Military Licence Exemptions beyond April 2012
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A Yorkshire based Learning Centre today told me they had heard of this new restriction and it was deemed to be descriminatory to FJ pilots. I was led to believe there was a rapid re-think and there is no stopper on FJ types using ELCs for ATPLs.
My only questions before I phone "Alex" are:
1. With 80 hours short of 2000 total, 1500 1st pilot/Captain should I wait 4 months and do the bridging package or press for the full whack? (Does it really matter if the pilot shortage chasm is about to open up)
2. Could I feasibly complete the bridging package route in time (ATPL in my hand?) assuming we will lose the exemption in 2012
I have 5 years left. There is no future in FJs and I'm going to look after myself before they pull the ELC cash and every other reason for staying (loyal)
My only questions before I phone "Alex" are:
1. With 80 hours short of 2000 total, 1500 1st pilot/Captain should I wait 4 months and do the bridging package or press for the full whack? (Does it really matter if the pilot shortage chasm is about to open up)
2. Could I feasibly complete the bridging package route in time (ATPL in my hand?) assuming we will lose the exemption in 2012
I have 5 years left. There is no future in FJs and I'm going to look after myself before they pull the ELC cash and every other reason for staying (loyal)
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Add up your sim hours, you can use up to 100 sim hours to make up the 2000. The 1500 PIC has to be just that though. 2 years is plenty of time to get the bridging package done. In reality it is 8 to 10 months hard work. My advice would be if you have the chance then crack it before the system changes. Better the devil you know and all that.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
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Raytofclimb
fully echo s61funs comments. If in your shoes I'd probably bite the bullet and crack on ASAP ie get your ELC application in by COP today for this years ELC dip. As soon as the first set are done you can then use 2011s dip for the second. Get your IR and you're laughing.
Would be a tad circumspect about attempting to get the hours - you never know something may occur which prevents you reaching the goal whereupon you're back to square one anyhow.
The knowledge you gain from the exams is fairly useful, and explicitly pointed out to me how much I didn't know but should.
Good luck and the ATPL online question database is worth its weight in gold.
Regards
fully echo s61funs comments. If in your shoes I'd probably bite the bullet and crack on ASAP ie get your ELC application in by COP today for this years ELC dip. As soon as the first set are done you can then use 2011s dip for the second. Get your IR and you're laughing.
Would be a tad circumspect about attempting to get the hours - you never know something may occur which prevents you reaching the goal whereupon you're back to square one anyhow.
The knowledge you gain from the exams is fairly useful, and explicitly pointed out to me how much I didn't know but should.
Good luck and the ATPL online question database is worth its weight in gold.
Regards
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'Add up your sim hours, you can use up to 100 sim hours to make up the 2000'
from LASORS:
from LASORS:
A minimum of 2000 hours flying experience*.................
* as recorded in Service logbook i.e. excluding any taxitime allowances.
The key word is 'flying'.
Sim time can be used for 1500hr min requirement for ATPL(A)
Last edited by tradewind; 9th Dec 2010 at 10:08.
C.Griffin, you mentioned an online ATPL database worth its weight in gold, which website do you recommend?
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If you want to stand a good chance of passing your exams first time (potentially necessary if you're on a tight budget) and, subsequently, getting a job then the online database is worth its weight in gold. Whilst I agree that just learning the database is a bad footing, it is a great addition to aid in boosting your chances of success.
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Trim stab
I don't think any aviation professional would advocate the "rote learning of multiple choice answers". The website enables a student to track their progress and identify weak areas of knowledge therefore increasing the chances of exam success.
To that end it truly is worth it's weight in gold and allows targeted allocation of time to weaker areas of knowledge.
Private study in conjunction with the crammers in conjunction with access to the online database provides an unbeatable way to gain the knowledge and technique to answer any question posed.
In thrust I trust
Bristol GS - usually advertised on these pages as the header. Best of British in your endeavours. Think everyone should be doing it before the EASA changeover.
I don't think any aviation professional would advocate the "rote learning of multiple choice answers". The website enables a student to track their progress and identify weak areas of knowledge therefore increasing the chances of exam success.
To that end it truly is worth it's weight in gold and allows targeted allocation of time to weaker areas of knowledge.
Private study in conjunction with the crammers in conjunction with access to the online database provides an unbeatable way to gain the knowledge and technique to answer any question posed.
In thrust I trust
Bristol GS - usually advertised on these pages as the header. Best of British in your endeavours. Think everyone should be doing it before the EASA changeover.
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ELC Update
Everyone who has been speculating/Bulls#!tting about ELC use for ATPL -
Fresh from the resettlement clerk at a base near you -
Quote - "ELC cannot be used for ATPL regardless of FJ/RW/ME unless used during resettlement". Additionally, ELC cannot be combined with SLC either, however, IRTC can be used towards your personal contribution.
