The Union Flag
Cool Mod
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Union Flag
Just lately I have seen quite a number of flags being flown upside down.
Its a trend that seems to be growing. Is it that our schools or whoever, is not bothering to teach people how to fly the flag?
I even saw one on our local British Legion hall upside down. I put a little note in the door saying that it was very 'distressing' to see such a thing!
It was righted the same day.
Its a trend that seems to be growing. Is it that our schools or whoever, is not bothering to teach people how to fly the flag?
I even saw one on our local British Legion hall upside down. I put a little note in the door saying that it was very 'distressing' to see such a thing!
It was righted the same day.
Look at the upper quadrant against the pole (at the hoist?). The upper white bit should be fat not thin.
Now remind me: toggle or loop on top?
CG
Now remind me: toggle or loop on top?
CG
For those of us that can't remember which is the right way up!!??
Try this for size
Ships Nostalgia
And yes, I do know when it's a jack rather than a flag! Well, I should .....
Jack
Try this for size
Ships Nostalgia
And yes, I do know when it's a jack rather than a flag! Well, I should .....
Jack
Ah memories, memories! Your post takes me back to Ascension Island, Pop, in the early 70's. The airfield even then was US administered, with Pan-Am Security Officers. Their job, inter alia, was to raise and lower the US and UK National Flags, morning and evening respectively. Our job, inter alia, was to seek them out immediately after breakfast and complain that the Union Flag had been raised upside down. It was not necessary to have visually confirmed that beforehand and indeed would have been pointless, none of us knowing which way was up anyway. Other than the Nav of course, who tiresomely knew everything about everything, as was common with his ilk!
Cool Mod
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The flag should be displayed in every schoolroom like it is in the U.S. of A. People would then know from an early age. problem is, every "right on" council would want to display every other country's flags as a mark of equality.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And:
How high is a flag at "half mast"?
And the correct way to put a flag at half-mast is to raise the flag to the top then lower it exactly by the depth of the flag, ie a flag 5 feet x 3 feet would be lowered exactly 3 feet.
And the easy way to have the flag right way up is to buy a proper flag with a toggle close at the top and on a 2 foot tail on the bottom. It is the cheap Chinese copies that don't have proper toggles and tails that cause the problem.
How high is a flag at "half mast"?
It is not half way up the flag pole, as you might have expected, but the height of the flag from the top of the pole.
The practice of half-masting a flag arose to serve cases of the death of a sailor on the ship. The flag was half-masted to inform other vessels that the crew were mourning their shipmate, and hence a polite request that they not be disturbed. After the committal, the flag was raised to full staff, to indicate that the mourning period was ended.
The practice of half-masting a flag arose to serve cases of the death of a sailor on the ship. The flag was half-masted to inform other vessels that the crew were mourning their shipmate, and hence a polite request that they not be disturbed. After the committal, the flag was raised to full staff, to indicate that the mourning period was ended.
And the easy way to have the flag right way up is to buy a proper flag with a toggle close at the top and on a 2 foot tail on the bottom. It is the cheap Chinese copies that don't have proper toggles and tails that cause the problem.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Union Jack is NEVER flown upside down.
If the Union Flag is flown on a ship it is a Jack. It is illegal to fly a Union Flag on a civilian vessel, so the only place you'll find a Union Jack is on a British warship and thus, by definition, it wouldn't be possible for such a dreadful thing to happen. (It might be hoisted part of the way upside down but someone's guts would be getting fashioned into garters long before it had a chance to reach the top of the jackstaff.
The Union Flag is also the rank flag of an Admiral of the Fleet and would be flown on any ship in which the Admiral of the Fleet was present. It could then be flown upside down.
Go on. I double-dog dare you!
If the Union Flag is flown on a ship it is a Jack. It is illegal to fly a Union Flag on a civilian vessel, so the only place you'll find a Union Jack is on a British warship and thus, by definition, it wouldn't be possible for such a dreadful thing to happen. (It might be hoisted part of the way upside down but someone's guts would be getting fashioned into garters long before it had a chance to reach the top of the jackstaff.
The Union Flag is also the rank flag of an Admiral of the Fleet and would be flown on any ship in which the Admiral of the Fleet was present. It could then be flown upside down.
Go on. I double-dog dare you!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was always taught by my Grandad (RIP) (RN during WW2) that the Union Jack could be flown upside down to indicate a ship in distress, i.e. taken over by pirates etc.
Is this a salty sea dog story or a very old waaah?
h
Is this a salty sea dog story or a very old waaah?
h
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Blacksheep,
I fear you may be incorrect.
First the Union Jack may be flown upside down but if you ensure the tail is at the bottom you would ensure that you do not make that error.
Then your assertion that it is only flown on HM Warships is also incorrect.
The company for whom my father worker for many a year always flew the Pilot Jack at the bow. Now, with many ostensibly British vessels flagged in Bermuda this is probably rare. P&O fly their company pennant at there.
If you look at the following link: and scroll to the City of Ottawa, which is dressed overall, you will see she is flying the Jack at the bow.
Google Image Result for http://www.rhiw.com/y_mor/ships_photos_03/ellerman_line/city_of_new_york.jpg
I fear you may be incorrect.
