F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
Maybe we should look on the bright side. With just one program office instead of three, the DoD saves on overhead.
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Maybe we should look on the bright side. With just one program office instead of three, the DoD saves on overhead.
How long will that last? USAF has bought NAVAIR managed tactical aircraft in the past, but USN has never (that I can think of) bought USAF managed tactical aircraft. Yeah, I know, its a "joint" program office, but lets face it, USAF as the biggest and most committed customer runs that "joint" office. Me thinks USN/NAVAIR will chafe and there will be changes there. And NAVAIR has always managed USMC aircraft, so I doubt there will ever be three program offices. So maybe two program offices in the future? One to manage the As and the other to manage the Bs and Cs? And if that happens it will be interesting to see how FMS is handled, seeing as some FMS customers have As and some Bs.
I cannot actually post my sentiments. Suffice to say that at long last, the Navy did end up with the T-6B.
How long will that last? USAF has bought NAVAIR managed tactical aircraft in the past, but USN has never (that I can think of) bought USAF managed tactical aircraft.
A bit player, and only for a relatively short while, F-16N.
Still out there today, the F-5.
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The F-35 isn't going to get binned, haven't you figured that out yet?
The total number the RAF/FAA will eventually end up with, now that's another matter entirely...
-RP
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The pedant in me requires that I take up the challenge...
A bit player, and only for a relatively short while, F-16N.
Still out there today, the F-5.
A bit player, and only for a relatively short while, F-16N.
Still out there today, the F-5.
And the pedant in me requires me to say that neither were USN operational aircraft. Only a handful were acquired by USN to provide dissimilar adversary training. But USN did indeed acquire them and they were indeed tactical aircraft.
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My only comment is that the Joint Program Office that we had to deal with during T-6 Texan II implementation was ... 
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And to be super pedant, the C-130 is considered by many to be a "tactical" aircraft. At least a tactical airlifter
Yes I know you meant tactical jets, and are talking about "managed". Indeed there are few examples of USN Navy buying USAF aircraft. Perhaps the FJ-2 Fury is the closest (and only) Air Force jet fighter making the transition to a US Navy carrier capable jet fighter, as it was pretty much a navalized F-86E. Not to be confused with the early straight wing Fury which was Navy from the drawing board.
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And to be super pedant, the C-130 is considered by many to be a "tactical" aircraft. At least a tactical airlifter 
Yes I know you meant tactical jets, and are talking about "managed". Indeed there are few examples of USN Navy buying USAF aircraft.
Perhaps the FJ-2 Fury is the closest (and only) Air Force jet fighter making the transition to a US Navy carrier capable jet fighter, as it was pretty much a navalized F-86E. Not to be confused with the early straight wing Fury which was Navy from the drawing board.
Yes I know you meant tactical jets, and are talking about "managed". Indeed there are few examples of USN Navy buying USAF aircraft. Perhaps the FJ-2 Fury is the closest (and only) Air Force jet fighter making the transition to a US Navy carrier capable jet fighter, as it was pretty much a navalized F-86E. Not to be confused with the early straight wing Fury which was Navy from the drawing board.
And perhaps the FJ experience is where the F-35 is headed. The FJ started out as a USAF airplane that Navair completely took over and that Navair changed extensively relative to the F-86. By the time Navair was done with it, the "Navy Sabre" had almost nothing in common with the USAF Sabre and flew a completely different mission than USAF Sabres. The only similarity was the general shape/configuration.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Live feed for the arrival of Royal Netherlands Air Force F-35s at Leeuwarden.
According to the aviation enthusiast forums the F-35s will depart Patuxent River around 1100 BST and arrive at Leeuwarden around 1900 BST.
According to the aviation enthusiast forums the F-35s will depart Patuxent River around 1100 BST and arrive at Leeuwarden around 1900 BST.
Weather kind of cruddy around Pax River this morning.
Stops en-route?
Also, unrelated, it looks like a RAF Voyager is at pax River for refueling trials with the F-35B.
http://www.sldinfo.com/rafs-airbus-t...ith-the-f-35b/
Stops en-route?
