Israel asks for 20 F35's
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Israel asks for 20 F35's
It's reported on key.aero
that Israel has asked to purchase 20 F35's (subject to congress approval) .
"August 19: Israeli newspaper Haaretz.com reports that the Israeli government has given approval for 20 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to be purchased from the US at a cost of “around $2.75 billion” (€2.1 billion).
The Israel Air & Space Force (IASF) had wanted 75 aircraft but the reduced number could be due to US blocking Israel’s demands that home-made systems be installed for electronic warfare and communications. The report says that the US has agreed that if Israel buys more F-35s from later production runs, it may allow for integration of Israeli-made systems.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak said "The F-35 is the fighter of the future that will allow Israel to maintain its aerial superiority and its technological advantage in the region." The deal has yet to be approved by the US Congress."
that Israel has asked to purchase 20 F35's (subject to congress approval) .
"August 19: Israeli newspaper Haaretz.com reports that the Israeli government has given approval for 20 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to be purchased from the US at a cost of “around $2.75 billion” (€2.1 billion).
The Israel Air & Space Force (IASF) had wanted 75 aircraft but the reduced number could be due to US blocking Israel’s demands that home-made systems be installed for electronic warfare and communications. The report says that the US has agreed that if Israel buys more F-35s from later production runs, it may allow for integration of Israeli-made systems.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak said "The F-35 is the fighter of the future that will allow Israel to maintain its aerial superiority and its technological advantage in the region." The deal has yet to be approved by the US Congress."
Hmm.
They gonna pay cash, or will those 20 be a grant/loan never paid back?
This US taxpayer would like to know.
They gonna pay cash, or will those 20 be a grant/loan never paid back?
This US taxpayer would like to know.
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Maybe best to think of it as 'extensive field testing' - if Israel has them, they'll use them sooner rather than later; at least the military would relatively soon find out if the theory works...
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Double Zero: Maybe best to think of it as 'extensive field testing' - if Israel has them, they'll use them sooner rather than later; at least the military would relatively soon find out if the theory works...
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F-35
Cornish Stormrider,
I was rather alluding to such an accident happening, which I must say would let me and millions or more others sleep a little easier !
Of course this 'proof of concept' would be a bit late if things turned out to be a 'disproof' as the mega-bucks will already have been spent.
I'm sure it will be alright if enough money's thrown at it and as long as GT is involved, not sure if he sticks to the 'B'...
I was rather alluding to such an accident happening, which I must say would let me and millions or more others sleep a little easier !
Of course this 'proof of concept' would be a bit late if things turned out to be a 'disproof' as the mega-bucks will already have been spent.
I'm sure it will be alright if enough money's thrown at it and as long as GT is involved, not sure if he sticks to the 'B'...
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If the Israelis used F35s for their 'little trip' to various destinations within Iran, it would provide a nice, face-saving facade of "deniability" for the Saudis (and others in the Muslim Brotherhood) in saying that their air defence radars didn't see the stealth aircraft as they transited through their airspace.
I don't think there'd be too much wailing and gnashing of teeth anywhere in the Arab world (with the notable exception of Hezbollah in South Lebanon) if the Iranians were to suffer a series of mysterious explosions at their widely-scattered nuclear 'research' sites all on the same night.
I don't think there'd be too much wailing and gnashing of teeth anywhere in the Arab world (with the notable exception of Hezbollah in South Lebanon) if the Iranians were to suffer a series of mysterious explosions at their widely-scattered nuclear 'research' sites all on the same night.
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Of course if the Leahy Law was to be applied to Israel ...
That's right, the two politicians who were the addressees of the two most leathal weaponised anthrax letters (within a week of 911) were all for applying said law to Israel up until that incident.
Better not try and block the airplane deal!
That's right, the two politicians who were the addressees of the two most leathal weaponised anthrax letters (within a week of 911) were all for applying said law to Israel up until that incident.
