Victor bombing in anger
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Victor bombing in anger
There has been a suggestion over on Flyer that the Victor was used in anger to put the frighteners on the indonesians by dropping bombs offshore.
I knew the Valiant was used at Suez and obviously the Vulcan in the Falklands but have never heard that the Victor dropped anything for real. Dare I ask here whether anyone is ready, willing and able to comment on this story?
I knew the Valiant was used at Suez and obviously the Vulcan in the Falklands but have never heard that the Victor dropped anything for real. Dare I ask here whether anyone is ready, willing and able to comment on this story?
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JOE-FBS, see the article at the bottom of Page 19 on the attached link, "Going for a Song Song". I think this is what you are referring too.
http://www.raf-butterworth-penang-as...istmas2009.pdf
This event took place at the height of 'Konfrontasi' and was well covered in the local press.
http://www.raf-butterworth-penang-as...istmas2009.pdf
This event took place at the height of 'Konfrontasi' and was well covered in the local press.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I don't recall hearing about a drop of 21x1000 at SongSong but when I visited the range in 1964 the range guys told me about a possible similiar incident that could be the basis for the story.
At that time the V-Force had a requirement to drop two single 1000lb HE(S) bombs per year. HE(S) had a reduced spotting charge of 50lbs of RDX.
Anyway one night a Victor set off to drop his two bombs; one on China Rock off Singapore and one on Song Song off Butterworth.
He duly dropped the bomb on China Rock and it was reported 'heard but not seen'. Usually this meant the vis was poor and they range spotters were not looking where the bomb went bang.
The aircraft then flew to Song Song and dropped his second bomb. This too, with perfect viz, was heard but not seen. The crew had applied offsets from the Song Song island where the range party was to the target raft but had applied them in the wrong sense. Instead of dropping 3000 yards or so east they had dropped the same distance to the west.
The distance from Song Song to the mainland is less than 9000 yards.
Finally, someone might recall that the Victor could carry 35 x 1000 rather than the 21 carried by the Vulcan. This is true but the aircraft was underpowered and could not lift that quantity of bombs and a fuel load in the tropics.
At that time the V-Force had a requirement to drop two single 1000lb HE(S) bombs per year. HE(S) had a reduced spotting charge of 50lbs of RDX.
Anyway one night a Victor set off to drop his two bombs; one on China Rock off Singapore and one on Song Song off Butterworth.
He duly dropped the bomb on China Rock and it was reported 'heard but not seen'. Usually this meant the vis was poor and they range spotters were not looking where the bomb went bang.
The aircraft then flew to Song Song and dropped his second bomb. This too, with perfect viz, was heard but not seen. The crew had applied offsets from the Song Song island where the range party was to the target raft but had applied them in the wrong sense. Instead of dropping 3000 yards or so east they had dropped the same distance to the west.
The distance from Song Song to the mainland is less than 9000 yards.
Finally, someone might recall that the Victor could carry 35 x 1000 rather than the 21 carried by the Vulcan. This is true but the aircraft was underpowered and could not lift that quantity of bombs and a fuel load in the tropics.
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PN, if you count the number of bombs falling from the Victor in the photo within the article, you will find that there were indeed 35 dropped during that demonstration.
As for fuel, the aircraft departed from Butterworth and returned there after the drop was made. I do not know how much was taken on board but hardly a need for a full load I would think.
As for fuel, the aircraft departed from Butterworth and returned there after the drop was made. I do not know how much was taken on board but hardly a need for a full load I would think.
Later on in its career XH 667 launched an unplanned and totally unprovoked attack on Germany, namely the Northern city of Bremen.
This a/c was one of a handful of Victors which had been converted to 2-point tankers, ie they had the wing pods but no centre-line hose. Another difference was that there was no rear-view periscope fitted. One night 667 was on an RAF Germany towline, which unlike most towlines (air to air refuelling areas) was entirely located over land. The Nav Radar selected trail, the hose wound out normally, then at full trail just carried on. As there was no periscope a visual check from the Lightning was required, which confirmed that there was no hose present. The sortie was abandoned and 667 returned to base.
The hose was found a day or two later in some gardens in the outskirts of Bremen. No one had been hurt and damage was minimal (no doubt the MOD coughed up for new fences, etc), but the idea of a 60' hose scything through a busy street in the middle of the evening doesn't bear thinking about. Not quite bombing, but the end result could have been the same!