Also, unrelated, it looks like a RAF Voyager is at pax River for refueling trials with the F-35B.
http://www.sldinfo.com/rafs-airbus-t...ith-the-f-35b/
Last edited by sandiego89; 23rd May 2016 at 13:00.
Sandiego89 wrote
Apparently direct flight supported by KDC-10. Reported as running behind schedule on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/Rotorfocus/statu...69416437682177
Stops en-route?
First eastbound transatlantic crossing by #F35 running behind schedule, due to land at @VlbLeeuwarden around 20.45..
This video is very long and uneventful so don't watch more than a couple of seconds of it. It seems like a painful process if this has to be done to a large deck area.
Last edited by t43562; 23rd May 2016 at 16:45. Reason: clarify
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
U.K. Planning Four Front-Line F-35 Squadrons | Defense content from Aviation Week
LONDON—The U.K. is planning to build a future force of four front-line F-35 squadrons, now that the country has committed to a fleet of 138 aircraft.
The U.K. will build a front-line fleet of 48 aircraft, 12 per squadron. A fifth unit, also with 12 aircraft, will be formed as an operational conversion unit (OCU), Air Cmdr. Harvey Smyth, the commander of the U.K.’s Lightning Force, told reporters on the sidelines of an F-35 training conference here May 19. An additional three aircraft will serve with 17 Sqn, an operational test and evaluation unit which will be based at Edwards AFB, California. This means the U.K. will have an operational fleet of around 63 aircraft, less than half of the total number of F-35s that the U.K. has agreed to purchase under last year’s Strategic Defense and Security Review. But Smyth pointed out that the total number would cover attrition replacements and the so-called sustainment fleet, which is defined as additional aircraft required to sustain the fleet to its out-of-service date as well as to cover maintenance. Other U.K. combat aircraft also have large sustainment fleets.
The U.K. is in the process of establishing its first front-line unit, 617 Sqn., which will be stood up at MCAS Beaufort, South Carolina in January 2018. The squadron will move to the U.K. that summer and achieve an interim operating capability on land by that year’s end. “Once the squadron is formed up, they have six months to get things squared away before starting a transition back to the U.K. starting in June of 2018,” Smyth told delegates.
Smyth said the U.K. does not plan to disperse its F-35s to other bases. All F-35 operations will be concentrated at RAF Marham, Norfolk, currently the U.K.’s main Panavia Tornado operating base. Over the coming years Marham’s infrastructure will undergo an about £500 million renovation. It will include the construction of an integrated training center and maintenance facilities, as well as improvements to runways, taxiways and the construction of three hover pads. U.K. operations will be conducted from hardened aircraft shelters (HAS), each of which can house two aircraft. Two HAS sites at Marham with multiple shelters will eventually each house two squadrons.
The OCU unit, which has not been given a squadron number, will begin training in the U.K. in the third quarter of 2019. The second front-line squadron, 809 Naval Air Squadron, will not form until April 2023. The F-35s will form the backbone of the U.K.’s carrier strike capability, using the two new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. So the Lightning Force will also have to begin preparing to go to sea. First sea trials with F-35s operating from the ship are planned for late 2018 off the U.S. East Coast. A maritime initial operating capability at sea is expected in late 2020.
Smyth told delegates the Lightning Force would face some challenges training in U.K. airspace. The U.K.’s increasingly crowded skies means that performing large-scale exercises with multiple flights would likely have to be done overseas or in a synthetic environment. Overseas options include the Red Flag exercises in Nevada or Alaska or Maple Flag at Cold Lake in Canada. Australia is also considering conducting exercises in its extensive Woomera ranges, where the U.K. tested its Taranis unmanned combat air vehicle demonstrator.
“In the good old days … we could put 40-50-60 aircraft into Scotland and run a pretty good joined up exercise and everyone would have their own piece of airspace and we’d get lots of good training out of it,” Smyth told delegates. “I can pretty much take up that airspace with an F-35 four-ship, so when we start talking about putting multiple four-ships out of Marham or Lakenheath, the U.K. simply isn’t big enough. If the U.K. itself was a range, we would struggle,” Smyth said.
