F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
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LL and others,
Perhaps I can help here...
1. The jolt on launch is noticeable and is probably associated with the forces applied by the catapult shuttle on the nose tow bar, which compresses the nose leg as it starts the stroke. I've spoken to a number of 'old and bold' naval aviators, and there is a variety of opinions on how 'hard' the start of a cat stroke is. What I do know is that the US Navair teams are very experienced in this sort of stuff, and I am certain that they will have fully evaluated the forces applied to F-35C pilots' heads and necks during launch. So, my take: looks severe, but very probably OK. What IS interesting (at least to me) is that F-35C launches look as if they are 'both hands free', with pilots' right and left hands holding the handles on the cockpit arch during launch.
2. Maintenance of stealth coatings on board got a LOT of attention in the early days of the JSF programme. There was a recognition that the techniques used on B-2 and F-22 weren't going to 'cut the mustard', and a number of new technologies were developed for F-35. Now, most of this was kept 'US eyes only', but again, given the attention that Navair were giving to this subject, I'd expect that some form of workable solution has been developed. Again, rather a qualitative assessment, but the F-35's approach to physical signature reduction appeared to be less 'extreme' than some of the solutions applied to B-2 and F-22.
3. A/B on launch: the F-35C launches shown so far appear to be at relatively low weights, which is understandable. Also, the A/B on the F-35 does not deliver the huge increases in thrust that happened with aircraft like the F-4 - I believe that the difference between dry and full A/B is about 4,500 pounds. So, I'd expect fewer A/B launches with F-35C.
Hope this helps, best regards as ever to all those working hard to deliver the new aircraft to the front line,
Engines
Perhaps I can help here...
1. The jolt on launch is noticeable and is probably associated with the forces applied by the catapult shuttle on the nose tow bar, which compresses the nose leg as it starts the stroke. I've spoken to a number of 'old and bold' naval aviators, and there is a variety of opinions on how 'hard' the start of a cat stroke is. What I do know is that the US Navair teams are very experienced in this sort of stuff, and I am certain that they will have fully evaluated the forces applied to F-35C pilots' heads and necks during launch. So, my take: looks severe, but very probably OK. What IS interesting (at least to me) is that F-35C launches look as if they are 'both hands free', with pilots' right and left hands holding the handles on the cockpit arch during launch.
2. Maintenance of stealth coatings on board got a LOT of attention in the early days of the JSF programme. There was a recognition that the techniques used on B-2 and F-22 weren't going to 'cut the mustard', and a number of new technologies were developed for F-35. Now, most of this was kept 'US eyes only', but again, given the attention that Navair were giving to this subject, I'd expect that some form of workable solution has been developed. Again, rather a qualitative assessment, but the F-35's approach to physical signature reduction appeared to be less 'extreme' than some of the solutions applied to B-2 and F-22.
3. A/B on launch: the F-35C launches shown so far appear to be at relatively low weights, which is understandable. Also, the A/B on the F-35 does not deliver the huge increases in thrust that happened with aircraft like the F-4 - I believe that the difference between dry and full A/B is about 4,500 pounds. So, I'd expect fewer A/B launches with F-35C.
Hope this helps, best regards as ever to all those working hard to deliver the new aircraft to the front line,
Engines
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F-35 Lightning II Program Status and Fast Facts May 9, 2016
F-35C F135-PW-100; 40,000 lbs Max.; 25,000 lbs Mil.
Maximum Power (Max) = with afterburner; Military Power (Mil) = without afterburner;
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa81...cts_2q2016.pdf (75Kb)
F-35C F135-PW-100; 40,000 lbs Max.; 25,000 lbs Mil.
Maximum Power (Max) = with afterburner; Military Power (Mil) = without afterburner;
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa81...cts_2q2016.pdf (75Kb)
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F-35 Lightning II Program Status and Fast Facts May 9, 2016
F-35C F135-PW-100; 40,000 lbs Max.; 25,000 lbs Mil.
Maximum Power (Max) = with afterburner; Military Power (Mil) = without afterburner;
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa81...cts_2q2016.pdf (75Kb)
F-35C F135-PW-100; 40,000 lbs Max.; 25,000 lbs Mil.
Maximum Power (Max) = with afterburner; Military Power (Mil) = without afterburner;
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa81...cts_2q2016.pdf (75Kb)
Damn complicated stuff, this cat and trap stuff.
