Convictions and RAF application
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Convictions and RAF application
When I was 21 I made a very stupid mistake of getting into the car after a few pints.
I was charged with "failure to provide a sample" (DR30) , I have served the driving ban and fine.
Can I still apply for Officer in the RAF?
I was charged with "failure to provide a sample" (DR30) , I have served the driving ban and fine.
Can I still apply for Officer in the RAF?
Last edited by mattyh1986; 2nd Oct 2010 at 22:55.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
First rule of the Military - Better to check than assume.
Eligibility checks - RAF Careers
Criminal convictions
If you have ever been convicted of an offence you may still be able to apply to join the RAF. All applicants for service in the RAF must declare any previous unspent convictions.
For some roles, you will need to declare both 'spent' and 'unspent' convictions. These include Royal Air Force Police, dental, legal, medical and nursing.
If you have a conviction and you are not sure whether it is spent or unspent, it is strongly recommended that you contact your Citizens Advice Bureau for help or seek independent legal advice. Please be aware that AFCO staff are not qualified to answer queries of this nature.
You will need to give details of any 'unspent' convictions before you submit an application and check your eligibility to join under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.
If you have ever been convicted of an offence you may still be able to apply to join the RAF. All applicants for service in the RAF must declare any previous unspent convictions.
For some roles, you will need to declare both 'spent' and 'unspent' convictions. These include Royal Air Force Police, dental, legal, medical and nursing.
If you have a conviction and you are not sure whether it is spent or unspent, it is strongly recommended that you contact your Citizens Advice Bureau for help or seek independent legal advice. Please be aware that AFCO staff are not qualified to answer queries of this nature.
You will need to give details of any 'unspent' convictions before you submit an application and check your eligibility to join under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.
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I suppose that applying (and reapplying if ness), builds up the profile of someone showing determination and commitment. Perhaps, supporting the App with a covering letter accepting a youthful error but subsequently having learnt from it..?
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mattyh
I am sure that some folks would be able to join after making one mistake...
But then you never made just one!
You CHOSE to drink drive, and then once caught, you CHOSE not to provide a specimen of breath or sample. You will have been asked at the roadside for a specimen of breath, and will have needed to refuse (second mistake)
At the police station you will have been asked again...And refused (third mistake).
You will have had the choice of giving either breath or blood samples and will have again refused (fourth mistake...or in reality, choice)).
Refusing to give a sample portrays someone who is not only dishonest, but who does not also have the moral strength to face up to their actions, and tries to hide behind 'not admitting' what they have done!
If you had consented to giving a sample/specimen they you may have been under the limit (I am sure you know if you were or not though).
Maybe the above will provide the evidence as to whether you are queens commission material, and would be a good leader and inspiration to those around you when times get tough!
I have seen hundreds of servicemen drunk, and this did not bother me if they were not 'at work' so to speak, but those who refuse to accept responsibility for what they have done leaves them beneath my contempt.....The forces can be a really good laugh, but it also gets very serious too, and those serving to be able to count on everyone else around them.
I am sure that some folks would be able to join after making one mistake...
But then you never made just one!
You CHOSE to drink drive, and then once caught, you CHOSE not to provide a specimen of breath or sample. You will have been asked at the roadside for a specimen of breath, and will have needed to refuse (second mistake)
At the police station you will have been asked again...And refused (third mistake).
You will have had the choice of giving either breath or blood samples and will have again refused (fourth mistake...or in reality, choice)).
Refusing to give a sample portrays someone who is not only dishonest, but who does not also have the moral strength to face up to their actions, and tries to hide behind 'not admitting' what they have done!
If you had consented to giving a sample/specimen they you may have been under the limit (I am sure you know if you were or not though).
Maybe the above will provide the evidence as to whether you are queens commission material, and would be a good leader and inspiration to those around you when times get tough!
I have seen hundreds of servicemen drunk, and this did not bother me if they were not 'at work' so to speak, but those who refuse to accept responsibility for what they have done leaves them beneath my contempt.....The forces can be a really good laugh, but it also gets very serious too, and those serving to be able to count on everyone else around them.
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mattyh
Barnstomer's post is spot on whether it be the forces you are intent on joining or elsewhere for the matter.
Everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure that there are millions of skeleton's in closets around the world. Now you can do one of two things (and without sounding like I'm preaching!)
1. You can feel sorry for yourself and hide with your tail between your legs or
2. Stand tall and admit you made a mistake
Yes, Barnstomer is right with regards to choices that were made and the potential consequences of such however if it were me, I'd
stand tall, admit I was foolish & made some wrong choices BUT am brave enough to own up and more importantly learn from this experience.
