Quality of Uniform
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Quality of Uniform
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the deteriorating quality of uniform items over the last few years? No 2 trousers that are so thin that they last about 6 months - I'm not too sure the chappie in Clothing Stores was joking when he said that they were made in China. Oxford shoes, the soles of which appear to be made of cardboard and, no matter what you do to them, refuse to keep out the water on rainy days (probably from China too - certainly not from Northampton like the old ones). All probably down to the cheapest bid, rather than the best value for money again I suppose. Grumble grumble. 
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Buy cheap; buy twice!
As the RAF will soon discover with some of the accomodation blocks that are no more then portacabins with brick coats on. I know of one that has major flooding due to shower tiles coming away within 6 months of the opening ribbon being cut, and the construction will never recover after the water damage sustained.
Back to clothing; the trousers are so poor in manafacture that keeping them smart is nigh on impossible due to creasing. Not the corporate image that the hierarchy would like, yet cost cutting is yet again taking precidence over all other matters and it will get worse.
.....and combined catering, if not Messing must be looming up large by now. "Tally Ho; lets get the Hun in the sun" is no more!
Yet there are always exceptions to the rule. The catering at BZN is quite possibly the best in the air force and the New Northolt has got to be seen to be believed. The domestic (workplace) accomodation there is awesome.
As the RAF will soon discover with some of the accomodation blocks that are no more then portacabins with brick coats on. I know of one that has major flooding due to shower tiles coming away within 6 months of the opening ribbon being cut, and the construction will never recover after the water damage sustained.
Back to clothing; the trousers are so poor in manafacture that keeping them smart is nigh on impossible due to creasing. Not the corporate image that the hierarchy would like, yet cost cutting is yet again taking precidence over all other matters and it will get worse.
.....and combined catering, if not Messing must be looming up large by now. "Tally Ho; lets get the Hun in the sun" is no more!
Yet there are always exceptions to the rule. The catering at BZN is quite possibly the best in the air force and the New Northolt has got to be seen to be believed. The domestic (workplace) accomodation there is awesome.
It is made in China......well some of the aircrew kit is. The contract is let with a UK (ish)/EU firm who then sub-let the contract to the Far East. Unfortunately, the QA associated with EU firms etc is not in place and therefore, you get what you pay for!!!!!
One would imagine that it is the same for a great deal of the ground pattern clothing as well! The reason being is that we (UK/EU) are not able to compete! or have the ability to manufacture to the same scale!
However, if your (Ground Pattern) kit fails/does not fit/etc then the QMs have a 'Threads' feedback system, which should be used to highlight sub-standard clothing. For aircrew then the SE Fitts should be approached and complete an engineering form (F760?) as the kit is serviced it comes under different rules. Don't be fobbed off on either count as the only way the IPT (Defence Clothing or Aircrew Escape & Survival) can address the issues is with evidence.
If you can't be BOTHERED (aircrew) to submit any form of reply, then speak with the SERE O who's responsible for collating issues with kit!!
Or stop bitching
One would imagine that it is the same for a great deal of the ground pattern clothing as well! The reason being is that we (UK/EU) are not able to compete! or have the ability to manufacture to the same scale!
However, if your (Ground Pattern) kit fails/does not fit/etc then the QMs have a 'Threads' feedback system, which should be used to highlight sub-standard clothing. For aircrew then the SE Fitts should be approached and complete an engineering form (F760?) as the kit is serviced it comes under different rules. Don't be fobbed off on either count as the only way the IPT (Defence Clothing or Aircrew Escape & Survival) can address the issues is with evidence.
If you can't be BOTHERED (aircrew) to submit any form of reply, then speak with the SERE O who's responsible for collating issues with kit!!
Or stop bitching
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Do you think filling out a form in the present and near future climate is going to achieve anything? No money now and less for the future so I'm guessing it's going to be the best value (cheapest bid) for money we can wring out of any budget...