Better not try and block the airplane deal!
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One might have thought the Israeli's would fancy a few secondhand F117A's if possible, as there will be a bit of a wait for F-35.
Or is the F-117 now detectable; that would be a reason for what seems a premature retirement, I know one was shot down in Serbia but that just seemed out of luck at low level against a surprisingly suitable radar -or indeed blind AAA,( though the word was radar guided ) no doubt instructions went out among the bad guy community as to what radar to use...
Of course the B-2 has F-15's alongside ( probably with transponders I would expect ) to mask its' RCS when in public, no doubt the F-35 will do similar.
Or is the F-117 now detectable; that would be a reason for what seems a premature retirement, I know one was shot down in Serbia but that just seemed out of luck at low level against a surprisingly suitable radar -or indeed blind AAA,( though the word was radar guided ) no doubt instructions went out among the bad guy community as to what radar to use...
Of course the B-2 has F-15's alongside ( probably with transponders I would expect ) to mask its' RCS when in public, no doubt the F-35 will do similar.
Double Zero,
Not low level. F-117A Pilot, Lt. Colonel Dale Zelko, describes his shootdown on the following video. He was under canopy for some time. The AAA theory was purely from the stills of the wreckage at the time. Many observers confused the SA-3 fragmentation warhead holes with what they thought were bullet holes. The 250th Air Defence Missile Brigade later confirmed that it was purely SA-3s that were used in the shootdown.
At 07:09 you can hear the last position described as 'point after target'. The F-117 was on egress when shot down. Purely assumption on my part but leads to the theory that the F-117 was detected when its weapons bay doors were open.
Commander of the SA-3 battery, Lt. Col. Zoltan Dani, has given a number of interviews of the years. A summary of the main parts are contained on the following wiki entry.
Zoltán Dani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'In the evening Dani's P-18 long-distance radar set malfunctioned at 19:05, almost the same time when four F-117s prepared for take-off from Aviano air base to attack targets in Belgrade. The repaired P-18 radar returned to air by 19:50 and started to emit at the specially modified lower frequency. Lt. Col. Dale Zelko's plane (tail number 82-0806) and three other F-117 flying northbound were acquired at 20:40 local time and so the SA-3 battery's fire control radar went on air to provide a riding beam for V-601P missile launches. The UNV radar emitted at high frequency for 2 x 20 seconds, but it was unable to obtain a lock on the targets.
Lt. Col. Dani then ordered a third illumination round, against his own rulebook, but knowing that NATO lacked immediate counterstrike capability on the particular occasion. Lock was obtained and at a distance of 13 km and an altitude of 8 km. Two SA-3 missiles were launched in short succession, with one obtaining a proximity fuse hit, as notified by an automatic radio pinger burst. The F-117 was structurally disabled by the sudden minus 6G negative load and stall-crashed in inverted position in an agricultural field, near the village of Budjanovci. The pilot ejected successfully and was rescued later on by NATO CSAR helicopters. The F-117's large kite-shaped titanium engine outlet heatshield is still kept by Dani in his garage.'
Lt Col Zoltan Dani features in the following documentary. Unfortunately not in English but contains video footage of the wreckage and the F-117 part that Lt Col Dani keeps in his garage (Part 4).
Links to the following parts of the documentary.
YouTube - Zoltan Dani Heroj 2/4
YouTube - Zoltan Dani Heroj 3/4
YouTube - Zlotan Dani Heroj 4/4
The F-22s that visited the UK recently carried transponders. If required I would say that the F-35 would do likewise. See under fuselage pod on following RIAT image.
Photos: Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
TJ
Not low level. F-117A Pilot, Lt. Colonel Dale Zelko, describes his shootdown on the following video. He was under canopy for some time. The AAA theory was purely from the stills of the wreckage at the time. Many observers confused the SA-3 fragmentation warhead holes with what they thought were bullet holes. The 250th Air Defence Missile Brigade later confirmed that it was purely SA-3s that were used in the shootdown.
