Bye Bye CEA.
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I wonder how long its going to take to have Haddon-Cave part Deux due to all the senior experience walking out over the next 18 months to fill the retirement issue the airlines are facing?
Do the MAA know how many experienced individuals (and some less experienced individuals with 5 in million flying training behind them) are currently sitting groundschool exams with Bristol Aviation?
I know you are all going to say "they want people to leave" but if all the experience goes, who is going to pick up the tab once inexperience and skill fade caused by spending our lives in the desert is the cause of expensive aircraft crashes?
The CEA is not just a MOD allowance.......... The FCO and other Govt Depts also make good use of the 'perk'; therefore, it would be interesting to see if HMT scrap it for their brothers in arms????
Another issue would be the pool of volunteers that would come forward for the few overseas postings still available. My understanding is that they (Manning) struggle now to get the right level of experience for the posts, so with the removal of CEA that pool of manpower would reduce still further.
Another issue would be the pool of volunteers that would come forward for the few overseas postings still available. My understanding is that they (Manning) struggle now to get the right level of experience for the posts, so with the removal of CEA that pool of manpower would reduce still further.
Yes, initially, and then the rules and regs allow for all forms of attendance, with a number of caveats. The rules are constantly revised and are very prescriptive, which reduces the chances of the allowance being abused.
Speak with your Admin Staff or, better still, the CS at Netheravon who administer the whole system for the MOD.
Speak with your Admin Staff or, better still, the CS at Netheravon who administer the whole system for the MOD.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
CBTL, do the Services need volunteers for overseas posting?
Do they have to get your agreement to accept a posting from one end of the kingdom to the other?
Thought not.
I do know of some people who have refused postings because their wife's job was too good to move or they couldn't afford to move. I suspect that the days when the posters allowed people to refuse postings is a thing of the past.
Do they have to get your agreement to accept a posting from one end of the kingdom to the other?
Thought not.
I do know of some people who have refused postings because their wife's job was too good to move or they couldn't afford to move. I suspect that the days when the posters allowed people to refuse postings is a thing of the past.
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I think the Torygraph have been misinformed. I've heard from a tip top source that CEA is likely to survive because the damage caused by withdrawing it would be huge. Some other allowances are likely to take a big hit though.
Not one of these statements is new, or even a worry, and especially the one about a percieved "Lack of Experience" if the "Good guys" leave - what complete tosh!
When the "Good guys" leave those who are waiting in the background will step up - and often not those you would expect.
It is obvious none of you paid any attention to the restructuring of the maintenance trades in the 90s (that continues today) where many of those Good Guys took redundancy or PVR'd - and none of you noticed.
Experience is easily found (but not normally until after you need it) and the new good guys have already learned much of it from the old good guys.
When the "Good guys" leave those who are waiting in the background will step up - and often not those you would expect.
It is obvious none of you paid any attention to the restructuring of the maintenance trades in the 90s (that continues today) where many of those Good Guys took redundancy or PVR'd - and none of you noticed.
Experience is easily found (but not normally until after you need it) and the new good guys have already learned much of it from the old good guys.
Rigga
Sorry, mate, but I noticed and coupled to leaning and multi-skilling it has been a miracle that aircraft have got airborne in the meagre numbers that they have in the past 10 years.
The B Word
Sorry, mate, but I noticed and coupled to leaning and multi-skilling it has been a miracle that aircraft have got airborne in the meagre numbers that they have in the past 10 years.
The B Word
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CEA will not go due to the massive negative effect that it will have on Forces morale - not to mention screwing up the education of children already in the system.
I'd be more worried about Flying Pay in ground tours and IE if I were you.....
I'd be more worried about Flying Pay in ground tours and IE if I were you.....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Rigga, you are right, to a point. It is skills that are easily replaced having been taught by the experienced who now depart.
Skills are what you need at the moment but experience is what you need when your skills are inadequate, even experience to recognise your skills are inadequate.
They say that those who ignore history are condemned to make the mistakes of their forebears. Knowledge of this history is what those with experience can take with them.
Away from engineering, how many people realise just how long the PAYD issue has been going? PAYD was introduced after trials about 36 years ago! That is as far back as most long serving Servicemen will have served.
Skills are what you need at the moment but experience is what you need when your skills are inadequate, even experience to recognise your skills are inadequate.
They say that those who ignore history are condemned to make the mistakes of their forebears. Knowledge of this history is what those with experience can take with them.
Away from engineering, how many people realise just how long the PAYD issue has been going? PAYD was introduced after trials about 36 years ago! That is as far back as most long serving Servicemen will have served.