You will receive knockback's as future employers' may well judge you on this (It's a fact) however what some future employer will see one day is someone who, despite making a judgement of error is doing whatever they can to prove that they've learnt and moved on.
Don't quit on this, bite the bullett fella, stand tall and move on.
All the best
CB
Barnstomer's post is spot on whether it be the forces you are intent on joining or elsewhere for the matter.
Everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure that there are millions of skeleton's in closets around the world. Now you can do one of two things (and without sounding like I'm preaching!)
1. You can feel sorry for yourself and hide with your tail between your legs or
2. Stand tall and admit you made a mistake
Yes, Barnstomer is right with regards to choices that were made and the potential consequences of such however if it were me, I'd
stand tall, admit I was foolish & made some wrong choices BUT am brave enough to own up and more importantly learn from this experience.
You will receive knockback's as future employers' may well judge you on this (It's a fact) however what some future employer will see one day is someone who, despite making a judgement of error is doing whatever they can to prove that they've learnt and moved on.
Don't quit on this, bite the bullett fella, stand tall and move on.
All the best
CB
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Not asking for opinion's on whether I make a good candidate or not, simply asking if the conviction is a no go simply in terms of making an application.
Two's In, I also found that statement after making a post. Started the ball rolling on an application today.
Thanks for the encouragement Cyber Bob.
Last time I applied I was still serving my driving ban so was not eligible, but since they have changed the age limit I now have another window of opportunity.
Thanks for advice/encouragement.
Two's In, I also found that statement after making a post. Started the ball rolling on an application today.
Thanks for the encouragement Cyber Bob.
Last time I applied I was still serving my driving ban so was not eligible, but since they have changed the age limit I now have another window of opportunity.
Thanks for advice/encouragement.
Getting caught but providing sample when legally requested to do so may look bad but the refusal to accept a legal request and maintain than stance is even worse.
Question for an Interviewer would be "Well if applicant X refuses the legal request on something as basic as a road side stop then how can I be certain he would carry out an order as requested by a senior officer".
Question for an Interviewer would be "Well if applicant X refuses the legal request on something as basic as a road side stop then how can I be certain he would carry out an order as requested by a senior officer".
Not asking for opinion's on ...
.
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Barnstormer,
Agree with you totally in principle. Refusing to provide shows a lack of self responsibility that doesn't bode well for a future officer however, just to be a pedant, there's a few misconceptions in your reply.
1) He may not have been asked to provide at the roadside. Where someone is clearly unfit through drink (or drugs) they will be arrested without recourse to the roadside test.
2) He probably wouldn't have been offered breath or bloods. Blood samples are more usually used in the case of hospitalised cases or where the breath sample provided at the station is between 35 and 50 mg. The subject can then be asked to provide blood or urine, the choice being the officers (we generally go for blood so we don't need to stand over someone pretending they cant p*ss for hours)
Either way, not a career enhancing experience generally.
Agree with you totally in principle. Refusing to provide shows a lack of self responsibility that doesn't bode well for a future officer however, just to be a pedant, there's a few misconceptions in your reply.
1) He may not have been asked to provide at the roadside. Where someone is clearly unfit through drink (or drugs) they will be arrested without recourse to the roadside test.
2) He probably wouldn't have been offered breath or bloods. Blood samples are more usually used in the case of hospitalised cases or where the breath sample provided at the station is between 35 and 50 mg. The subject can then be asked to provide blood or urine, the choice being the officers (we generally go for blood so we don't need to stand over someone pretending they cant p*ss for hours)
Either way, not a career enhancing experience generally.
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".. portrays someone who is not only dishonest, but who does not also have the moral strength to face up to their actions, and tries to hide behind 'not admitting' what they have done!"
Dunno about joining the RAF.... You ever thought of running for Parliament?
Dunno about joining the RAF.... You ever thought of running for Parliament?
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At no point did I refuse to give a sample, the matter was complicated and I have no reason to elaborate here.
Please refrain from throwing your uneducated two cents in, my question was one of eligibility, not suitability. I will be the judge of my own suitability to apply, and the board will obviously make their own educated opinion when they meet me.
Thanks again for all the help and support.
Please refrain from throwing your uneducated two cents in, my question was one of eligibility, not suitability. I will be the judge of my own suitability to apply, and the board will obviously make their own educated opinion when they meet me.
Thanks again for all the help and support.
