Airtanker reservist pilots
Gentleman Aviator
I was involved in the not-too-distant past in the "crossing-over" of a number RN and Army pilots to the RAF. The general rule (or at least practice) for the wearing of RAF wings ("The Flying Badge" to be pedantic) required the "successful completion of an approved RAF course of instruction", which was held to be either an OCU or one of the CFS courses (which they may have already completed in their previous service).
Strictly speaking, the wings shouldn't have been worn before the end of the course (if they hadn't completed one before) , but blind eyes were turned. Particularly necessary for ex-RN pilots; RN regulations specifically prohibit the wearing of RN Wings on RAF or Army uniforms. But I know of at least one transferring Army pilot who wore her Army wings on RAF uniform until the course was completed!
(which confused the bejabers out of some Old Boys at a cockers P, who thought the GPR had been reformed!)
Strictly speaking, the wings shouldn't have been worn before the end of the course (if they hadn't completed one before) , but blind eyes were turned. Particularly necessary for ex-RN pilots; RN regulations specifically prohibit the wearing of RN Wings on RAF or Army uniforms. But I know of at least one transferring Army pilot who wore her Army wings on RAF uniform until the course was completed!
(which confused the bejabers out of some Old Boys at a cockers P, who thought the GPR had been reformed!)
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SkidMX old son, at least if you became a tanker capt you would make better decisions than the prat who lead the formation when we were bringing a singleton F4 back from ASI post the conflict.
I remember it well, looking ahead we could see that the next bracket was going to be right in the ITZ which was really active that day. We requested to take some gas before the zone and then some more after. The answer was a big NO---the plan says we tank there so that's what we will do. As we plunged into the cloud, the hose was streamed and we were cleared astern to watch the basket whipping up and down by a considerable distance and with impressive violence. We managed to get the gas by guess or by God so avoided a trip to Banjul Yundum, to which you admitted you hadn't got any TAPs if I recall!. At least the other tanker capt phoned up with an apology the next day but really---flexibility is the key to Air Power?
I remember it well, looking ahead we could see that the next bracket was going to be right in the ITZ which was really active that day. We requested to take some gas before the zone and then some more after. The answer was a big NO---the plan says we tank there so that's what we will do. As we plunged into the cloud, the hose was streamed and we were cleared astern to watch the basket whipping up and down by a considerable distance and with impressive violence. We managed to get the gas by guess or by God so avoided a trip to Banjul Yundum, to which you admitted you hadn't got any TAPs if I recall!. At least the other tanker capt phoned up with an apology the next day but really---flexibility is the key to Air Power?
''Incorrect dd, you can only wear the "wings" to which you are entitled by successfully completing the course. An ex Army Pilot could no more wear the RAF version (or want to) than could an ex RAF Nav (apologies skid!), neither of them have done the course.''
Not sure about that. In my IOT we had an ex SNCO AAC pilot transferring to the RAF. He wore RAF wings while a cadet and before he did any RAF flying. And another mate got chopped as a RAF Nav, joined the Navy as a pilot and when he left the FAA, joined the local AEF and wore a Blue suit with RAF wings.
Not sure about that. In my IOT we had an ex SNCO AAC pilot transferring to the RAF. He wore RAF wings while a cadet and before he did any RAF flying. And another mate got chopped as a RAF Nav, joined the Navy as a pilot and when he left the FAA, joined the local AEF and wore a Blue suit with RAF wings.
I remember it well, looking ahead we could see that the next bracket was going to be right in the ITZ which was really active that day. We requested to take some gas before the zone and then some more after. The answer was a big NO---the plan says we tank there so that's what we will do.
All subsequent brackets, abort points and the mission plan are automatically updated as well. Compare that with the archaic inaccuracy of RAPS!I do hope that someone has provided something similar for FSTA......
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Beags,
Unfortunately your quote about RAP's there is hoop. You can move the Bkt back as long as you move the AP back the same distance as per the single hose scenario, therefore allowing you the flexibility for such a situation. Failing that you could use the fuel transferred in the previous bkt to move that AP away to maybe allow you to refuel before the cloud. The Route AARC could be used to work a new plan or you could use the AARWIN. But clearly our archaic RAPS is useless.