I just don't feel that me filling out a form is going to make anyone sit up and say, 'By jove he's right...This stuff isn't the best money can buy...Lets leap out of our seats and procure the very best product available!'...
I just don't feel that me filling out a form is going to make anyone sit up and say, 'By jove he's right...This stuff isn't the best money can buy...Lets leap out of our seats and procure the very best product available!'...
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Do you think filling out a form in the present and near future climate is going to achieve anything?
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Its not just uniform. Y-fronts lasted so long in the late 60's that they were an embarrasment.
By the late-70's they fell apart after a couple of detachments.
By the late-70's they fell apart after a couple of detachments.
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Moss Bros, actually, do a very fine job.
You get what you pay for.
Any company winning a Government contract should have to prove their product, then NOT be allowed to sub-contract - especially overseas!
You get what you pay for.
Any company winning a Government contract should have to prove their product, then NOT be allowed to sub-contract - especially overseas!
It's not just uniform. Y-fronts lasted so long in the late '60s that they were an embarrassment.
By the late-'70s they fell apart after a couple of detachments.
By the late-'70s they fell apart after a couple of detachments.
Of course this was long before the obscenity of the 'fitness test' and other sundry embuggerances to aircrew quality of life...
But the true clothing mystery is why one's RAFC-tailored No.1 HD was so prone to shrinking whilst sitting quietly in one's wardrobe....
Managed to get mine to last 30 years though....
Redders, remember our first Cranwellian uniforms in 1968? I'm sure that the wonderfully comfortable hairy blue horsehair would have survived Ivan's thermonuclear nasties, had the Cold War ever turned hot. So comfortable, particularly when worn with issue 'shreddies'....
Does anyone in the RAF still wear 'blues', apart from PONTIs? I thought that it was all desert DPs or grobags these days?.
Shhh Beags - you'll probably see the Serco Marshalls win a contract for uniform policing if you point that out... Now, where is my car parked illegally?
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Don't whinge about something you know nothing of and can't be bothered to do the right thing about.
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it would feel nit-picky to go into writing about it
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Oh well then - that's OK then. I'll get the Clothing Committee to get their ESP re-tuned to work out your future thoughts on the matter
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Keeping up appearances
Some things dont change then - In our day we were issued with denim
uniforms that appeared to have been discarded by vagrants - Washed out ragged, tattered, torn threadbare that had served countless recruits earlier.
Some things dont change then - In our day we were issued with denim
uniforms that appeared to have been discarded by vagrants - Washed out ragged, tattered, torn threadbare that had served countless recruits earlier.
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I for one would wear trousers from Primark and shirts from Tesco to allow the ever-decreasing budget to focus it's effort on the things that really matter; aircraft, armour, bullets and quality of life (home and abroad).
However, despite my best efforts to turn my half-empty glass into a half-full one, I am quite sure that no matter how much moaning, be it on an official basis through forms and the like, or here on this forum, that nothing will change until the money starts rolling in from the Treasury.
Until the day comes that the quality of blues determines whether I carry out my tasks effectively or not, I agree with Shack37; wear it with pride. Thousands want to, few succeed.
However, despite my best efforts to turn my half-empty glass into a half-full one, I am quite sure that no matter how much moaning, be it on an official basis through forms and the like, or here on this forum, that nothing will change until the money starts rolling in from the Treasury.
Until the day comes that the quality of blues determines whether I carry out my tasks effectively or not, I agree with Shack37; wear it with pride. Thousands want to, few succeed.
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The sad thing is I bet if MOD approached Primark or Tesco, they'd end up with a far better product at a far lower price!!
If it makes you feel any better, the uniforms outside are $hit quality too!
And you feel nowhere near as much pride in wearing it.
But then I do work for Asda...
If it makes you feel any better, the uniforms outside are $hit quality too!
And you feel nowhere near as much pride in wearing it.
But then I do work for Asda...