This a/c was one of a handful of Victors which had been converted to 2-point tankers, ie they had the wing pods but no centre-line hose. Another difference was that there was no rear-view periscope fitted. One night 667 was on an RAF Germany towline, which unlike most towlines (air to air refuelling areas) was entirely located over land. The Nav Radar selected trail, the hose wound out normally, then at full trail just carried on. As there was no periscope a visual check from the Lightning was required, which confirmed that there was no hose present. The sortie was abandoned and 667 returned to base.
The hose was found a day or two later in some gardens in the outskirts of Bremen. No one had been hurt and damage was minimal (no doubt the MOD coughed up for new fences, etc), but the idea of a 60' hose scything through a busy street in the middle of the evening doesn't bear thinking about. Not quite bombing, but the end result could have been the same!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Laurie, I stand corrected. The fuel was certainly an issue as the aircraft routinely used all 8000 feet of runway at Butterworth.
I agree about the comment on the RSO
There was a follow up to that photo. A copy was displayed at SAC HQ in Omaha and what so impressed the Americans was the bomb load was exactly the same weight as a standard B52 load 51x750. They then asked Bomber Command for a similar shot photo of the Vulcan dropping 21.
This ws set up for a drop at Aberporth with inerts. The chase aircraft was in position and the aircraft approaching the drop point. At the right range the bomb doors opened and the bombs went - a moment later ground control came up "Stand-by for drop in 5, 4, 3, 2 ............."
No one had told the crew the rop instructions would come from the ground.
The whole thing was set up again and another drop was down with live HE on El Adem range.
I agree about the comment on the RSO
There was a follow up to that photo. A copy was displayed at SAC HQ in Omaha and what so impressed the Americans was the bomb load was exactly the same weight as a standard B52 load 51x750. They then asked Bomber Command for a similar shot photo of the Vulcan dropping 21.
This ws set up for a drop at Aberporth with inerts. The chase aircraft was in position and the aircraft approaching the drop point. At the right range the bomb doors opened and the bombs went - a moment later ground control came up "Stand-by for drop in 5, 4, 3, 2 ............."
No one had told the crew the rop instructions would come from the ground.
The whole thing was set up again and another drop was down with live HE on El Adem range.
but the idea of a 60' hose scything through a busy street in the middle of the evening doesn't bear thinking about
Can almost see Officer Fritz asking "and where were you drinking this evening" and then raiding the bar for selling dodgy booze.
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I can assure you all that 35x1000 lb bombs were dropped on the Song Song range by a Victor. It was XH 648 from XV Sqn, as the photo shows and I helped load them on the aircraft at Butterworth. The photo was taken from a PR Canberra from Singapore. The story goes that it was a brown trouser moment for the duty Range Officer , an RAAF Sabre pilot.
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Indeed Pontifex. In the days before the bean counters put an end to such jollies you will recall there was such a thing as the Westabout Ranger - basically a crew sent off in an aircraft to fly around the world. I am pretty sure the last of these was flown by a crew in 667 - a trip that became known as "Round the World in Eighty Delays".
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In the early 70s 667 belonged to 214. Because of its limited AAR fit it tended to be used as a Sqn 'hack' (CT, night checks etc). For an account of 667 giving real trouble go to Tony Cunnane's site and look at his amusing 'Black Oxgen' story.
Is this where 667's earned its dodgy reputation?
Is this where 667's earned its dodgy reputation?
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but the idea of a 60' hose scything through a busy street in the middle of the evening doesn't bear thinking about
"c/s... I understand that you wish to get rid of your socks?"
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How many 1000 pounders
I flew the Victor in the 60s and have a recall that we could load 36 1Ks on the Mk 1 but the 36th used to nudge the Cold Air Unit on the 1A in the front right corner of the bay
There was an option to load a 500 instead but we never bothered as it was too complicated
That photo has been edited a bit as there was a large carrier between the two layers which should be somewhere in the load but seems to be absent
There was an option to load a 500 instead but we never bothered as it was too complicated
That photo has been edited a bit as there was a large carrier between the two layers which should be somewhere in the load but seems to be absent
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Sorry about the late thread, is 667 the famous Victor that was so unreliable that the crew-bus would approach it from behind so it couldn't see them coming? My Dad is an ex-AEO (XV, 57 & 214) who I remember telling me of such a Victor. It had all sorts of problems including pressurisation problems and flew so infrequently that the tyres would flat-spot causing it to waddle when it was taxied.