I do concur, however, that a well written software program will produce more accurate and timely results.
RAP is not perfect but we haven't lost one yet due to a fuel issue. Touch Wood.
Unfortunately your quote about RAP's there is hoop. You can move the Bkt back as long as you move the AP back the same distance as per the single hose scenario, therefore allowing you the flexibility for such a situation. Failing that you could use the fuel transferred in the previous bkt to move that AP away to maybe allow you to refuel before the cloud. The Route AARC could be used to work a new plan or you could use the AARWIN. But clearly our archaic RAPS is useless.
I do concur, however, that a well written software program will produce more accurate and timely results.
RAP is not perfect but we haven't lost one yet due to a fuel issue. Touch Wood.
Trust me - RAPS was never proven with any mathematical rigour. I have the original paper written by JP and it is riddled with generalisations and approximations. When RCR is almost the same as TCR, it produces meaningless results. Similarly, assigning one of 3 values (-1, 0 or +1) to a cosine instead of using the actual value is a gross over simplification (the ill-defined 'ahead, abeam, astern' RAPS conditions).
The only point in RAPS favour was that at least it was better than 'NAPS'!
The MCS is effectively an AARC-in-a-box with an embedded flight planning tool - instead of all the archaic RAPS methodology, it recomputes a trail for any standard refuelling contingency (partial transfer, slow feeder, high burn rate, single hose) much as the old AARWIN program might - only rather quicker. It has 'single click' single-hose replanning functionality and is highly accurate, very quick and easy to use with intuitive HMI. It also writes the FPL and produces a computed flight plan.
Because the plan is updated after every bracket, the wasteful process of keeping receivers in contact until the 'geographic bracket end' is no longer necessary. Disconnect when complete, plug in the next pair, disconnect them when complete, allow a few minutes for receiver fuel quantity systems to stabilie, then do a gravy check, whack the values into the entry fields and click update plan. Seemples.
Recomputing a 6 receiver trail across Australia when one hose fails to trail takes about 2 seconds.....
The only point in RAPS favour was that at least it was better than 'NAPS'!
The MCS is effectively an AARC-in-a-box with an embedded flight planning tool - instead of all the archaic RAPS methodology, it recomputes a trail for any standard refuelling contingency (partial transfer, slow feeder, high burn rate, single hose) much as the old AARWIN program might - only rather quicker. It has 'single click' single-hose replanning functionality and is highly accurate, very quick and easy to use with intuitive HMI. It also writes the FPL and produces a computed flight plan.
Because the plan is updated after every bracket, the wasteful process of keeping receivers in contact until the 'geographic bracket end' is no longer necessary. Disconnect when complete, plug in the next pair, disconnect them when complete, allow a few minutes for receiver fuel quantity systems to stabilie, then do a gravy check, whack the values into the entry fields and click update plan. Seemples.
Recomputing a 6 receiver trail across Australia when one hose fails to trail takes about 2 seconds.....
Ref the "wings on uniform" point, I know there is a specific Army dress regulation that authorises the wearing of RAF "wings" on Army uniform, which as an ex-RAF pilot I did when a TA officer. The benefit of that regulation was also taken by a Deputy Lieutenant of a county who had been a National Service pilot.
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Teeters
Very strange, considering the reverse is not true. I know of an RN chap wearing (with official blessing) an RAF flying badge on his best rig.
RN regulations specifically prohibit the wearing of RN Wings on RAF or Army uniforms.
Gentleman Aviator
That's odd Sargs .... I always understood that RN also forbade other Wings on their uniform. Did he wear it on the chest or on the arm?
As to Lords Lieutenants and Deputy Lieutenants, there's an old SH mate (M*** D******) who's a DL in London and wears wings on his DL kit.
As to Lords Lieutenants and Deputy Lieutenants, there's an old SH mate (M*** D******) who's a DL in London and wears wings on his DL kit.