At 07:09 you can hear the last position described as 'point after target'. The F-117 was on egress when shot down. Purely assumption on my part but leads to the theory that the F-117 was detected when its weapons bay doors were open.
Commander of the SA-3 battery, Lt. Col. Zoltan Dani, has given a number of interviews of the years. A summary of the main parts are contained on the following wiki entry.
Zoltán Dani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'In the evening Dani's P-18 long-distance radar set malfunctioned at 19:05, almost the same time when four F-117s prepared for take-off from Aviano air base to attack targets in Belgrade. The repaired P-18 radar returned to air by 19:50 and started to emit at the specially modified lower frequency. Lt. Col. Dale Zelko's plane (tail number 82-0806) and three other F-117 flying northbound were acquired at 20:40 local time and so the SA-3 battery's fire control radar went on air to provide a riding beam for V-601P missile launches. The UNV radar emitted at high frequency for 2 x 20 seconds, but it was unable to obtain a lock on the targets.
Lt. Col. Dani then ordered a third illumination round, against his own rulebook, but knowing that NATO lacked immediate counterstrike capability on the particular occasion. Lock was obtained and at a distance of 13 km and an altitude of 8 km. Two SA-3 missiles were launched in short succession, with one obtaining a proximity fuse hit, as notified by an automatic radio pinger burst. The F-117 was structurally disabled by the sudden minus 6G negative load and stall-crashed in inverted position in an agricultural field, near the village of Budjanovci. The pilot ejected successfully and was rescued later on by NATO CSAR helicopters. The F-117's large kite-shaped titanium engine outlet heatshield is still kept by Dani in his garage.'
Lt Col Zoltan Dani features in the following documentary. Unfortunately not in English but contains video footage of the wreckage and the F-117 part that Lt Col Dani keeps in his garage (Part 4).
Links to the following parts of the documentary.
YouTube - Zoltan Dani Heroj 2/4
YouTube - Zoltan Dani Heroj 3/4
YouTube - Zlotan Dani Heroj 4/4
The F-22s that visited the UK recently carried transponders. If required I would say that the F-35 would do likewise. See under fuselage pod on following RIAT image.
Photos: Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
TJ
The F-22s that visited the UK recently carried transponders. If required I would say that the F-35 would do likewise
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I had to laugh when reading about Israels' decision to purchase the F-35.
It droned on for a bit about who'd finally taken the momentous decision and why, before announcing that the money to pay for the jets would be coming from, wait for it..........US foreign aid to Israel.
So are they 'buying' them, or is it a sort of gift?
It droned on for a bit about who'd finally taken the momentous decision and why, before announcing that the money to pay for the jets would be coming from, wait for it..........US foreign aid to Israel.
So are they 'buying' them, or is it a sort of gift?
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They get the aid money first, then decide what to spend it on.
Much like the UK's aid money to India... how much of that goes to food & housing for the poor, how much to their military expansion, and how much to their space program?
Much like the UK's aid money to India... how much of that goes to food & housing for the poor, how much to their military expansion, and how much to their space program?
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And point out that many of those the US loaned money to in WW2 (and immediately after) never paid it back... and many never tried.
As of the 1980s, Finland was the only one that had paid everything back (aid to rebuild after the "Winter War", etc).
And now the UK has done so... has anyone else?
Whether a nation paid the US back or not has had no effect on our relations with them, its just something that is important to the character of the nation involved.
Kudos to the UK for meeting its obligations when so many haven't bothered.
As of the 1980s, Finland was the only one that had paid everything back (aid to rebuild after the "Winter War", etc).
And now the UK has done so... has anyone else?
Whether a nation paid the US back or not has had no effect on our relations with them, its just something that is important to the character of the nation involved.
Kudos to the UK for meeting its obligations when so many haven't bothered.