Airtanker reservist pilots
It's not difficult to see that some civvies on here have severe inferiority complexes... and chips on their shoulders about military pilots.
Strange, as I've flown with some really good civvy pilots who are open-minded about guys from both worlds.
Strange, as I've flown with some really good civvy pilots who are open-minded about guys from both worlds.
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I'm ex 216, I fly the A321 LHS at the moment. Does that make me a gash civvy or a hardend AAR pilot?
Most of the posts here are crap. Us 'civvies' always use the autopilot ( try the Greek Islands at night in crap weather), we dont explore the envelope ( try it on an airbus, it doesn't let you).
You'll find the 330 a huge sea change in the way you operate large aircraft.
I've flown with great RAF pilots, I've also flown with some great civvy pilots.
Most of the posts here are crap. Us 'civvies' always use the autopilot ( try the Greek Islands at night in crap weather), we dont explore the envelope ( try it on an airbus, it doesn't let you).
You'll find the 330 a huge sea change in the way you operate large aircraft.
I've flown with great RAF pilots, I've also flown with some great civvy pilots.
Would it be fair to say that it doesn't really matter whether it is a sensible idea ?
If the politicians decide that is going to happen, then money will be chucked at it until it does.....or there is a change of direction.
It wont matter what the squadron personnel think/say or do.
If the politicians decide that is going to happen, then money will be chucked at it until it does.....or there is a change of direction.
It wont matter what the squadron personnel think/say or do.
hunterboy,
You need to appreciate that it (usually) doesn't really matter what people posting on pprune think, say or do....!
Not that this fact in any way inhibits threads like this getting to 178 posts.....
You need to appreciate that it (usually) doesn't really matter what people posting on pprune think, say or do....!
Not that this fact in any way inhibits threads like this getting to 178 posts.....
I think the biggest issue with FSTA is going to be the cost - some great rumours of these AR platforms working out at £70000 per hour wet!
If AirTanker thought it was a licence to print money, there would be no need to consider 3rd party income. Besides, the whole cost is a consequence of the MOD not having the funds to set it up in their own right.
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Matters not a jot....if you believe The Times
Can't post a link as I don't subscribe to The Times online, but it appears that ministers are finally investigating the fact that £2.5 billion's worth of aircraft should not be costing over 5 times that over the life of the PFI. It would appear that the hangar cost £100 million to build - quoted cost for a similar structure at a civilian airport was approx £10 million. And the Chief Executive's salary was, if I recall correctly, in the region of £350k last year.
Mind you, these figures could be wrong as I was also eating my breakfast whilst the autopilot was driving me home in my Airbus. FWIW, I have also manfully wrestled the TriStar around many an eng-out NPA because 'we don't use the AP for that'. Well, now we only fly NPAs with the AP engaged - and pretty soon we'll join the other fleets by effectively flying an RNAV approach overlaid on the NPA. It lets you concentrate on the gorilla that might just bite you in the ar$e.
Mind you, these figures could be wrong as I was also eating my breakfast whilst the autopilot was driving me home in my Airbus. FWIW, I have also manfully wrestled the TriStar around many an eng-out NPA because 'we don't use the AP for that'. Well, now we only fly NPAs with the AP engaged - and pretty soon we'll join the other fleets by effectively flying an RNAV approach overlaid on the NPA. It lets you concentrate on the gorilla that might just bite you in the ar$e.
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You can only wear RAF "Wings" if properly awarded them. There are plenty of ex Army pilots now flying airliners. If joining ATr as a SR they would of course be entitled to wear the Army Flying Badge as awarded during their previous military service.
I would expect many of the jobs to go to ex service pilots, from AirTanker's website they are expecting to recruit 19 next year, 34 in 2012, and 15 in 2013.
I would expect many of the jobs to go to ex service pilots, from AirTanker's website they are expecting to recruit 19 next year, 34 in 2012, and 15 in 2013.
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For those who seem to think that civil pilots are just trained monkeys, unable to to fly manually, think about what they are doing and rack up hundreds of hours in the cruise reading the FT, that's not always the case. The Loco guys do close to the maximum 900 hours per year, and that equates to about 550-600 sectors. they land on postage stamp sized airports with non-precision approaches through the mountains in all sorts of horrible weather and with 100% ice or snow contamination on the runway. They also do plenty of hand flying if working with pragmatic captains like me who don't fully trust the automatics or avionics and like to keep a good grip on the mental air picture. Most of the brand new cadets might be rigid adherers to SOPs, but the more seasoned guys know how to fly within the spirit of the procedures but apply intelligence and experience to get the job done quicker, safer and more efficiently. They're not just inflexible button pushers. There is very little difference between the average abilities and mindsets of the RAF ME and civil pilots.
