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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 19th Jul 2017, 05:00
  #10661 (permalink)  
 
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Some sensible detail about that 'low light flat deck F-35B landing' during DT-III some time back. Quotable Quote is excellent:
"Officials with the Pentagon’s F-35 program office remain tight-lipped about a troubling issue with the Joint Strike Fighter‘s helmet night-vision camera that forced a test pilot to land “in a fog” on an amphibious ship last fall. But they say improvements to the software in the pricey helmet are underway and will be ready for testing this fall. The problem landing came to light this month, when the Flight Test Safety Committee posted videos from a May workshop in McLean, Virginia to its website.... [excerpt below]

...In his presentation, Fields [Marine Lt. Col. Tom Fields, F-35 government flight test director] gave credit to the pilot, who positioned himself on the flight deck using two generators he remembered walking past on his way to the aircraft.

“I think his words later were, ‘screw you, ship, I’m landing on you,'” Fields said. “We got lucky. There is no way around it. We got very lucky that night.” https://www.defensetech.org/2017/07/...landing-video/ Hope Hodge Seck July 19, 2017

"Video recently released by the Navy shows an F-35B pilot landing the aircraft "in a fog" aboard an amphibious ship in fall 2016 due to a problem with the night-vision camera on the helmet mounted display. (screen grab from U.S. Navy video)"

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 19th Jul 2017 at 05:24. Reason: + video
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Old 19th Jul 2017, 21:56
  #10662 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
The article certainly didn't make pleasant reading. How much is ill-informed, or hyperbole, I cannot say ... but it sounds seriously dismal even if only part of it is accurate.
With Red Flag-3 (US only), now beginning, with two services, USAF and USMC, putting their respective F-35 models into action the results will no doubt be of great assistance to UK planners for their future decisions on the numbers and types, as the respective strengths/weaknesses of each model, and unit deployment/performance can be assessed.

With regard to the Times article, it is interesting to hear directly from the chiefs of staff who will be responsible for tactically employing these aircraft in any future conflict, and, from the men who will be out there fighting with the new aircraft and hoping to come back. This was from the recent previous Red Flag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgLjNsB_hyM

Its a sort of ...pudding thing.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 08:11
  #10663 (permalink)  
 
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300 indicated at 34650' (M0.86) for routine AAR must be interesting...

But that big, expensive helmet still looks like a significant risk to me. Yes, it's very clever with the distributed vision system and all the projected symbology, but how often would the average fighter pilot find him/herself clouting it against the canopy when moving his/her head to look out normally? And if the pilot drops it whilst walking out or crewing-in, is it tough enough to cope?
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 08:21
  #10664 (permalink)  
 
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IF the HMDS was fragile we would have heard about it by now. There are concerns during catapulting that are being sorted. With new lightweight HMDS the pilot will carry a visor for day or night depending on situation to have only one visor fitted (a cockpit space for other visor needs to be found). Does the cockpit look roomy to you and have you any stories that indicate your worst HMDS fears? OMG the pilot is put in charge of a 100 million dollar airyplane - wot if he fckus up? 100 mil down the drain - wattle they think of next?
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 08:39
  #10665 (permalink)  
 
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You really think we would have heard about it?

Has it been deliberately knocked off a table or dropped during simulated everyday use? Or are such tests on a $400k helmet deemed unnecessary. I hope that the first time someone finds out won't be when a pilot slips on a wet deck.

As for having to change visors when it gets dark / light, how many hands does that take? Day visor off, where do I put that? In the night visor stowage...which is still occupied. OK, I'll balance it on my knees whilst faffing about with the night visor....oops, it's now somewhere on the floor which I cannot reach whilst I'm wearing this damn helmet...and now it's down by the rudder pedals.

Having to change visors in flight is frankly ridiculous.
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 08:56
  #10666 (permalink)  
 
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I give in - so many unanswerable questions. Just provide some evidence please. My common sense informs me that the HMDS is rugged enough for every day use whilst that would have been part of the specifications for it. Everything about military equipment is that it is designed for the rugged outdoors (can't say about Brit equp butt). Do night vision goggle peeps wear their night vision goggles during daylight? Just flip 'em down I suppose and get rid of them before ejecting - yeah right.

We are told the F-35 has a good auto pilot which pilot can control very easily with simple switchology - so hands free flying is a no brainer. I'll guess fumblebum pilots are weeded out long before they get to the F-35. Shirley Frankly is my ridiculous middle name.

By the by with one switch the pilot can view behind with HMDS via the DAS - targets are tracked through 360 degrees - they know where youse are at and they keep track within at least ten miles and can differentiate between bogies & goodies which many stories relate is very difficult with modern aircraft having seemingly similar visual characteristics.

