Message for Dr Fox
Just to add to procurement debate and some of the costs associated.
MoD URD's are often developed these days with Industry input. Often despite EU rules and regulations in advertising requirements and following procurement rules exceptions are sought by the military in order to speed up the initial gate process by using all sorts of excuses to dispense with competiton and go down a single source route despite advice to the contrary from Commercial officers. Project Managers (from Military) never see out even the early stages of the procurement cycle - many always wishing to make their mark (rightly or wrongly), get promotion or are moved after 2 to 3 years. New people who are brought in as PM's and can/do request and instigate change to that original acquisition and surprise surprise costs can escalate.
What the Mod needs is some dedication with individuals experience and a skill set to see a procurement process through more than the conception phase where all members of the team can work together to help get the best for tax payers and the delivery of the equipment or service fitting the needs of the end user.
MoD URD's are often developed these days with Industry input. Often despite EU rules and regulations in advertising requirements and following procurement rules exceptions are sought by the military in order to speed up the initial gate process by using all sorts of excuses to dispense with competiton and go down a single source route despite advice to the contrary from Commercial officers. Project Managers (from Military) never see out even the early stages of the procurement cycle - many always wishing to make their mark (rightly or wrongly), get promotion or are moved after 2 to 3 years. New people who are brought in as PM's and can/do request and instigate change to that original acquisition and surprise surprise costs can escalate.
What the Mod needs is some dedication with individuals experience and a skill set to see a procurement process through more than the conception phase where all members of the team can work together to help get the best for tax payers and the delivery of the equipment or service fitting the needs of the end user.
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Tallsar,
Most of us in the real world find that the use of well spaced paragraphs are a huge benefit when trying to advance our particular point of view.
Mostly because they assist people in being able to easily understand what we are trying to say.
Nuff said??
CS
Most of us in the real world find that the use of well spaced paragraphs are a huge benefit when trying to advance our particular point of view.
Mostly because they assist people in being able to easily understand what we are trying to say.
Nuff said??
CS
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Thanks for your input CS - I fail to see how it takes thing forward - although if you claim to live in a real world, I assume you are nothing to do with MoD and its procurement process?
As for me.....I certainly live in a real world now......and its nothing to do with Abbey Wood anymore...
Cheers
As for me.....I certainly live in a real world now......and its nothing to do with Abbey Wood anymore...
Cheers
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SFFP - I'm no guru but I have held budgets and managed a lot of travel over the years. Perhaps the initial cost of the flight was paid for out of the ex budget. Was the accommodation paid for by the ex? Also, those other aspects of the cost may be split out and managed by someone other than the person managing the flight cost.
I only mention it as very few people have the 'true cost' of anything visible to them. Ironically, pushing the budget-holding down means the holders have a very small remit and are therefore a very parochial view of 'their' budgets.
I only mention it as very few people have the 'true cost' of anything visible to them. Ironically, pushing the budget-holding down means the holders have a very small remit and are therefore a very parochial view of 'their' budgets.
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Procurement!
The platform i work with has an all new all dancing piece of equipment that the IPT wants to buy.(strangely at the same price that the buget has available!!)
Its a wonderful peice of kit apparently the IPT says..(because the platform manufacture says so!) When they asked us what we thought of it, verbal discription only, no pics, no drawings!! We asked if somebody could go and see this fantastic multimillion peice of equipment from a user point of veiw for a day, guess the reply!!..
Sorry there no money for that and because its abroad it can not be justified.
Looking forward to seeing this new kit!!!!
Its a wonderful peice of kit apparently the IPT says..(because the platform manufacture says so!) When they asked us what we thought of it, verbal discription only, no pics, no drawings!! We asked if somebody could go and see this fantastic multimillion peice of equipment from a user point of veiw for a day, guess the reply!!..
Sorry there no money for that and because its abroad it can not be justified.
Looking forward to seeing this new kit!!!!
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"The situation the military currently finds itself in lies squarely on the shoulders of the Officer cadre who for years have made inept decision after inept decision committing millions upon millions on projects that have gone tits up almost from day one."
Sorry, make that another person with a chip on his shoulder then, if thats how things are judged.
It may not lie exclusively on the shoulders of our commissioned bretheren, as has been pointed out, the politicos and the civil service have played their part too - but ultimately, the only ones within the military, in command of the likes of the rest of us, who have the clout, the seniority and the connections to do something about it, even if it is merely offering token resistance, are exclusively military officers.
Its not just the military. Its happened everywhere else too in the public sector. Take a look at the Civvy Police "Services" and most players above B-grade in the civil service for shining example after shining example. And, for that matter in the political world too.
Leadership is a quality that it would seem, has ceased to have any relevance in this modern world.
Sorry, make that another person with a chip on his shoulder then, if thats how things are judged.
It may not lie exclusively on the shoulders of our commissioned bretheren, as has been pointed out, the politicos and the civil service have played their part too - but ultimately, the only ones within the military, in command of the likes of the rest of us, who have the clout, the seniority and the connections to do something about it, even if it is merely offering token resistance, are exclusively military officers.
Its not just the military. Its happened everywhere else too in the public sector. Take a look at the Civvy Police "Services" and most players above B-grade in the civil service for shining example after shining example. And, for that matter in the political world too.
Leadership is a quality that it would seem, has ceased to have any relevance in this modern world.
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I agree with Jabba - despite the fact he is a Fat Knacker support trade 
Jabba, spot on assessment of the (generalising here) woeful financial acumen of the commissioned master race.
A pilot will buy it if there are enough buttons and flashing lights on it.
Industry will LIE to you to get sales as each salesman gets a sales related bonus.
Politicans don't care so long as they get another term with their snout in the trough.
you get shafted 4 ways till sunday
Jabba, spot on assessment of the (generalising here) woeful financial acumen of the commissioned master race.
A pilot will buy it if there are enough buttons and flashing lights on it.
Industry will LIE to you to get sales as each salesman gets a sales related bonus.
Politicans don't care so long as they get another term with their snout in the trough.
you get shafted 4 ways till sunday
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Hey, CS, I'm proud to have been not only a REMF, but a buried hundreds of feet underground, hundreds of miles away from the action REMF to boot. 
Fat Knacker support trade, indeed. We were FAR more important than that!
Fat Knacker support trade, indeed. We were FAR more important than that!
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Google "last Russian invasion of UK"
Try it an see what you get....
This thread sounds like a group of Daily Mail readers worrying about their pensions...you know who you are...!!!
5D2D
This thread sounds like a group of Daily Mail readers worrying about their pensions...you know who you are...!!!
5D2D
