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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 17th Feb 2015, 23:03
  #5701 (permalink)  
 
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Willard Whyte I suspect the 'B will be the first STOVL aircraft to need several '000 feet of runway to get airborne at MTOW.
I get your gist, but I was very impressed when I watched some B's doing STO's at Patuxeunt River (no idea what their weight was). No ski ramp. That lift fan has decidedly more ooompff that your household fan....
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 00:39
  #5702 (permalink)  
O-P
 
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ORAC,


I believe the role of 17 Sqn is to do UK operational testing, isn't that why it's an OEU? As I said in my original post, there are tasks that can be completed without a full clearance.


I agree with you that the fiasco of the F-35s IOC has dropped everything behind schedule...was there a realistic one?


O-P

Last edited by O-P; 18th Feb 2015 at 13:07.
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 01:29
  #5703 (permalink)  
 
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Willard,

I won't give accurate performance data, though it is unclassified, but let's just say it is an impressive distance at MTOW and very impressive at representative training weights.

At Sea Level, in the high 30's deg C, it is significantly less than 1500' at MTOW.

That's still wind (headwind always helps) on a level strip (again, a bit of down-slope always helps).
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 09:37
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I wasn't trying to make a serious point.
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 13:18
  #5705 (permalink)  
 
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I was.

Im sure there are plenty of other people who would appreciate a serious answer.
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 16:43
  #5706 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the Aussies are preparing for the case where someone hits the runway in the middle - those Russian warships for example off Queensland ..............
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 17:25
  #5707 (permalink)  

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MSOCS

Im sure there are plenty of other people who would appreciate a serious answer.
True O King.

But this is PPRuNe amd children must play.
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 18:57
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And the pompous must pronounce.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 13:43
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If it's unclass, can you point us to an open source?

AFAIK, no F-35B has flown at MTOW (61500 lb) yet - hard to get there without external 2k bombs or tanks. Is the <1500 ft normal or MTOW?

And let's not forget that there's a jet that is designed for 800 meters without all the added ironmongery. And operationally speaking, how much use is a 1500-foot runway capability if you have to bring in the fuel by C-130 because your biggest helicopter carries two sorties' worth for 110 miles?

We're not working out of a German cash-and-carry's car park any more...
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 13:53
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A couple of questions..

1. How many flying hours do the stealth coating[s] last until they need "renewing"?

2. Are these coatings required for training and non operational missions?
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 16:00
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Lockheed outlines F-35 cost-cutting production changes - 2/19/2015 - Flight Global

-RP
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 16:02
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Originally Posted by glad rag
1. How many flying hours do the stealth coating[s] last until they need "renewing"?

2. Are these coatings required for training and non operational missions?
What 'stealth coatings'?

-RP
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 22:06
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Originally Posted by LowObservable
And let's not forget that there's a jet that is designed for 800 meters without all the added ironmongery. And operationally speaking, how much use is a 1500-foot runway capability if you have to bring in the fuel by C-130 because your biggest helicopter carries two sorties' worth for 110 miles?

So how do you propose to get fuel to the other jet's 800 metre strip?
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 01:38
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glad rag - there are no "stealth coatings" on the F-35, because they are a permanent part of the skin material of the aircraft.

This has been known, and discussed at PPRuNe, for a number of years.

Perhaps if you acquainted yourself with something other than blind anti-F-35 rants, you would have a better idea of such things.
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 02:23
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GK121 & RP
glad rag - there are no "stealth coatings" on the F-35, because they are a permanent part of the skin material of the aircraft.

This has been known, and discussed at PPRuNe, for a number of years.

Perhaps if you acquainted yourself with something other than blind anti-F-35 rants, you would have a better idea of such things.
From the Flight Global article:
An example is simplifying the way Lockheed creates the diverterless supersonic inlet (DSI) bump inside the aircraft’s two engine intakes. They now are created using a 5h process that requires a robot to build up coats of paint like layers of a pearl.

A new approach involves a second robot that inserts an injection mould into the engine inlet and fills it with a precise amount of stealth coating and allows it to cure. The process does not have to be done in the paint barn and allows work on other parts of the fuselage because it does not produce paint fumes or spray.
Did you not read the article completely or is the article wrong? Just asking
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 02:43
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By including the projected cost savings in the final LRIP 8 contract, Lockheed assumes responsibility if the cost effectiveness of those production changes falls short. If a project is expected to save $10,000 per aircraft but yields only a $5,000 per-jet savings, Lockheed must honor the contract and sell each F-35 at a lower price, she says.
From the same flight global article, is this classed as an "inconvenient truth" as well?
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 03:17
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Green Knight

You are partly correct - much of the F-35's structure is made of RAM

But on top of that there is also 'special' paint with additives, panel gap sealants and tapes, and other post-production RAM coatings that greatly enhance the VLO properties of the jet, and these are required to be attended to after most missions.
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 07:29
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I expect GK121's apology will be along shortly when america wakes up....

Last edited by Biggus; 21st Feb 2015 at 08:14.
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Old 20th Feb 2015, 23:01
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BBC News - £300m for RAF Marham fighter maintenance hub

So, given that Turkey is also supposedly going to be a major F-35 maintenance hub, how will this work? Will the respective hubs have to bid for maintenance work among european operators of the F-35? Or will the work be divided equally between the hubs maybe?

-RP
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Old 21st Feb 2015, 05:46
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The work will be divided according to strategic leverage. The Italians, for instance, have to be kept sweet because several dozen of their political parties favor big cutbacks to JSF.

However, the UK is out of a lot of the bidding because all its aircraft are Bs, which are different in many ways from A-models.
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