Best regards as ever to all those working the cat launch sums,
Engines
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No worries. DT-II was about finding limits for catapults and arrests. The catapult has no trouble for a max. weight launch for an F-35C - with or without burner I have no idea. However the burner is variable on the catapult much the same as the Super Hornet. It is some percentage below full burner during initial part of launch and at full burner by the end - all automatic - from 'pop' stall lessons learnt with the Super Hornet which is at 122% at JBD on burner then automatically at 150% by the end by design change. This was built in to the F-35C from the getgo. The amiable butler wrote about this some time back when F-35C was JBD testing but PDF no longer available at URL:
JBD Testing A Key Step For Joint Strike Fighter Aviation Week & Space Technology Jul 18, 2011 p.84
Amy Butler | Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J.
http://www.navair.navy.mil/lakehurst...BD_Testing.pdf
VIDEO shows variable burner I believe, sound guys play air guitar, DT-11 2015
JBD Testing A Key Step For Joint Strike Fighter Aviation Week & Space Technology Jul 18, 2011 p.84
Amy Butler | Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J.
"...Even without the more extensive data provided by today’s sensor array, Super Hornet engineers gained valuable experience during JBD trials that led to a change in how the aircraft is launched. During testing, hot air was inadvertently recirculated into the air intake of the Super Hornet, prompting a “pop stall,” or hiccup in the airflow for the propulsion system. The result was a dangerous fireball coughing from the back of the Super Hornet, says Briggs.
The design fix was the creation of a limited afterburner setting for launch. Engineers crafted software such that the engine is at 122% of military power when a pilot sets it to afterburner. By the time the jet reaches the edge of the deck, the system automatically opens the throttle to full afterburner at 150% of power without intervention by the pilot, says Briggs.
Having completed the first phase of JBD trials with a single F-35C, engineers are eager to test a more realistic scenario with one aircraft in front of the deflector and one behind.
Because of this lesson, the limited afterburner setting was designed into the F-35 in its infancy...."
The design fix was the creation of a limited afterburner setting for launch. Engineers crafted software such that the engine is at 122% of military power when a pilot sets it to afterburner. By the time the jet reaches the edge of the deck, the system automatically opens the throttle to full afterburner at 150% of power without intervention by the pilot, says Briggs.
Having completed the first phase of JBD trials with a single F-35C, engineers are eager to test a more realistic scenario with one aircraft in front of the deflector and one behind.
Because of this lesson, the limited afterburner setting was designed into the F-35 in its infancy...."
VIDEO shows variable burner I believe, sound guys play air guitar, DT-11 2015
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 25th Aug 2016 at 20:10. Reason: add video
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Picture here shows the two hands on the towel racks just after cat shot leaving deck:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8746452
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8746452
LL and others,
Perhaps I can help here...
1. The jolt on launch is noticeable and is probably associated with the forces applied by the catapult shuttle on the nose tow bar, which compresses the nose leg as it starts the stroke. I've spoken to a number of 'old and bold' naval aviators, and there is a variety of opinions on how 'hard' the start of a cat stroke is. What I do know is that the US Navair teams are very experienced in this sort of stuff, and I am certain that they will have fully evaluated the forces applied to F-35C pilots' heads and necks during launch. So, my take: looks severe, but very probably OK. What IS interesting (at least to me) is that F-35C launches look as if they are 'both hands free', with pilots' right and left hands holding the handles on the cockpit arch during launch.
2. Maintenance of stealth coatings on board got a LOT of attention in the early days of the JSF programme. There was a recognition that the techniques used on B-2 and F-22 weren't going to 'cut the mustard', and a number of new technologies were developed for F-35. Now, most of this was kept 'US eyes only', but again, given the attention that Navair were giving to this subject, I'd expect that some form of workable solution has been developed. Again, rather a qualitative assessment, but the F-35's approach to physical signature reduction appeared to be less 'extreme' than some of the solutions applied to B-2 and F-22.
3. A/B on launch: the F-35C launches shown so far appear to be at relatively low weights, which is understandable. Also, the A/B on the F-35 does not deliver the huge increases in thrust that happened with aircraft like the F-4 - I believe that the difference between dry and full A/B is about 4,500 pounds. So, I'd expect fewer A/B launches with F-35C.
Hope this helps, best regards as ever to all those working hard to deliver the new aircraft to the front line,
Engines
Perhaps I can help here...
