Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 1st Jun 2018, 17:17
  #11361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,633
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
All he has to do is to let them transit/leave Turkey for Europe and you'll see some REAL costs
Oh no we won't.
glad rag is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2018, 18:03
  #11362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,085
Originally Posted by glad rag View Post
Oh no we won't.
when a few thousand people turn up at the Greek border what are you going to do ?

Shoot them??

Anyway this thread is drifting........
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2018, 18:53
  #11363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Lon UK
Posts: 276
Well the thread was about the cancellation of the F-35 and what would happen then, which, doesn’t appear to be happening. What is presently of interest is will Turkey’s F-25’s be cancelled?

With a total estimated intended run of around 3K, a 100 of them is not an F-35 killer, and may in fact save the US money, as one isn’t quite sure how Turkey was going to pay for them anyway. In earlier times they many probably have counted upon US military largesse, but that might just be a bit of an ask these days.
Brat is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2018, 19:19
  #11364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,085
doubt they'll build 3000 TBH too expensive............... and very late
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2018, 23:30
  #11365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: South Skerry
Posts: 305
They're going to build at least 3800 of them (2443 for the US, 600 for the partners and 800 FMS).

That's what it says here, and to paraphrase the Bard, Dr Thompson is an honourable man.

After all, he was the one who assured us in November 2009 that everything was going just tickety-ing-boo. And shucks, he had it pretty well right. Aside from the program office director getting canned two months later and the fact that it took more than three years before anyone could commit to an IOC date. Details, details.

The important point is that one must not underestimate the value of a paper commitment to a certain quantity of airplanes, because an irritating provision of Nunn-McCurdy is that it considers that naughty ol' PAUC.

So you might think that LM is sending Herr Doktor out to big up the production numbers and protect the PAUC estimate. But that's impossible, for Dr Thompson (as noted above) is an honourable man.
George K Lee is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 09:24
  #11366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West London
Posts: 1,009
Wasn't the rumour that the first 4 were due to arrive at Marham today............or was that just wishful thinking and spin, like most things related to this aircraft
GeeRam is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 11:42
  #11367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The sunny South
Posts: 749
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Wasn't the rumour that the first 4 were due to arrive at Marham today............or was that just wishful thinking and spin, like most things related to this aircraft
As opposed to the opinionated ignorance some on here regurgitate from the Daily Mail and similarly 'reliable' sources?
FODPlod is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 11:45
  #11368 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,071
Maybe they have and nobody saw them?
ORAC is online now  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 11:56
  #11369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lincs
Posts: 2,146
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Wasn't the rumour that the first 4 were due to arrive at Marham today............or was that just wishful thinking and spin, like most things related to this aircraft
Rumour is that weather issues US side has delayed the departure. RAF Marham have released the following.


Well done RAF Marham and the local landowners for arranging the following for people to view the arrival.

TEEEJ is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 12:05
  #11370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 640
From UKDJ...
Due to bad weather, the expected arrival of the first British F-35Bs to the UK today has been cancelled. They will arrive at the earliest opportunity and remain two months ahead of schedule.
Rightfully, the RAF want to ensure optimal conditions for the flight, and safety remains paramount. Tomorrow remains a possibility.Obviously these aircraft can fly in bad weather but given there's no operational imperative to do so, they're not taking the risk with the lives of those involved for a photo-op. This is standard practice with all types unless on operations, risking crew and equipment when not required would be foolish. Let's not forget the risk bad weather adds to aerial refuelling. If you still think this is terrible, we might suggest you strap yourself in and give flying them over a go.
Nige321 is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 12:06
  #11371 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bourton-on-the-Water
Posts: 874
RAF is tweeting
decision is based flight safety - trails require fit sea states and diversions - these are not available today, but may be tomorrow...
airsound
airsound is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 12:29
  #11372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,633
Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
From UKDJ...
Highly defensive article written to stifle debate.

Anyway, who is providing the AAR?
glad rag is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 12:59
  #11373 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bourton-on-the-Water
Posts: 874
glad rag
Anyway, who is providing the AAR?
RAF Voyagers

airsound
airsound is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2018, 13:14
  #11374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 66
Posts: 1,954
Originally Posted by glad rag View Post
Highly defensive article written to stifle debate.
What a fascinatingly conspiratorial turn of phrase....."written to stifle debate."
KenV is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 07:35
  #11375 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,071
Read those last few words in the context of identified, potential life-threatening, category 1 deficiencies.......

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ction-gao-says

F-35 Defects Must Be Fixed Before Full-Production, GAO Says

The Defense Department office that oversees the F-35 program was criticized by a government watchdog for its plans to delay fixing critical deficiencies on the fighter until after a decision to start full-rate production is made -- a move that won’t come before October 2019.

The F-35 -- the world’s most expensive weapons program -- had 966 “open deficiencies” as of January, the Government Accountability Office said in an annual report released Tuesday. Of those, at least 180 “will not be resolved before full-rate production” under the Pentagon office’s current plans, according to the report. The production decision would commit the U.S. to building 77 or more of the Lockheed Martin Corp. aircraft per year over the next 12 years, up from 70 this year. Output would peak at 105 aircraft in 2023 at an annual cost of $13.4 billion and stay at that rate for six years. That makes it imperative for the Pentagon to fix the deficiencies before a decision about production -- the most profitable phase for Lockheed -- is made, the report said.

Over the past year, the Pentagon “has made progress in completing the F-35 development program,” GAO said. “However, in its rush to cross the finish line, the program has made some decisions that are likely to affect aircraft performance and reliability and maintainability for years to come.” The GAO report broke down the shortfalls into two categories: Category 1 deficiencies are defined as “those that could jeopardize safety, security, or another critical requirement,” while Category 2 deficiencies “are those that could impede or constrain successful mission accomplishment.” The report cited 111 Category 1 and 855 Category 2 deficiencies........

F-35 program office spokesman Joe DellaVedova said via email that, as with past GAO assessments, this one was completed with the office’s “full cooperation and unfettered access to information. There were no surprises in the report and the items mentioned are well known,” he said.

“The program already has actions in work for the GAO’s recommendations to address deficiencies and identify steps to meet reliability and maintainability requirements,” he said. Officials expect the F-35 Program “to resolve all critical deficiencies prior to entering” combat testing “with either a fix,” a service-approved work around “or a formal acceptance of the deficiency,” he added







ORAC is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 18:46
  #11376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 640
They are on their way...
Nige321 is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 19:41
  #11377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,488
Indeed they are - heck of a long trip!

From what I could see, the first Voyager RRR9101 brought them up the Eastern US seaboard from Charleston, before handing over to a pair of Voyagers from Gander for the pond crossing (an 'interesting' RV) on the southern route as a 6-ship cell, whilst RRR9101 landed at Gander.

Currently at 18:40Z just approaching Yeovil, but it looks like the Voyagers have now split formation - RRR9103 is at F180, but RRR9102 is passing F120.

Last edited by BEagle; 6th Jun 2018 at 19:58.
BEagle is online now  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 20:15
  #11378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Frensham Surrey 51.143734 -0.79448986 SU 84426 38972
Age: 56
Posts: 244
Live feed from Anglia TV

Wokkafans is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2018, 23:06
  #11379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 2,094
F-35B arrives tonght

Here are my attempts at tonights arrival in sunny deepest Nortolk, starting off with Benson's finest lol

cheers









chopper2004 is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2018, 08:12
  #11380 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,071
Is that somebody shouting Dave! Dave! at the end?.........

ORAC is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.