If you have access to the Intranet then look on the RAF site for "clothing" and you will find the minutes of the last Clothing Committee meeting in Jan 10. It mentions that the next meeting is this month at RAF Benson and there are reps from HQ 1Gp and 2Gp (Sqn Ldr and Wg Cdr respectively). The minutes mention the following:
1. Introduction of Multi Terrain Pattern CS95 for all starting with those goingto Afg from Apr 10.
2. Renewed contract awarded for heavier weight No 2 trousers (old stocks will be used first).
3. Renewed contract to revert back to smooth knit jersey with v neck - with non-bobble weave (old stock to be used first).
4. Research into heavier weight No 2 shirts for next contract renewal.
5. Approval to wear brevets and All Arms Cdo Cse daggers on RAF CS95 and DCC.
6. Approval to wear RAF pattern slate blue leather jacket with No 2s vice GPJ at personal expense for officers and SNCOs.
7. Improvements to female shirts (more sizes) and maternity wear.
8. Study into individual issue of RAF Stable Belt to all and modification of No 2 trouser belt loops to fit (planned delivery 2012).
9. Study into providing better outerwear and fatigues for those working outside in cold, wet or windy environments.
10. Investigate changing the plastic blue name badges to include a Union Flag, name and brevet (non brevet wearers to get RAF logo).
Of note in the minutes was the lack of "Threads" reports to discuss - which proves the point that they don't get much feedback.
So things are being done it would appear, without spending money we don't have, by changing items at contract renewal and also through taking note of the "Threads" system and Gp HQ reps.
LJ
1. Introduction of Multi Terrain Pattern CS95 for all starting with those goingto Afg from Apr 10.
2. Renewed contract awarded for heavier weight No 2 trousers (old stocks will be used first).
3. Renewed contract to revert back to smooth knit jersey with v neck - with non-bobble weave (old stock to be used first).
4. Research into heavier weight No 2 shirts for next contract renewal.
5. Approval to wear brevets and All Arms Cdo Cse daggers on RAF CS95 and DCC.
6. Approval to wear RAF pattern slate blue leather jacket with No 2s vice GPJ at personal expense for officers and SNCOs.
7. Improvements to female shirts (more sizes) and maternity wear.
8. Study into individual issue of RAF Stable Belt to all and modification of No 2 trouser belt loops to fit (planned delivery 2012).
9. Study into providing better outerwear and fatigues for those working outside in cold, wet or windy environments.
10. Investigate changing the plastic blue name badges to include a Union Flag, name and brevet (non brevet wearers to get RAF logo).
Of note in the minutes was the lack of "Threads" reports to discuss - which proves the point that they don't get much feedback.
So things are being done it would appear, without spending money we don't have, by changing items at contract renewal and also through taking note of the "Threads" system and Gp HQ reps.
LJ
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LJ,
the first point on your minutes fails to clarify that MTP will only be issued to FP troops or infantiers. Us ground trades RAF, irrespective of role, continue to be issued standard desert DPM.
the first point on your minutes fails to clarify that MTP will only be issued to FP troops or infantiers. Us ground trades RAF, irrespective of role, continue to be issued standard desert DPM.
Grabbers
My understanding is also, and rightly so, that MTP will go to those that need it first and then will roll out to all in due course. DCC doesn't work too well in the green zone and if you wear CS95 and go through a river it goes almost black -so MTP will go to those that need it first (infanteers, FP, FAC/JTACs, EOD teams, etc...)
Does anyone know if the flame resistant CS95 for aircrew is going MTP?
LJ
My understanding is also, and rightly so, that MTP will go to those that need it first and then will roll out to all in due course. DCC doesn't work too well in the green zone and if you wear CS95 and go through a river it goes almost black -so MTP will go to those that need it first (infanteers, FP, FAC/JTACs, EOD teams, etc...)
Does anyone know if the flame resistant CS95 for aircrew is going MTP?
LJ