Korea is shaping up to be a big mess...
According to the official North Korean news agency, as of 2 days ago, they consider South Korea's actions so far to be an "undisguised declaration of war". Which is quite serious in my book. It all really depends on what the Chinese do. I suspect this will involve either a watered down condemnation at the UN which China abstains from, or Sanctions which China vetoes. Even then, it depends on what China tells the US it will actually do. A Chinese on North Korea 'back-of-the-bike-sheds kicking' will be acceptable to US/S Korea, in which case we'll hear no more about it.
At times like this I always think back to August 1990, when a gash shag wandered into the bar and said "Iraq has invaded Kuwait", and the QWIP said "so what?"
. 48 hours later QWIP was at 20,000' patrolling the Kuwaiti border
.
At times like this I always think back to August 1990, when a gash shag wandered into the bar and said "Iraq has invaded Kuwait", and the QWIP said "so what?"
. 48 hours later QWIP was at 20,000' patrolling the Kuwaiti border.
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Despite one's knee jerk reaction to such a dreadful act, I've been quite surprised and impressed by the generally measured replies here; ' keep em bottled up & let them implode ' seems favourite, if still distictly dodgy when dealing with a pressure-cooker situation, nukes and a baddie nut who would have been rejected by the James Bond makers as too OTT !
Mind, I don't think I'd fancy paying life insurance on a certain submarine and skipper / crew ( hopefully the skipper as the rest are probably just poor sods ) - if anything were to 'happen' I doubt we'd ever hear about it.
Mind, I don't think I'd fancy paying life insurance on a certain submarine and skipper / crew ( hopefully the skipper as the rest are probably just poor sods ) - if anything were to 'happen' I doubt we'd ever hear about it.
Exactly Double Zero (that a Dick Dastardly reference?), we'll probably hear very little.
First question has to be the one Obama asks - where are the carriers? anyone have a link/info on this? And what's the status of the US forces in Korea/Japan?
First question has to be the one Obama asks - where are the carriers? anyone have a link/info on this? And what's the status of the US forces in Korea/Japan?
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The maritime boundary dispute isn't going to be solved by military force.
The fundamental problem is the unreasonable imposition of the highly unreasonable Northern Limit Line by the UN in 1953. No maritime nation on Earth would accept such a thing.
A reasonable resolution to the problem would be for both sides to accept the normal international agreement of equidistant sovereignty out to a distance of 200 miles.
The Northern Limit Line, shown in green in this sketch, was imposed upon North Korea to humiliate her and to militarily threten her vital seaport of Haeju It was never agreed in the Armistice Agreement. It was like a human sitting in a dog's basket to teach it who's master. That **** only works with nice dogs, not mad dogs. It is utterly pointless to provoke a nasty regime like Pyongyang with something so egregiously unacceptable.
A much more reasonable approach would be to negotiate an equidistant line, shown in amber in this sketch. That could then form the basis for North Korea to live in peace and to fish their own immensely valuable fishing grounds without perceiving an aggressive threat from foreign warships encroaching on the own doorstep.
Threatening to re-fight the old Korean War all over again is deeply stupid. It is a war which neither side can win.
The fundamental problem is the unreasonable imposition of the highly unreasonable Northern Limit Line by the UN in 1953. No maritime nation on Earth would accept such a thing.
A reasonable resolution to the problem would be for both sides to accept the normal international agreement of equidistant sovereignty out to a distance of 200 miles.
The Northern Limit Line, shown in green in this sketch, was imposed upon North Korea to humiliate her and to militarily threten her vital seaport of Haeju It was never agreed in the Armistice Agreement. It was like a human sitting in a dog's basket to teach it who's master. That **** only works with nice dogs, not mad dogs. It is utterly pointless to provoke a nasty regime like Pyongyang with something so egregiously unacceptable.
A much more reasonable approach would be to negotiate an equidistant line, shown in amber in this sketch. That could then form the basis for North Korea to live in peace and to fish their own immensely valuable fishing grounds without perceiving an aggressive threat from foreign warships encroaching on the own doorstep.
Threatening to re-fight the old Korean War all over again is deeply stupid. It is a war which neither side can win.
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Well at least if our navy gets involved and WW III breaks out we've got some of the best long range maritime patrol anti submarine warfare aircraft in the world to sniff out those nasty submarines and find enemy ships and protect our brave matelots.......................what? we haven't??????????????? somebody call Elvington quick it might not be too late, must be the odd stingray lying around here somewhere..............
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I don't believe....
...that OUR military people or South Korea's Military, or, your military people, or any PEOPLE for that matter, are simple fodder targets for any murderous Jackass out there. Unfortunately sometimes you must DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR PEOPLE!
To hell with their "guns", THAT NORTH KOREAN SOB MUST DIE AND HIS LEGACY WIPED FROM THE EARTH!
To hell with their "guns", THAT NORTH KOREAN SOB MUST DIE AND HIS LEGACY WIPED FROM THE EARTH!