As for the HMDS tests. By golly gee they test a 100 million dollar airyplane thoroughly over many years - ya think they will get around to testing the HMDS under many conditions? OH NO they have to treat it as though it is a FABERGE EGG!
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 09:17
  #10667 (permalink)  
 
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For 'BEagle': the very first F-35A has been destroyed (eventually) during Live Fire Evaluation tests LFE. I think destroying one or several HMDS for testing purposes is easy enough but I have no information that this was done. This 2.5Mb PDF has a tonne of info about it from 2010: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a528013.pdf
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 10:10
  #10668 (permalink)  
 
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'BEagle' I'm hoping we do not lose a pilot or airyplane to this ongoing OBOGS/oygen supply mystery. This latest incident cause was soon found but not previous. However 'help is on the way' and it seems will be tested and retested - any volunteers? Pick Me Pick Me Pick Me!

Fix Elusive As Another F-35 Pilot Reports Trouble Breathing | Defense content from Aviation Week
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Old 20th Jul 2017, 21:20
  #10669 (permalink)  
 
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So everything just going swimmingly then.....
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 07:22
  #10670 (permalink)  
 
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No. Does it ever on complex equipment?


You really think we would have heard about it?
How many helmets and how long have they been used? With the number of operational aircraft, hour flown, and critics ready to jump on every known weakness before now, it would most probably have been highlighted. It was after all designed, in part, for protection.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 10:46
  #10671 (permalink)  
 
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Project to big to cancel?

"You can fix everything with time and money"

Nope!

Just ask Musk!!

Well it is "his" money after all......

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comm...ead_elon_musk/
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 03:31
  #10672 (permalink)  
 
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A few years back an Australian Federal Parliament Enquiry into the F-35 consistently spelt helmet 'HELMUT'. I like it. Often this vital bit of info about the helmut liner being the part which is individually fitted to the pilot noggin is left out - therefore the helmut liner is transferable to another suitable helmet (in case the original needs some work). HANCHE

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HMDStitleSMALL.jpg (132.2 KB, 3 views)
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 04:07
  #10673 (permalink)  
 
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One year ago a Gen Bogged Down explanation about HELMUT wait time / 2 visors etc.

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Old 25th Jul 2017, 18:58
  #10674 (permalink)  
 
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"Too big to cancel" happened a long time ago.
Fancy helmet. I hope it is fit for purpose. (See what I did there? )
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 21:47
  #10675 (permalink)  
 
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Still less expensive than a formula one car's steering wheel.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 22:14
  #10676 (permalink)  
 
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How much does the latest whizbang wide view HUD cost? Buehler? Anyone? Dunno. Head Hanche from Norway has an answer for the view (from an F-35A I will guess).
"...A negative in training one on one has been that the view out of the cockpit is not as good as on the F-16. The visibility in a F-16 is especially good, better than in any other fighter I've flown. I could turn all the way around in my seat and see the opposite wingtip. In the F-35 I can't do that because the seat blocks some of the view. This made me a bit frustrated after the first flights. I had to learn to move different. Now I move forward in the seat before I lean a bit sideways and turn my head to look back. That way I can look around the sides of the seat. In the F-35 you learn to work around the issue and it's not a real disadvantage once you know how to do it...." http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=23004 (PDF 0.8Mb)
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 23:32
  #10677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad View Post
How much does the latest whizbang wide view HUD cost? Buehler? Anyone? Dunno. Head Hanche from Norway has an answer for the view (from an F-35A I will guess).
The PT regime for this fighter means more neck exercises, if this gentleman's observation is the gospel. That and strong abs, strong core, if you are moving your whole body during a fight with a G load on.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 00:20
  #10678 (permalink)  
 
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Only one kind of g load to undergo in a turning fight. High, rapid onset, but brief.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 00:27
  #10679 (permalink)  
 
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Doc! My Neck Hurts PDF 1Mb from APPROACH Lt. Mark Jacoby and Tina Avelar in USN Flying Safety Magazine APPROACH March/April 2007: http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=17656 (1Mb 2 page PDF)

The A-4A to A-4F had abysmal rear views and my neck still hurts. Apparently yonks ago in 2008 a future change to the F-35s was a wider, more capacious canopy. The pilot can still look rearwards via HMDS to 6 o'clock view with a button press.

From 2008 Canopy Expansion Notional BLOCK 6: http://norway.usembassy.gov/root/pdf...rt-1_dista.pdf NOT WORKING

NOW at : http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-14514.html (PDF 3.5Mb) [see page 15 / 9 of 11 wide pages]
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 13:14
  #10680 (permalink)  
 
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With Red Flag 2017-3 ending shortly, the USAF and USMC F-35 types that have been taking part will soon be providing some feedback for the UK on how to split the forthcoming buy.
https://theaviationist.com/tag/red-flag/
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