Training was also handicapped by the possibility of adversaries listening to electronic emissions. “Our Typhoon force is already strongly handcuffed” because of “collectors sitting in the North Sea. We are keen not to give away our crown jewels,” Smyth added.
LONDON—The U.K. is planning to build a future force of four front-line F-35 squadrons, now that the country has committed to a fleet of 138 aircraft.
The U.K. will build a front-line fleet of 48 aircraft, 12 per squadron. A fifth unit, also with 12 aircraft, will be formed as an operational conversion unit (OCU), Air Cmdr. Harvey Smyth, the commander of the U.K.’s Lightning Force, told reporters on the sidelines of an F-35 training conference here May 19. An additional three aircraft will serve with 17 Sqn, an operational test and evaluation unit which will be based at Edwards AFB, California. This means the U.K. will have an operational fleet of around 63 aircraft, less than half of the total number of F-35s that the U.K. has agreed to purchase under last year’s Strategic Defense and Security Review. But Smyth pointed out that the total number would cover attrition replacements and the so-called sustainment fleet, which is defined as additional aircraft required to sustain the fleet to its out-of-service date as well as to cover maintenance. Other U.K. combat aircraft also have large sustainment fleets.
The U.K. is in the process of establishing its first front-line unit, 617 Sqn., which will be stood up at MCAS Beaufort, South Carolina in January 2018. The squadron will move to the U.K. that summer and achieve an interim operating capability on land by that year’s end. “Once the squadron is formed up, they have six months to get things squared away before starting a transition back to the U.K. starting in June of 2018,” Smyth told delegates.
Smyth said the U.K. does not plan to disperse its F-35s to other bases. All F-35 operations will be concentrated at RAF Marham, Norfolk, currently the U.K.’s main Panavia Tornado operating base. Over the coming years Marham’s infrastructure will undergo an about £500 million renovation. It will include the construction of an integrated training center and maintenance facilities, as well as improvements to runways, taxiways and the construction of three hover pads. U.K. operations will be conducted from hardened aircraft shelters (HAS), each of which can house two aircraft. Two HAS sites at Marham with multiple shelters will eventually each house two squadrons.
The OCU unit, which has not been given a squadron number, will begin training in the U.K. in the third quarter of 2019. The second front-line squadron, 809 Naval Air Squadron, will not form until April 2023. The F-35s will form the backbone of the U.K.’s carrier strike capability, using the two new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. So the Lightning Force will also have to begin preparing to go to sea. First sea trials with F-35s operating from the ship are planned for late 2018 off the U.S. East Coast. A maritime initial operating capability at sea is expected in late 2020.
Smyth told delegates the Lightning Force would face some challenges training in U.K. airspace. The U.K.’s increasingly crowded skies means that performing large-scale exercises with multiple flights would likely have to be done overseas or in a synthetic environment. Overseas options include the Red Flag exercises in Nevada or Alaska or Maple Flag at Cold Lake in Canada. Australia is also considering conducting exercises in its extensive Woomera ranges, where the U.K. tested its Taranis unmanned combat air vehicle demonstrator.
“In the good old days … we could put 40-50-60 aircraft into Scotland and run a pretty good joined up exercise and everyone would have their own piece of airspace and we’d get lots of good training out of it,” Smyth told delegates. “I can pretty much take up that airspace with an F-35 four-ship, so when we start talking about putting multiple four-ships out of Marham or Lakenheath, the U.K. simply isn’t big enough. If the U.K. itself was a range, we would struggle,” Smyth said.
Training was also handicapped by the possibility of adversaries listening to electronic emissions. “Our Typhoon force is already strongly handcuffed” because of “collectors sitting in the North Sea. We are keen not to give away our crown jewels,” Smyth added.
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Dutch F-35 landed a wee while ago. That's 3 successful trans-Atlants for the F-35 now. Nothing special but little achievements here and there reflect the efforts of many working hard behind the scenes.