PCMM
Fresh from the resettlement clerk at a base near you -
Quote - "ELC cannot be used for ATPL regardless of FJ/RW/ME unless used during resettlement". Additionally, ELC cannot be combined with SLC either, however, IRTC can be used towards your personal contribution.
PCMM
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PCMM
Your resettlement clerk is out of date; get him/her to check the newly re-issued AP3379 Leaflet 2511 (dated 15 Nov 2010). It states,
Your resettlement clerk is out of date; get him/her to check the newly re-issued AP3379 Leaflet 2511 (dated 15 Nov 2010). It states,
To that end, there is a clear benefit to the Service and, as such, military Pilots and WSOs may use ELCs to fund the ATPL.
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Can anyone tell me at which point I have to meet the hours requirement for the bridging course? i.e can I start learning and even do exams provided I meet the requirements before presenting my licence application to the CAA?
I'm trying to use an ELC for this financial year for the initial outlay but may not make the hours before the end of March.
Ray
I'm trying to use an ELC for this financial year for the initial outlay but may not make the hours before the end of March.
Ray
Seeing as the SDSR has focussed everyone's attention re - future employment and seeing as there is a new directive from EASA, is this thread worth posting as a sticky, Mr Moderator?
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Sorry if this quote has been posted before, but I just noticed the official line from the newly issued LASORS 2010:
The draft European legislation (as published in April 2010) makes provision for EASA licences to be granted on the basis of military training and experience, provided that the requirements are approved by the European Aviation Safety Agency. As of Summer 2010 the final legislation is still awaited. It is envisaged that to obtain the approval of the requirements for military pilots it will be necessary to present to EASA a documented comparison between the current UK military flying training system and EASA-FCL, including where additional training is required for a military pilot to achieve the EASA-FCL standard. There can be no guarantee that the resulting agreed requirements will be the same as those currently applied by the CAA (as set out in LASORS) or that the current periods allowed for the validity of theoretical knowledge and/or skills tests will remain. Therefore, military pilots should not rely upon the existing QSP arrangements being available after March 2012.
In other words, it's exactly as Alex said at the start of this thread.
Potential effect of European legislation on military pilots applying for civil licences.
The draft European legislation (as published in April 2010) makes provision for EASA licences to be granted on the basis of military training and experience, provided that the requirements are approved by the European Aviation Safety Agency. As of Summer 2010 the final legislation is still awaited. It is envisaged that to obtain the approval of the requirements for military pilots it will be necessary to present to EASA a documented comparison between the current UK military flying training system and EASA-FCL, including where additional training is required for a military pilot to achieve the EASA-FCL standard. There can be no guarantee that the resulting agreed requirements will be the same as those currently applied by the CAA (as set out in LASORS) or that the current periods allowed for the validity of theoretical knowledge and/or skills tests will remain. Therefore, military pilots should not rely upon the existing QSP arrangements being available after March 2012.
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Does anyone know what will happen if Groundschool and theory exams are complete but the candidate misses the April 2010 deadline to complete the skills test and or IR?
THis is a bit of a grey area. Will they honour the theory and grant an ATPL or tell you to start all over again?
Peeps need to NB this point IMHO.
THis is a bit of a grey area. Will they honour the theory and grant an ATPL or tell you to start all over again?
Peeps need to NB this point IMHO.
''I left the RAF in '92 (yes, I know - KOS) with an ATPL gained with exemptions and was somewhat dismayed to read the back pages of Flight which contained several adverts from major carriers (including Cathay) stating that all applicants must hold an ATPL - gained without exemptions.''
That's because many regulating authorities around the world need a full ATPL issued from the pilot's original licencing authority to validate it for the issue of their own licence. In the case of Cathay Pacific's regulating authority, the Hong Kong CAD, a pass mark for every exam is required to issue a credit for their own. Exemptions mean you have no original pass mark and will have to take their equivalnet exam. Cathay Pacific deal with this by saying "No exemptions'' as it is too difficult for them to get prospective pilots over the hurdles, so they take the easier route.
Getting exemptions is the short term easy route, but it does restrict you future employment. Something to consider as European terms and conditions seem to be going down the toilet and overseas jobs become more attractive.
That's because many regulating authorities around the world need a full ATPL issued from the pilot's original licencing authority to validate it for the issue of their own licence. In the case of Cathay Pacific's regulating authority, the Hong Kong CAD, a pass mark for every exam is required to issue a credit for their own. Exemptions mean you have no original pass mark and will have to take their equivalnet exam. Cathay Pacific deal with this by saying "No exemptions'' as it is too difficult for them to get prospective pilots over the hurdles, so they take the easier route.
Getting exemptions is the short term easy route, but it does restrict you future employment. Something to consider as European terms and conditions seem to be going down the toilet and overseas jobs become more attractive.