1. The jolt on launch is noticeable and is probably associated with the forces applied by the catapult shuttle on the nose tow bar, which compresses the nose leg as it starts the stroke. I've spoken to a number of 'old and bold' naval aviators, and there is a variety of opinions on how 'hard' the start of a cat stroke is. What I do know is that the US Navair teams are very experienced in this sort of stuff, and I am certain that they will have fully evaluated the forces applied to F-35C pilots' heads and necks during launch. So, my take: looks severe, but very probably OK. What IS interesting (at least to me) is that F-35C launches look as if they are 'both hands free', with pilots' right and left hands holding the handles on the cockpit arch during launch.
2. Maintenance of stealth coatings on board got a LOT of attention in the early days of the JSF programme. There was a recognition that the techniques used on B-2 and F-22 weren't going to 'cut the mustard', and a number of new technologies were developed for F-35. Now, most of this was kept 'US eyes only', but again, given the attention that Navair were giving to this subject, I'd expect that some form of workable solution has been developed. Again, rather a qualitative assessment, but the F-35's approach to physical signature reduction appeared to be less 'extreme' than some of the solutions applied to B-2 and F-22.
3. A/B on launch: the F-35C launches shown so far appear to be at relatively low weights, which is understandable. Also, the A/B on the F-35 does not deliver the huge increases in thrust that happened with aircraft like the F-4 - I believe that the difference between dry and full A/B is about 4,500 pounds. So, I'd expect fewer A/B launches with F-35C.
Hope this helps, best regards as ever to all those working hard to deliver the new aircraft to the front line,
Engines
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Info on different load outs and HMDS III testing along with JPALS:
The Navy's F-35 variant has successfully completed testing with a max weapon load - Business Insider
The Navy's F-35 variant has successfully completed testing with a max weapon load - Business Insider
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https://www.dvidshub.net/image/28188...rge-washington
"160823-N-RG522-334 ATLANTIC OCEAN (Aug. 23, 2016) An F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, assigned to the Salty Dogs of Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23, approaches the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73). VX-23 is conducting its third and final developmental test (DT-III) phase aboard George Washington in the Atlantic Ocean. The F-35C is expected to be Fleet operational in 2018. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Jonathan Price)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/2818807
"160823-N-RG522-334 ATLANTIC OCEAN (Aug. 23, 2016) An F-35C Lightning II carrier variant, assigned to the Salty Dogs of Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23, approaches the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73). VX-23 is conducting its third and final developmental test (DT-III) phase aboard George Washington in the Atlantic Ocean. The F-35C is expected to be Fleet operational in 2018. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Jonathan Price)" https://www.dvidshub.net/download/image/2818807
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I might be repeating a point here but what is the point of spending billions of dollars on a stealth aircraft only to hang all it's s##t outside?
More importantly all that the above will do is lead to over utilisation of the aircraft (outside of its stealth role) with subsequent degradation of the finish and technological aspects that provide the LO capability..
Meanwhile a reality check..
More importantly all that the above will do is lead to over utilisation of the aircraft (outside of its stealth role) with subsequent degradation of the finish and technological aspects that provide the LO capability..
Meanwhile a reality check..
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This pod is happy to be 'on speed' (Optimum Angle of Attack).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockhe...n/29182351665/
"An F-35C Lightning II comes in for a landing on USS George Washington (CVN-73) while carrying external stores during F-35C Development Test III. Lockheed Martin photo by Michael D. Jackson. 21 Aug 2016"
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/...7e8eb8_o_d.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockhe...n/29182351665/
"An F-35C Lightning II comes in for a landing on USS George Washington (CVN-73) while carrying external stores during F-35C Development Test III. Lockheed Martin photo by Michael D. Jackson. 21 Aug 2016"
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/...7e8eb8_o_d.jpg
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I might be repeating a point here but what is the point of spending billions of dollars on a stealth aircraft only to hang all it's s##t outside?
More importantly all that the above will do is lead to over utilisation of the aircraft (outside of its stealth role) with subsequent degradation of the finish and technological aspects that provide the LO capability..
Read Justin Bronk's comments on IR of both F-22 and F-35. Here's a clue: F-22 is hotter than F-35....
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Weapons Tester Cites Further F-35 Challenges 23 Aug 2016 Lara Seligman
Weapons Tester Cites Further F-35 Challenges | Defense content from Aviation Week
"...the program is discovering integration problems with both SDB 1 and AIM-9X. DOT&E is particularly concerned with December testing of the AIM-9X, which revealed “load exceedances,” or excess stress, on the Navy F-35C variant’s wing structure during landings and certain maneuvers. This will either limit the F-35C’s ability to carry AIM-9X or require a redesign and testing of the supporting wing structure, DOT&E says..."
