm told.
Incidentally, anyone seeking an IMC rating should note that the criteria stated in CAP 804 are the same as those in LASORS 2010 and still apply. I had a test case last week; thanks to the CAA for looking into it they have now confirmed that previous military accreditation still applies to those applying for the IMC rating.
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That's good news!
So what are we expecting the pathway to be beags?
Class 1 Medical -> 14 Exams -> Military IRT -> ATPL
or do you think it will be more complicated than that?
So what are we expecting the pathway to be beags?
Class 1 Medical -> 14 Exams -> Military IRT -> ATPL
or do you think it will be more complicated than that?
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Theboywide
owever, some pilots, such as those who fly microlights, ex-military and kit built aircraft, will be able to continue to use their existing licences. This is because EASA does not regulate these categories of aircraft.
Can I read into this that ppl licenses to operate kit aircraft will also be altered!? Or purely the certificates of airworthiness.
Have only recently looked into obtaining a civilian license and stumbled into the easa problem. One month too late I think!!
Another thank you to the raf.
owever, some pilots, such as those who fly microlights, ex-military and kit built aircraft, will be able to continue to use their existing licences. This is because EASA does not regulate these categories of aircraft.
Can I read into this that ppl licenses to operate kit aircraft will also be altered!? Or purely the certificates of airworthiness.
Have only recently looked into obtaining a civilian license and stumbled into the easa problem. One month too late I think!!
Another thank you to the raf.
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Fellow PPruners,
Returning to the original title of the thread, do we know if the military exemptions being put forward will seek to maintain the validity of a Military IR (within the last 5 years on any FW service ac) for the purposes of starting a MEP type rating (Airbus A32X, Boeing etc)?
My fear is that I will need to strap into a bloody awful Duchess again to renew my IR before joining an airline, as many other guys have done..
Returning to the original title of the thread, do we know if the military exemptions being put forward will seek to maintain the validity of a Military IR (within the last 5 years on any FW service ac) for the purposes of starting a MEP type rating (Airbus A32X, Boeing etc)?
My fear is that I will need to strap into a bloody awful Duchess again to renew my IR before joining an airline, as many other guys have done..
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Moggi,
I know this is a huge thread and there has been another on the topic of Mil IR/Civil validity so I'll try and be brief.
You cannot use a Green Rating on any fixed wing ac for the purposes of starting your first Civil MPA Type Rating, it has to be a ME Green IR. If you're not a current truckie you'll be strapping the Duchess on again.
Policy Dept CAA have stated the following;
We discussed the ME IR which is one of the pre-requisites in order to gain the first MPA Type rating. You highlighted the LASORS 2010 text of para F4.1 b) which includes the following: “A UK QSP who has held a Green IR within the preceding 5yrs is deemed to hold a ‘current and valid’ IR.” I confirmed that given the paragraph starts with ; “Hold a current and valid Multi Engine IR…….” it is reasonable to assume that all subsequent IR references would be in relation to Multi engine IRs, even though this may not be specifically stipulated. The requirement of holding a current and valid ME IR, or in the case of a QSP, a ME green IR (within the last 5yrs) has been, and is Policy.
I was arguing the case for a Hawk candidate about to join our airline who had been verbally informed at the CAA counter Gatwick that his Green Hawk IR was sufficient. That advice was deemed to be incorrect as you can read and he had to strap on a Duchess.
Good luck.
I know this is a huge thread and there has been another on the topic of Mil IR/Civil validity so I'll try and be brief.
You cannot use a Green Rating on any fixed wing ac for the purposes of starting your first Civil MPA Type Rating, it has to be a ME Green IR. If you're not a current truckie you'll be strapping the Duchess on again.
Policy Dept CAA have stated the following;
We discussed the ME IR which is one of the pre-requisites in order to gain the first MPA Type rating. You highlighted the LASORS 2010 text of para F4.1 b) which includes the following: “A UK QSP who has held a Green IR within the preceding 5yrs is deemed to hold a ‘current and valid’ IR.” I confirmed that given the paragraph starts with ; “Hold a current and valid Multi Engine IR…….” it is reasonable to assume that all subsequent IR references would be in relation to Multi engine IRs, even though this may not be specifically stipulated. The requirement of holding a current and valid ME IR, or in the case of a QSP, a ME green IR (within the last 5yrs) has been, and is Policy.
I was arguing the case for a Hawk candidate about to join our airline who had been verbally informed at the CAA counter Gatwick that his Green Hawk IR was sufficient. That advice was deemed to be incorrect as you can read and he had to strap on a Duchess.
Good luck.
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On a slight tangent anyone know what the deal is going to be for those QSP(H)s who, under the old system have CPL(H) and now wish to jump across to fixed wing?