Matt,
A friend's son was in a similar position a couple of years ago and the RAF turned him down on the drink driving offence. He applied to the RN and is now successfully through Dartmouth and waiting to start his pilot training....keep your options open....good luck
Huey
A friend's son was in a similar position a couple of years ago and the RAF turned him down on the drink driving offence. He applied to the RN and is now successfully through Dartmouth and waiting to start his pilot training....keep your options open....good luck
Huey
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Mattyh,
Be aware that if you list 2 salient life points on here, before you know it someone has formed a 20 page psych eval of your moral character, including:
1. Your propensity to homosexuality (joining the RAF).
2. Conflict issues with authority figures (not taking the advice of a pruner).
3. Latent Alcoholism (the DUI).
As you are no doubt aware, being involved with aviation in any capacity requires absolute integrity. Integrity simply means that when you make a mistake, you recognise it and take the appropriate corrective action, whatever the price.
I can't see any indication that you haven't fully understood that principle.
Be aware that if you list 2 salient life points on here, before you know it someone has formed a 20 page psych eval of your moral character, including:
1. Your propensity to homosexuality (joining the RAF).
2. Conflict issues with authority figures (not taking the advice of a pruner).
3. Latent Alcoholism (the DUI).
As you are no doubt aware, being involved with aviation in any capacity requires absolute integrity. Integrity simply means that when you make a mistake, you recognise it and take the appropriate corrective action, whatever the price.
I can't see any indication that you haven't fully understood that principle.
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"I will be the judge of my own suitability to apply"
I wonder why then, you decided to ask folks who are still serving or who have served, their opinions.....Odd really.
But then of course you had already had several opinions from folks in the know, and that has seemed to have gone over your head too
You don't need to go into any details for us, but you did say you received a ban, so it would not be unreasonable for anyone to assume you were guilty (as you never mentioned a miscarriage of justice).
Tashengurt. If an officer decided someone I knew was over the limit (or incapable) at the roadside, then what would they arrest them for? If they wanted the arrest to be linked to the vehicle then they would need to use a Breathalyzer, as they are NOT qualified to access limits accurately enough, and without specific amounts quoted, then purely driving after alcohol is not an arrestable offence is it (although D and D would be another matter of course)?
Either way, this does not concern me greatly as I am tee total. What I have found though is another problem. When I have been stopped and asked if I have been drinking, I always ask to be breathalised just to prove I haven't, which seems to really upset the officers concerned (who may have stopped me because they were bored, and don't have a breathaliser on them anyway). On the whole I kind of expect to be stopped, as I often drive in the early hours of the morning, and would prefer the police to stop folks rather than not as this means the police get to catch more baddies and drunk drivers.
I wonder why then, you decided to ask folks who are still serving or who have served, their opinions.....Odd really.
But then of course you had already had several opinions from folks in the know, and that has seemed to have gone over your head too
You don't need to go into any details for us, but you did say you received a ban, so it would not be unreasonable for anyone to assume you were guilty (as you never mentioned a miscarriage of justice).
Tashengurt. If an officer decided someone I knew was over the limit (or incapable) at the roadside, then what would they arrest them for? If they wanted the arrest to be linked to the vehicle then they would need to use a Breathalyzer, as they are NOT qualified to access limits accurately enough, and without specific amounts quoted, then purely driving after alcohol is not an arrestable offence is it (although D and D would be another matter of course)?
Either way, this does not concern me greatly as I am tee total
. What I have found though is another problem. When I have been stopped and asked if I have been drinking, I always ask to be breathalised just to prove I haven't, which seems to really upset the officers concerned (who may have stopped me because they were bored, and don't have a breathaliser on them anyway). On the whole I kind of expect to be stopped, as I often drive in the early hours of the morning, and would prefer the police to stop folks rather than not as this means the police get to catch more baddies and drunk drivers.
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I wonder why then, you decided to ask folks who are still serving or who have served, their opinions.....Odd really.
Please read initial question before posting.
I do not wish to hear your thoughts or opinions , especially in light of your extremely limited understanding of the situation.
Thanks to everyone how has positively contributed.
Chap,
Give it a go - it's not for you, or some of the other posters on this thread, to decide. Don't ask, don't get.
I got in (albeit 20 odd years ago) with a couple of black marks against my name - both to do with youthful idiocy. It hasn't stopped me rising to a rank I never would have believed when I began IOT (no, not Flt Lt). Also, on my intake was a young man who had just lost his licence for boozing a couple of weeks before IOT - he's now a very successful, senior ranking, fast jet mate.
Give it a go. Just use the experience as a learning opportunity and apply the lesson in future.
Give it a go - it's not for you, or some of the other posters on this thread, to decide. Don't ask, don't get.
I got in (albeit 20 odd years ago) with a couple of black marks against my name - both to do with youthful idiocy. It hasn't stopped me rising to a rank I never would have believed when I began IOT (no, not Flt Lt). Also, on my intake was a young man who had just lost his licence for boozing a couple of weeks before IOT - he's now a very successful, senior ranking, fast jet mate.
Give it a go. Just use the experience as a learning opportunity and apply the lesson in future.