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Aimed at spad
Sorry to upset your party, but the losses that SK have had over the year pales into insignificance against the total destruction of Seoul by the conventional entrenched artillery that NK has aligned against it.
Stalemate.
Stalemate.
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And though the sinking of the Cheonan - and may the 46 sailors RIP - was unusually violent, the provocations and tit-for-tat always look bigger at the time than in retrospect.
CSIS in DC has a useful list: http://csis.org/files/publication/10...ovocations.pdf - this is no worse than the shootdown of the EC-121 or the capture of the USS Pueblo. I can't see a punchup unless there's a serious miscalculation by the DPRK - which China will want to ensure won't happen.
And as for Spadhampton's helpful observation:
I trust that you'll be saying this outside the Blue House (Presidential Palace) in Seoul under the sights of said guns sometime imminently?
Hmm, thought not! 
S41
CSIS in DC has a useful list: http://csis.org/files/publication/10...ovocations.pdf - this is no worse than the shootdown of the EC-121 or the capture of the USS Pueblo. I can't see a punchup unless there's a serious miscalculation by the DPRK - which China will want to ensure won't happen.
And as for Spadhampton's helpful observation:
To hell with their "guns", THAT NORTH KOREAN SOB MUST DIE AND HIS LEGACY WIPED FROM THE EARTH!
Hmm, thought not! S41
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Air Power can take out the guns.....
Especially with new deep penetrating weapons. There is no "stalemate" except for China and I say SCREW CHINA TOO if they won't get out of the way. China is an assessory to MURDER! There is nothing holding us back but FEAR and these Jerks capitalize upon FEAR! What are we willing to fight and die for?
Nothing according to some of you.
Nothing according to some of you.
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Are you willing to sacrifice the population of Seoul so you can wipe North Korea from the face of the earth? I doubt the US, UK, Korea, Australia, etc, etc have enough fighters, cruise missles and other weapons to destroy all the artillery pieces the North has aimed at Seoul with chemical warheads. Stalemate is it....
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What are we willing to fight and die for?
Just who is this 'we' anyway
Especially with new deep penetrating weapons. There is no "stalemate" except for China and I say SCREW CHINA TOO if they won't get out of the way. China is an assessory to MURDER! There is nothing holding us back but FEAR and these Jerks capitalize upon FEAR! What are we willing to fight and die for?
Nothing according to some of you.
Nothing according to some of you.
SV
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The North Koreans are relying on everyone in the West seeing how incredibly stupid it would be to go to war over "only" 46 deaths. Sadly, if the rhetoric does crank up a notch or two, "only" 46 deaths are going to seem to be - be - very small chese indeed.
Even more sadly, unless KJI dies of food poisoning, (hopefully very, very soon), and the West (and South Korea) takes the "sensible" course and does whatever it takes to avoid war, the ratchet effect will also click one more notch in KJI's favour.
I fear the extremely unpalatable price will have to be paid one day (by North Koreans and non-North Koreans alike) to sort this mess out. What I don't know is whether that price will be any higher if the day it's paid is delayed.
If there's anyone out there who wants war, he should be in the looney bin. However, at some stage, the West will have to accept it simply can't step back any further. (We've stepped back so many times to North Korean threats that we already look like Spanish policemen in their funny turned-up-at-the-back hats.)
I just wish there was someone out there among our leaders with the wisdom of Solomon, who could make both sides see the stupidity of the constant dick measuring that constitutes international relations today. Sadly, I don't see any such person among the current crop of Western leaders. Far from it in most cases.
As for the UN... God help us if we have to turn there to sort this out.
Even more sadly, unless KJI dies of food poisoning, (hopefully very, very soon), and the West (and South Korea) takes the "sensible" course and does whatever it takes to avoid war, the ratchet effect will also click one more notch in KJI's favour.
I fear the extremely unpalatable price will have to be paid one day (by North Koreans and non-North Koreans alike) to sort this mess out. What I don't know is whether that price will be any higher if the day it's paid is delayed.
If there's anyone out there who wants war, he should be in the looney bin. However, at some stage, the West will have to accept it simply can't step back any further. (We've stepped back so many times to North Korean threats that we already look like Spanish policemen in their funny turned-up-at-the-back hats.)
I just wish there was someone out there among our leaders with the wisdom of Solomon, who could make both sides see the stupidity of the constant dick measuring that constitutes international relations today. Sadly, I don't see any such person among the current crop of Western leaders. Far from it in most cases.
As for the UN... God help us if we have to turn there to sort this out.
Tis a strange time when world economy seems to be imploding and many countries are ratcheting up potential conflicts.
There are no doubt one or two budding dictators or dictators disguised as democrats (errrr its a small d) who may try and take advantage of this given the instability in leadership within the western world.
We are living in interesting time and better start looking for the dogs that are not barking.
There are no doubt one or two budding dictators or dictators disguised as democrats (errrr its a small d) who may try and take advantage of this given the instability in leadership within the western world.
We are living in interesting time and better start looking for the dogs that are not barking.