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MSOCS,
The real proof of the pudding will come on the day the F-35 will sneak up behind a Russian bomber undetected and follow it like two F-22s demonstrated very recently. So tell us, when will that day come and the real F-35 magic, you point out, demonstrated?
How many times do you need to be told that stealth isn't the only reason for the F-35? The real magic is 'under the bonnet' so avoid getting absorbed by the paint or colour of the car.
Weapons Tester Cites Further F-35 Challenges 23 Aug 2016 Lara Seligman
Weapons Tester Cites Further F-35 Challenges | Defense content from Aviation Week
Weapons Tester Cites Further F-35 Challenges | Defense content from Aviation Week
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For HORNET boosters: http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2016/08/...e-navys-f-35c/
____________________________
First Fleet F35-C Carrier Qualifications, Final Round of Testing Conducted at Sea 26 Aug 2016 Donna Cipolloni
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=96397
____________________________
First Fleet F35-C Carrier Qualifications, Final Round of Testing Conducted at Sea 26 Aug 2016 Donna Cipolloni
"...Cmdr. Ted "Dutch" Dyckman, Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23 test pilot, landing signal officer, and squadron operations officer at Pax River, started out flying F/A-18 Hornets, moved to F/A-18 Super Hornets, and now flies the F-35C. This was his third ship trip and 50th trap -- and he has a definite favorite.
"I prefer the F-35," he said. "It's easy to fly, autopilot is nice, cockpit has good visibility, and mission systems make it easy to do your task."
One of the most difficult and hazardous tasks in naval aviation is landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier, something now made simpler by Delta Flight Path. Developed by Lockheed Martin after a lot of crosstalk and technology sharing with NAVAIR personnel, the semi-automated landing mode significantly helps lower a pilot's workload task.
"The control laws allow aircraft to fly a commanded glide slope," Dyckman said. "Before, you had to manually fly that path through the air. Now, at the push of a button, the airplane will tip over and fly that path. If I have a good approach behind ship, I can push one button. If there are deviations, I can make a correction. Other than that, I may not touch the stick at all during the approach, from the start until touchdown. Coming to the ship is as easy as landing on an airfield now and that enables us to spend less time training guys to land on the ship."
Other testing involved improved nighttime visibility for the aircraft's third generation helmet, which displays symbology right on the pilot's visor.
"I don't have to look down for a piece of info on one display, then to another display and correlate it all in my head; everything appears in the helmet," Dyckman said. "When I look out, even if I'm looking away from where I'm going, I can see my target information, airspeed, altitude, threats. With this airplane, I basically have a display with my aircraft in the center and it presents information for situational awareness."..."
"I prefer the F-35," he said. "It's easy to fly, autopilot is nice, cockpit has good visibility, and mission systems make it easy to do your task."
One of the most difficult and hazardous tasks in naval aviation is landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier, something now made simpler by Delta Flight Path. Developed by Lockheed Martin after a lot of crosstalk and technology sharing with NAVAIR personnel, the semi-automated landing mode significantly helps lower a pilot's workload task.
"The control laws allow aircraft to fly a commanded glide slope," Dyckman said. "Before, you had to manually fly that path through the air. Now, at the push of a button, the airplane will tip over and fly that path. If I have a good approach behind ship, I can push one button. If there are deviations, I can make a correction. Other than that, I may not touch the stick at all during the approach, from the start until touchdown. Coming to the ship is as easy as landing on an airfield now and that enables us to spend less time training guys to land on the ship."
Other testing involved improved nighttime visibility for the aircraft's third generation helmet, which displays symbology right on the pilot's visor.
"I don't have to look down for a piece of info on one display, then to another display and correlate it all in my head; everything appears in the helmet," Dyckman said. "When I look out, even if I'm looking away from where I'm going, I can see my target information, airspeed, altitude, threats. With this airplane, I basically have a display with my aircraft in the center and it presents information for situational awareness."..."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 27th Aug 2016 at 20:09. Reason: format
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The real proof of the pudding will come on the day the F-35 will sneak up behind a Russian bomber undetected and follow it like two F-22s demonstrated very recently. So tell us, when will that day come and the real F-35 magic, you point out, demonstrated?
JATK, you need some sleep. Go and re-read some of your posts which I'm sure will send you off in no time. Works for me.
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http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post9485226
'Darren_P' said: [My guess is that a NATOPS check will be made to secure visor before catapulting]
'Darren_P' said: [My guess is that a NATOPS check will be made to secure visor before catapulting]
"I noticed that especially at 3:51 where something on the pilot's helmet appears to unexpectedly pop up."