Military Licence Exemptions beyond April 2012

[nice castle]

Phone them up. They told me this over the phone. I also received confirmation of this date in a letter from the CAA that they bunged in the post to me when I changed the address on my CPL. Sorry to be the bearer of such news to those already on a tight timeline. At least you know now, good luck!

[R-A-F-Off]

Well here's a direct cut and paste from an e-mail PLD sent me.

EU European legislation (EASA) is due to come into force on the 8th April 2012 which is going to change the pilot licensing rules and will affect the privileges of many existing licence holders. The current UK Military Accreditation Scheme and ICAO ECAC conversions will cease on the 8th April 2012. Any UK Military or ICAO ECAC Conversion applications received after the 7th April 2012 will not be issued under the current arrangements.

So on that basis it's 7 April, or indeed the 5th as already discussed.

[SimonK]

Apologies for the fairly bone question, I am very new to this I have recently completed the Bridging exams and should get my JAR licence (H) issued before the cutoff. Unfortunately I will not be able to get the IR done in time, nor my 'A' bridging. From the CAA doc linked above I assume that my shiny new licence will be largely worthless? The reasoning here is that apparently I will not be able to bridge across to an EASA 'A' from my JAR 'H' post Apr and will need to do all 14 exams from scratch. Joy!

I also heard from another source (apologies it is hearsay) that neither would I be able to open an IR up on my JAR 'H' licence post Apr. Hopefully I have been misinformed......anyone correct me or know more before I rapidly spin myself into a small whirl of CAA pain?

[MPSM]

I've just been informed that the new military exemptions have been received by the CAA on Monday. I've been told from a training provider who has spoken to them on the phone that its quite a good package with a lot of responsibility being given to civilian training providers. I believe that the all important IR exemption is now "Training as Reqd" on behalf of the Training School, so it may be less than the original 15Hr course for those already holding a Rating, assuming that your good enough that is, and no where near as much the forecast 50Hr course that I had been told to expect! I have also been told that the CAA are accepting applications for Licensing early to process the paperwork, so anyone who is sitting the final exams on the 19th March will be ready for issue upon receipt of their final exam results. Anyone from 22 Gp care to comment on whether or not I'm on the right lines?? Apparently the new exemptions will be in place on April 8th although they may not be published, they will be active. So there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

[SunderlandMatt]

Bloody good news if it's true MPSM.

I'll be watching the CAA's (and PPrune) web site like a hawk. 50 hours would have been crazy!

SM.

[gashman]

I received this email today from the CAA reference their change of goalposts.


I confirm due to the high volume of applications expected due to the
military accreditation scheme ceasing on 8th April. We are recommending
that pilots submit their applications to us as soon as possible. The
21st of March allows us our sufficient time to process applications
before 7th April deadline.

It is worth you submitting paperwork to us prior to the completion of
your IR. If you expect to complete your IR and the test is to be
conducted by 7th April you can submit the IR application, annotated
pending IR Test. Please note however we are unable to issue a licence as
a same day service.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any queries.

EU European legislation (EASA) is due to come into force on the 8th
April 2012 which is going to change the pilot licensing rules and will
affect the privileges of many existing licence holders. **The current UK
Military Accreditation Scheme and ICAO ECAC conversions will cease on
the 8th April 2012. **Any UK Military or ICAO ECAC Conversion
applications received after the 7th April 2012 will not be issued under
the current arrangements.

Pilots should be aware that the UK CAA will not be issuing EASA licences
until 1st July 2012. ***

For the latest information on EASA please refer to the link below:

EASA Updates and FAQ's


Regards

Caroline Ellett
Technical Support Officer
Licensing & Training Standards
CAA
Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South
West Sussex
RH6 0YR
email [email protected]
telephone [phone]
fax [phone]

[nice castle]

Thanks chap, I knew I wasn't going mad!

[[email protected]]

So how does this maze of new regulation affect someone who already holds a CAA ATPL(H)?

Mine has lapsed and I need to renew it (class 1 medical complete) - is it worth paying for a renewal or should I go for an issue of a JAR FCL CPL (without IR) - effectively a frozen ATPL(H) and wait for an opportunity to do an IR when I need one (since my procedural IRT doesn't count in civvy street).

I know the answer is probably deep in LASORS but that document makes brain surgery seem simple to understand by comparison.

[nice castle]

The risk you run is that when you try and 'unfreeze' your new licence, they may question the validity of it, given (I assume) it was based on the military bridging package, that will, by then, no exist.

Equally, they may not notice or care...

I have a CPL(H) from mil bridging, the MCCC, but need an IR and won't get one sorted before the cut off. I asked if I really needed to do the IR by the cut off and they said yes...

If you want to be sure of the situation, if I were you, I'd get the ATPL(H) sorted as soon as you can, and then that will carry across to the new system when that stands up in April.

[SunderlandMatt]

Okay how about this situation,

Post 7 April I will complete my new EASA syllabus ATPL(A) Theoretical Knowledge but probably won't complete the IR(A). What further exams will I then need to get an ATPL(H)? PoF(H) and then anything else? It used to be that you just did PoF(H) under the Interim Arrangement but that ceases on 31 March. So what follows?

I've got the 1500 hours etc and will get a twin rating and do an IR(H) but I just can't get the answer out of LASORS without coming up with the ridiculous concept of having to do a further 8 exams?

Any advice would be brilliant as I don't fancy the idea of 22 exams just for the sake of paying the CAA £68 a pop. I've spoken with the CAA and I've had nothing back in writing for weeks.