First the Union Jack may be flown upside down but if you ensure the tail is at the bottom you would ensure that you do not make that error.
Then your assertion that it is only flown on HM Warships is also incorrect.
The company for whom my father worker for many a year always flew the Pilot Jack at the bow. Now, with many ostensibly British vessels flagged in Bermuda this is probably rare. P&O fly their company pennant at there.
If you look at the following link: and scroll to the City of Ottawa, which is dressed overall, you will see she is flying the Jack at the bow.
Google Image Result for http://www.rhiw.com/y_mor/ships_photos_03/ellerman_line/city_of_new_york.jpg
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 27th May 2010 at 12:10.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Yearning for sun and sea
Age: 82
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pontius, are you sure that the Jack flown on the City of Ottawa is not the Union Jack with a white border. I cant remember what that particular flag is called
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Sad to say but one of my pet hates, thick white band to the top left side if on an aircraft on the port side, the stb has the thin to the top on the left as it is done as it would be flying in the wind, so the thick white band at the top would be on the right side of the flag as the aircraft nose is into wind so to speak....
The French Grand Prix a couple of years ago the French had positioned the flag logos with the drivers name above the pits showing them to be in distress, (upside down) then again it was the season of spygate.
Looking at an Electra hulk at coventry the other day it too had then in distress, but as it was being robbed for spares and in effect its flying days had ended, perhaps it was apt.
Just re read that.....blimey I need to get out more
The French Grand Prix a couple of years ago the French had positioned the flag logos with the drivers name above the pits showing them to be in distress, (upside down) then again it was the season of spygate.
Looking at an Electra hulk at coventry the other day it too had then in distress, but as it was being robbed for spares and in effect its flying days had ended, perhaps it was apt.
Just re read that.....blimey I need to get out more
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 70
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pisses me off to see the SA Flag upside down too .....
http://cdn.24.com/files/Cms/General/...693648a9cf.jpg
Red at the top ....
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/14...7a5500cbae.jpg
http://cdn.24.com/files/Cms/General/...693648a9cf.jpg
Red at the top ....
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/14...7a5500cbae.jpg
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Gannet, it is indeed the one with a white border which I believe is the Union Jack as opposed to one with no border which us the Union Flag.
and
and
Pilot Jack
The Union Jack with a white border.The flag in a white border occasionally seen on merchant ships was sometimes referred to as the Pilot Jack. It can be traced back to 1823 when it was created as a signal flag, never intended as a civil jack. A book issued to British consuls in 1855 states that the white bordered Union Flag is to be hoisted for a pilot. Although there was some ambiguity regarding the legality of it being flown for any other purpose on civilian vessels, its use as an ensign or jack was established well in advance of the 1864 Act that designated the Red Ensign for merchant shipping. In 1970 the white-bordered Union Flag ceased to be the signal for a pilot, but references to it as national colours were not removed from the current Merchant Shipping Act and it was legally interpreted as a flag that could be flown on a merchant ship, as a jack if desired. This status was confirmed by the Merchant Shipping (Registration, etc.) Act 1993 and the consolidating Merchant Shipping Act 1995 which prohibits the use of any distinctive national colours or those used or resembling flags or pendants on Her Majesty's Ships, except the Red Ensign, the Union Flag with a white border, and some other exceptions permitted elsewhere in the Acts.
The Union Jack with a white border.The flag in a white border occasionally seen on merchant ships was sometimes referred to as the Pilot Jack. It can be traced back to 1823 when it was created as a signal flag, never intended as a civil jack. A book issued to British consuls in 1855 states that the white bordered Union Flag is to be hoisted for a pilot. Although there was some ambiguity regarding the legality of it being flown for any other purpose on civilian vessels, its use as an ensign or jack was established well in advance of the 1864 Act that designated the Red Ensign for merchant shipping. In 1970 the white-bordered Union Flag ceased to be the signal for a pilot, but references to it as national colours were not removed from the current Merchant Shipping Act and it was legally interpreted as a flag that could be flown on a merchant ship, as a jack if desired. This status was confirmed by the Merchant Shipping (Registration, etc.) Act 1993 and the consolidating Merchant Shipping Act 1995 which prohibits the use of any distinctive national colours or those used or resembling flags or pendants on Her Majesty's Ships, except the Red Ensign, the Union Flag with a white border, and some other exceptions permitted elsewhere in the Acts.
Cool Mod
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nut Loose! I am surprised at you.
On my aeroplanes we had the flag on both sides and EACH side has the wide band at the top. Your way would be flying backwards! Think of it this way. When you paint the flag think of the nose being the staff with the wide band at the top - walk to the other side of the staff and it will still be wide white band at the top - you are thinking TWO flags when there is only one. Or another way - left or right on the staff they are the same.
You were having a larf - right!
On my aeroplanes we had the flag on both sides and EACH side has the wide band at the top. Your way would be flying backwards! Think of it this way. When you paint the flag think of the nose being the staff with the wide band at the top - walk to the other side of the staff and it will still be wide white band at the top - you are thinking TWO flags when there is only one. Or another way - left or right on the staff they are the same.
You were having a larf - right!