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CEA will be reviewed with all other allowances and will be as likley for the chop as anything else. With the proposed future RAF manning model with it's "proffessional stream" staying in posts for long periods compared to the 2 years, the idea is to create stability , reduce the need for SFA and the need for CEA. The proffessional streaming will create a core of experience and continuity allowing those likely to scream up to 2* level to move around and get to the dizzy heights whilst those not so bright will have a slower promotion path with greater stability.
My words condensing information recieved from COS Pers. (Not holy writ but pretty close)
My words condensing information recieved from COS Pers. (Not holy writ but pretty close)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
With the proposed future RAF manning model with it's "proffessional stream" staying in posts for long periods. . . The proffessional streaming will create a core of experience and continuity allowing those likely to scream up to 2* level to move around and get to the dizzy heights whilst those not so bright will have a slower promotion path with greater stability.
This reinforces the point. This is EXACTLY the model that the RAF had until the 70s. A professional cadre taught at apprentice schools and at Cranwell or Henlow and the bulk came from well trained people from the schools. And quite a number of apprentices made sqn ldr.
The majority of aircrew were signed on to the age or 41, later 38, with some assimilated to 55 and a lucky few being awarded a General List commission to join the Cranwell stream with some making at least gp capt and possibly higher.
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CEA Ignorance
For those not in the know regarding CEA.
The service most hit by a change to the levels (which have been reducing in real terms for the last 5 years at least) or rules regarding CEA would in fact be the Army with its insistance on moving people around the country at regular intervals. As far as stability goes there are still many areas of the RAF which regularly move around the country, not everyone has a totally stable future. Hence the need for stability for a child's education.
The Joint Service Regulations now clearly state that the allowance is reviewed upon re application for the service persons Mobility Eligibility Certificate (every 3 years, on posting or on child's change of school) if at that point the service person has not moved locaton after 3 successive postings then the application for the Mobility Certificate is firstly reviewed by the Stn cdr and then by the CEAS.
As far as boarding is concerned, the first child has to board for at least 1 year after which, if you are lucky enough to be posted nearby, you can opt for day school allowance on the understanding that they will need to board if you move again.
At the end of the day it is not CEA that has broken the bank it is the total mishandling of the procurement budget, an insistance on delaying projects (with the inevitable reduction in numbers of items) to "save" money and an insistance on sticking our noses into too many areas that got us to where we are.
The service most hit by a change to the levels (which have been reducing in real terms for the last 5 years at least) or rules regarding CEA would in fact be the Army with its insistance on moving people around the country at regular intervals. As far as stability goes there are still many areas of the RAF which regularly move around the country, not everyone has a totally stable future. Hence the need for stability for a child's education.
The Joint Service Regulations now clearly state that the allowance is reviewed upon re application for the service persons Mobility Eligibility Certificate (every 3 years, on posting or on child's change of school) if at that point the service person has not moved locaton after 3 successive postings then the application for the Mobility Certificate is firstly reviewed by the Stn cdr and then by the CEAS.
As far as boarding is concerned, the first child has to board for at least 1 year after which, if you are lucky enough to be posted nearby, you can opt for day school allowance on the understanding that they will need to board if you move again.
At the end of the day it is not CEA that has broken the bank it is the total mishandling of the procurement budget, an insistance on delaying projects (with the inevitable reduction in numbers of items) to "save" money and an insistance on sticking our noses into too many areas that got us to where we are.
Although CEA is claimed at any one time by a relatively small percentage of personnel, there are many others who either intend to claim CEA in the future (and thus stay in), or who have claimed CEA in the past and are now past the 'golden' 35-45 age range where a second career is particularly attractive (and so stay in).
Secondly, although there is a current mood of 'make it cr@p enough for people and they'll leave, so saving us redundancy', this could backfire in spades. Although people may be unhappy, this doesn't mean they will leave - financial circumstances are unique to each family. You could just end up with a bunch of very hacked off middle ranking personnel.
Finally, CEA is there for a reason. It's not designed as a perk or a sbtle way to increase salary (contrary to the MPs' arrangements!). While personnel sign up to follow the flag in support of Her Majesty's business, they generally don't want their childrens' education to pay the price for such loyalty!
Secondly, although there is a current mood of 'make it cr@p enough for people and they'll leave, so saving us redundancy', this could backfire in spades. Although people may be unhappy, this doesn't mean they will leave - financial circumstances are unique to each family. You could just end up with a bunch of very hacked off middle ranking personnel.