Regards,

SM.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

You wont get an answer because until the case that links RAF/RN/AAC flying training and experience with that of the civvy world is submitted to and approved by EASA nobody will know. It just a case of sit back and wait till April (or possibly beyond).
What we do know is that anything done under the current system that does not lead to the issue of a licence by April (i.e. you've done the bridging package but don't have the hours or will not complete the paper work in time) will NOT be recognised by EASA come April.
Here's hoping that the RAF RW boys get a better deal out of it than the current systems which seems to cater only for the lowest common denominator (no disrespect intended to our RN and AAC comrades who dont have the aircraft fit for an unrestricted IR).

[MPSM]

I have been told that the CAA are currently wading through a 3000 Pg document which has the new exemptions in it. It should be approved by EASA with no problems as it has been written in conjunction with the CAA. They are now re-encoding it into "Civvie" speak. However they are still insisting on the 21st deadline but are being helpful (Surprisingly!) by accepting applications in advance, for both Licence and IR issue under the old scheme. Then its a case of them being ready to give you your licence as soon as your final exam results or IRT is complete

[TheInquisitor]

Any more for any more? If the doc's been written, surely somebody could give those of us currently falling between the gaps a clue?

[VinRouge]

The great news is its up to EASA to decide how much (or how little) we need to do to qualify for EASA exemptions. I personally reckon it will be less than currently required, as the Europeans are becoming increasingly aware of resilience issues post the air france crash.

[SunderlandMatt]

Hope you're right VinRouge. Fewer and fewer pilots now achieve 2000 hours unless they're QFI/QHI's.

I'd certainly be happier with a 1500 hour QSP flying me to Eleven-erife on my hols rather than a 300 hour civvie with very little upset-recovery training or even basic hands on time.

It'll be an interesting, if not painful, few weeks running up to Easter.

SM.

[RODF3]

13 Mar 12

22(TRG) GP – BRIEFING NOTE FROM DFT

THE FUTURE OF FLIGHT CREW LICENSING AND MILITARY ACCREDITATION – UPDATE ON SUCCESSOR SCHEME

BACKGROUND

· For the past 11 months, 22(Trg) Gp has been working on a successor to the Qualified Service Pilot (QSP) scheme, which gives credit to military pilots for training, experience and theoretical knowledge (TK) gained in military service. This scheme applies to experienced military pilots who embark on training to acquire civilian pilot licences such as the PPL, CPL and ATPL, the latter two being prerequisite for employment as civilian pilots.

· Pan-European legislation under the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) supersedes national regulation on 8 Apr 12, and the current QSP scheme will cease to exist.

· Until 8 Apr 12, the extant QSP regulations, as published by the CAA in LASORS 2010, will apply; anyone wishing to take advantage of the existing QSP scheme is advised to acquaint themselves with this publication, which is available online at www.caa.co.uk/ under Safety Regulation / Personnel Licensing.

UPDATE

· The CAA is now in receipt of the 22(Trg) Gp credit report, which compares military pilot training and experience with the forthcoming EASA Flight Crew Licensing requirements for aeroplane and helicopter PPL, CPL, IR and ATPL licences; the credit report for Flight Instructor licences will follow shortly.

· The report submitted by 22(Trg) Gp is currently being subjected to independent scrutiny and staffing by the Flight Crew Licensing Department of the CAA. Early indications suggest that the successor to the QSP scheme is unlikely to be published with the initial issue of the Flight Crew Licensing Regulation, CAP 804. The preferred strategy is likely to result in the successor to the QSP scheme being published as an amendment to the CAP in due course. The timeline for the publication of the successor scheme amendment has not been precisely determined; it is possible that there may be a transition period of 2 – 3 months between the publication of CAP 804 and the successor scheme to allow the full staffing process to be completed. In that event, for the period of transition, military accreditation under current arrangements is likely to be suspended pending publication of the new scheme.


· It is appreciated that some individuals, particularly those who are in receipt of offers of employment, may be adversely affected by any such transition period; the CAA and 22(Trg) Gp will endeavour to assist these individuals wherever possible.

· Although 22(Trg) Gp has met its obligation to provide the CAA with a comprehensive credit report, representing the interests of all military aircrew, considerable liaison activity continues to ensure the successful implementation of the new scheme. Essential questions or queries only, therefore, should be addressed to:

[Mach the Knife]

Having done both, I think the ATPL Theory and A2 groundschool are pretty close!

[Mach the Knife]

Come to think of it the IRE training and procedural Master Green IRET in the back seat of a Tornado was far harder than any single pilot IRT in a Duchess. In fact nothing about the ATPL is difficult, it's just Very expensive!

[SunderlandMatt]

Thanks for the update RODF3. It's a shame the document won't be published at the same the as the QSP allowances cease. Then again, better later than never. I can't imagine many of the really old and bold will fancy doing 14 exams!

I can imagine that a Staff Officer somewhere will have tried to make the point that QSP allowances are bad for retention and he'd be right. However, taking away the recognition of a QSP simply to trap people in the Forces, isn't how we should go about things. Retention should be about incentives not barriers to escape. I sincerely hope the document which 22Gp have submitted hasn't been swayed by that idea. (Thread drift mini rant. Apologies)

Any news on what the cross over between ATPL(H) and (A) will be? Or vice versa. Perhaps the 8 type specific exams?

[nice castle]

It's funny that the original 'escape tunnels' currently being referred to, were designed precisely with retention in mind! If it's going to be as difficult to leave whether you're 30, or 38, if you decide you'd rather split, which age would you rather start your new airline career? I'd go for 30, myself.

If, by, shall we say, 38, the process of achieving licences was much easier, guys might be swayed into staying if not dead set on leaving at 30.

Actually, make that 40, new pension and all that.