The question comes back to my original enquiry - how are they likely to be received on a mixed Sqn? I think we have seen that most of the RAF guys are OK with it, but a handful (who are reputedly not on the relevant fleets anyway) seem to be very upset and prejudiced. Pretty much what I had expected.
Thanks for all of your input. I'll let the debate die down now, as the intended information was so well supplied.
The question comes back to my original enquiry - how are they likely to be received on a mixed Sqn? I think we have seen that most of the RAF guys are OK with it, but a handful (who are reputedly not on the relevant fleets anyway) seem to be very upset and prejudiced. Pretty much what I had expected.
Thanks for all of your input. I'll let the debate die down now, as the intended information was so well supplied.
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WhipperS,
There isn't going to be a 'mixed squadron' as such. ATr will operate certain MoD AT tasks under their own AoC and using their own resources. Pilots employed by A Tr will spend the vast majority of their time engaged on these tasks and will not routinely be part of a squadron. As SRs they will undertake a limited amount of AAR sorties, maintaining (just enough) currency in the discipline to allow them to be 'activated' in the event of an operational surge.
There isn't going to be a 'mixed squadron' as such. ATr will operate certain MoD AT tasks under their own AoC and using their own resources. Pilots employed by A Tr will spend the vast majority of their time engaged on these tasks and will not routinely be part of a squadron. As SRs they will undertake a limited amount of AAR sorties, maintaining (just enough) currency in the discipline to allow them to be 'activated' in the event of an operational surge.
What's the feeling on non type rated pilots? Would ATr be prepared to pay for the type rating to get the person they wanted? Which is most important - the person or the current type? Will they have their own TRTO for LPC/OPC purposes or contract that out?
Just curious
DH
Just curious
DH
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Dear, Doc, you wear the correct wings for the service uniform that you are wearing. It does not depend on which service you qualified in. But you must have qualified as a "service" pilot. (Unless you are PMoK) A PPL will not do.
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Am a bit late to this thread but am Airbus rated (6000 + hrs) & also have a couple thousand hours Phantom time supping on AAR.
Maybe I should apply for the job, & hope that as many as possible would take offence at my Nav brevet!
Bring it on!
Skid
Maybe I should apply for the job, & hope that as many as possible would take offence at my Nav brevet!
Bring it on!
Skid
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Incorrect dd, you can only wear the "wings" to which you are entitled by successfully completing the course. An ex Army Pilot could no more wear the RAF version (or want to) than could an ex RAF Nav (apologies skid!), neither of them have done the course. While we are using acronyms even the PoW who already had the wings to go on his blue suit had to complete the Army course before he could wear the Army Flying Badge on his brown suit. Admittedly he was in a course of one which only lasted a morning and had his own wings parade in the mess that lunchtime, or was it in the museum?
What's the feeling on non type rated pilots? Would ATr be prepared to pay for the type rating to get the person they wanted? Which is most important - the person or the current type? Will they have their own TRTO for LPC/OPC purposes or contract that out
My guess is that they will type-rate the majority of their recruits themselves. They have invested in their own sim, and were advertising for an experienced A330 TRI a few months ago. Also, A330 pilots are one of the few types who are in relatively high demand even in the current market - so it would be expensive to recruit only experienced type-rated pilots.
you can only wear the "wings" to which you are entitled by successfully completing the course
) who went home on the Friday in one colour uniform and reappeared days later, doing the same job, in a different colour uniform.There are a couple of PPRuner's who have done such a swap .... perhaps they may soon appear and dispel the myth!
Or were those before them incorrectly dressed!
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All fascinating stuff this; so if I've understood it all properly, you could have SkidMX, an ex RAF F4 navigator, turned pilot, turn up as an employee of the PFI supplier, to fly an A330 as an RAF VR, wearing the uniform of the day, sporting navigator wings. 
I think I'll stick to Volvo trucks; they may cost me £250k a throw, but I don't have half the issues you guys have
I think I'll stick to Volvo trucks; they may cost me £250k a throw, but I don't have half the issues you guys have