Finally, CEA is there for a reason. It's not designed as a perk or a sbtle way to increase salary (contrary to the MPs' arrangements!). While personnel sign up to follow the flag in support of Her Majesty's business, they generally don't want their childrens' education to pay the price for such loyalty!
At GBP280 million (ish) per year for 5500 kids this is a big ticket item that has to be reviewed. One of the few spin offs of JPA has been the ability to compare the list of those claiming CEA with the list of marital Status - hence quite a few very large invoices dropping on door mats.... Those who used to treat it as a right as opposed to something you had to qualify for have had a big shock.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
nav attacking, all true.
By and large aircrew, once on a type and esconced in a squadron, can expect to remain for a number of years compared with ground branch officers that move frequently. Airmen do move less frequently and I know steward who was promoted from sgt to WO but never left the Officers' Mess - he may even have been there as a JNCO.
Where the theory of aircrew stability falls down is towards the end of a particular types service live - the F3 move to Leuchars for instance or the closure of a base such as St Mawgan or Lyneham.
By and large aircrew, once on a type and esconced in a squadron, can expect to remain for a number of years compared with ground branch officers that move frequently. Airmen do move less frequently and I know steward who was promoted from sgt to WO but never left the Officers' Mess - he may even have been there as a JNCO.
Where the theory of aircrew stability falls down is towards the end of a particular types service live - the F3 move to Leuchars for instance or the closure of a base such as St Mawgan or Lyneham.
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The simple fact is that most recipients of CEA are getting money that is partly a compensation for the exigencies of their service life, and partly a contribution towards an aspirational lifestyle choice for themselves and their children.
The former is entirely justified. The latter is not - both on grounds of affordability, and 'fairness'. What makes this issue complicated is that the ratio of the former (reasonable) element to the latter (unjustifiable) element will differ in each individual case, based on personal circumstances, opportunities and ambition rather than factors that are within the control of the State.
The independent schools council states that the average cost for day pupils in a fee paying school is £2,963 per term. However, this increases to £4,038 if children are day pupils at a boarding school. Average fees for boarding at those schools is £6,678 a term.
It seems to me that a fair system of compensation would be for the MOD to contribute £1,075 per child per term for parents who opt to send their children to a school in which the child is capable of boarding (to compensate for the higher costs of attending such a school), and up to an additional £2,640 (abated by the cost of feeding a child at home) for each term that the child actually boards, but only when the service person is assigned to specified out of area or designated hardship postings, and therefore cannot provide the pastoral care for their child for genuine service reasons, and not because of lifestyle choices.
This would result in a considerably lower spend on CEA than at present - however it would be demonstrably fairer in the eyes of all those, civilian and military alike, whose perception is that the unjustifiable 'perk' element of CEA far exceeds the genuine 'need' element in too many cases.
The squeals from those in receipt of this perk who recoil at at the prospect of losing it - at a time when others within the MOD are facing the very real prospect of redundancy - vividly conjures the unpalatable image of the unmeritorious with their 'snouts in the trough' just like the bankers and MPs. Defence cannot afford such a negative public perception, and so CEA must be reviewed and reduced.
The former is entirely justified. The latter is not - both on grounds of affordability, and 'fairness'. What makes this issue complicated is that the ratio of the former (reasonable) element to the latter (unjustifiable) element will differ in each individual case, based on personal circumstances, opportunities and ambition rather than factors that are within the control of the State.
The independent schools council states that the average cost for day pupils in a fee paying school is £2,963 per term. However, this increases to £4,038 if children are day pupils at a boarding school. Average fees for boarding at those schools is £6,678 a term.
It seems to me that a fair system of compensation would be for the MOD to contribute £1,075 per child per term for parents who opt to send their children to a school in which the child is capable of boarding (to compensate for the higher costs of attending such a school), and up to an additional £2,640 (abated by the cost of feeding a child at home) for each term that the child actually boards, but only when the service person is assigned to specified out of area or designated hardship postings, and therefore cannot provide the pastoral care for their child for genuine service reasons, and not because of lifestyle choices.
This would result in a considerably lower spend on CEA than at present - however it would be demonstrably fairer in the eyes of all those, civilian and military alike, whose perception is that the unjustifiable 'perk' element of CEA far exceeds the genuine 'need' element in too many cases.
The squeals from those in receipt of this perk who recoil at at the prospect of losing it - at a time when others within the MOD are facing the very real prospect of redundancy - vividly conjures the unpalatable image of the unmeritorious with their 'snouts in the trough' just like the bankers and MPs. Defence cannot afford such a negative public perception, and so CEA must be reviewed and reduced.
The simple fact is that most recipients of CEA are getting money that is partly a compensation for the exigencies of their service life