Gentleman Aviator
Wander00 - the very same. London has a different system from the rest of the country; from the website of the Greater London Lieutenancy:
... and MD is the Representative Deputy Lieutenant for Hammersmith and Fulham.
Because of the size and constitutional structure of London, a non-statutory title and office of Representative Deputy Lieutenant was created in 1951 by Viscount Alanbrooke. The Lord-Lieutenant selects one of his Deputies to represent him in each of the 32 London Boroughs (except the City) shown below. Their main functions are to represent the Lieutenancy and occasionally the Lord-Lieutenant at civic and other official functions, and also to promote voluntary, charitable and youth activities.
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Well remembered 2 TWU.
18 Jul 1982 for that little tanker trail Ascension to Coningsby!
Seem also to remember having to join one tanker using only air-air tacan as radar was u/s!
Skid
18 Jul 1982 for that little tanker trail Ascension to Coningsby!
Seem also to remember having to join one tanker using only air-air tacan as radar was u/s!
Skid
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Teeters:
He's a current Airborne Image Analyst, he had it pinned to his chest on graduation but as far as I know, he's probably going to wear it on his sleeve. He's not the first, by the way - two or three RN Freddies have had official sanction to wear RAF FC flying badges.
Did he wear it on the chest or on the arm?
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wings
All a bit moot since the bit you are talking about is civvy. You will get a pseudo navy uniform, and whatever guilded logobudgie they have chosen on your chest.
If they follow service/ryanair tradition, you may have to buy your own!
If they follow service/ryanair tradition, you may have to buy your own!
I´m reading on that thread since the beginning, and i feel the need to put in my thoughts from the "receiver " point of view.
First of all, i´m retired GAF F-4 front seater and did some flights across the pond to goose-bay and back with lots of AAR over the years. And a very operational crew saved our day on one event.
When you are out there in a fighter aircraft, your only asset might be the tanker and a proficient crew with a lot of understanding for the little necessities. That applies in peace time, and even more when you are in harms way (which i have no expierience myself, but trained for it for 20 years).
Flying a wide body as a flying guest house or trailing hoses might not be that different, the pure handling of the aircraft should not be a problem at all. But just answer yourself a few questions:
Do you feel happy with a schedule and it´s changes done by order and not developed in agreement?
Do you feel happy with 5 fighter aircraft within 30 feet of your aircraft for 6 hours without seeing them, also in bad WX?
Are you happy to do your job when risking being shot at by MXL´s and Gun?
Are you willing to do the same job during the same hours in the same places as the other military officers do?
Is your family willing to cope with the job like any military family does?
Only few questions out of a lot possible ones. And if you can honestly answer all those questions with a loud and clear "YES", then let me ask the last question:
Why did you not apply for the military from the beginning?
franzl
First of all, i´m retired GAF F-4 front seater and did some flights across the pond to goose-bay and back with lots of AAR over the years. And a very operational crew saved our day on one event.
When you are out there in a fighter aircraft, your only asset might be the tanker and a proficient crew with a lot of understanding for the little necessities. That applies in peace time, and even more when you are in harms way (which i have no expierience myself, but trained for it for 20 years).
Flying a wide body as a flying guest house or trailing hoses might not be that different, the pure handling of the aircraft should not be a problem at all. But just answer yourself a few questions:
Do you feel happy with a schedule and it´s changes done by order and not developed in agreement?
Do you feel happy with 5 fighter aircraft within 30 feet of your aircraft for 6 hours without seeing them, also in bad WX?
Are you happy to do your job when risking being shot at by MXL´s and Gun?
Are you willing to do the same job during the same hours in the same places as the other military officers do?
Is your family willing to cope with the job like any military family does?
Only few questions out of a lot possible ones. And if you can honestly answer all those questions with a loud and clear "YES", then let me ask the last question:
Why did you not apply for the military from the beginning?
franzl
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Why did you not apply for the military from the beginning?
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Fanzl, if you read the thread carefully from the beginning, you would know that I, as the original poster of the thread, am ex-RAF (albeit for less time than I had wanted), and that the answer to all of the other points in your post was "yes".