Icelandic Ash Cloud
And what happens in a fortnight? or a month? or ...?
According to the reports, the last time this volcano let loose (1821?), it went off intermittently for nearly two years.
So what happens if London, Paris, Brussels, etc., etc. are still closed in a fortnight? or a month? or three months? You guys could probably fly to Madrid or someplace and get home by train, but I have a colleague visiting her daughter in the UK, she was due to fly out Friday and be back at work Monday.
So what happens if London, Paris, Brussels, etc., etc. are still closed in a fortnight? or a month? or three months? You guys could probably fly to Madrid or someplace and get home by train, but I have a colleague visiting her daughter in the UK, she was due to fly out Friday and be back at work Monday.
- How is she and thousands of others going to get home?
- Will Prestwick become the major UK airport?
- Or will Air NZ flights from here terminate in Marseilles or Toulouse and SLF have to get the TGV to London via Paris?
- And how long before airport companies are in receivership - no landing fees, no car-park fees, no duty-free sales, but the finance costs continue, and so do a portion of all the other costs?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: by the Great Salt Lake, USA
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kiwi grey...
I have a two-word answer for you.
Queen Mary.
If'n you don't like that one, then I say... Holland America.
Cruise liners become ocean liners once again.... Bring Back the Blue Riband!!!
I have a two-word answer for you.
Queen Mary.
If'n you don't like that one, then I say... Holland America.
Cruise liners become ocean liners once again.... Bring Back the Blue Riband!!!
I heard on the wireless at the end of last week that the Eyjafjallajoekull eruption had already released more CO2 and CO into the atmosphere than humans had in the previous 100 years.
That should give the huggy-fluffy warmists something to worry about!
Major airlines such as ba, KLM and Lufthansa have already begun to challenge the 'ash-ist' doom-mongers about the validity of their computer modelling - sampling flights over Europe have found nothing of any real concern.
A Dornier over the North Sea did find some gaseous layers and a trace of ash - but perhaps nothing worse than you get downwind of Didcot in a summertime inversion.
Are the ash-ists taking over from the pig flu, chicken flu and millenium bug alarmists, one has to wonder?
That should give the huggy-fluffy warmists something to worry about!
Major airlines such as ba, KLM and Lufthansa have already begun to challenge the 'ash-ist' doom-mongers about the validity of their computer modelling - sampling flights over Europe have found nothing of any real concern.
A Dornier over the North Sea did find some gaseous layers and a trace of ash - but perhaps nothing worse than you get downwind of Didcot in a summertime inversion.
Are the ash-ists taking over from the pig flu, chicken flu and millenium bug alarmists, one has to wonder?
Duty of care and acute risk aversion perhaps? 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagle
"I heard on the wireless at the end of last week that the Eyjafjallajoekull eruption had already released more CO2 and CO into the atmosphere than humans had in the previous 100 years."
Just confirm that you are aware that not everything on the wireless bears any resemblance to the truth? Some of it may, in fact, be total arse gravy.
"I heard on the wireless at the end of last week that the Eyjafjallajoekull eruption had already released more CO2 and CO into the atmosphere than humans had in the previous 100 years."
Just confirm that you are aware that not everything on the wireless bears any resemblance to the truth? Some of it may, in fact, be total arse gravy.
Re CO2 output
So how much has it put out since it started smoking last week? I am sure it is a lot, but can anyone reliably calculate it?(I suppose where the climate change people are concerned, reliable data isn't that important)
Does anyone know what % of CO2 released per year is from humans vs nature? I mean all this green taxes etc, what's the point if we only produce say 10% of output. This volcano must have knocked a large hole in this years figures.
Does anyone know what % of CO2 released per year is from humans vs nature? I mean all this green taxes etc, what's the point if we only produce say 10% of output. This volcano must have knocked a large hole in this years figures.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire
Age: 48
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gas studies at volcanoes worldwide have helped volcanologists tally up a global volcanic CO2 budget in the same way that nations around the globe have cooperated to determine how much CO2 is released by human activity through the burning of fossil fuels. Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually.
This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value.
Which produces more CO2, volcanic or human activity?
This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value.
Which produces more CO2, volcanic or human activity?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The situation must definitely be getting serious, and the ripples are spreading in the pond. I got an advertising email from Flight Centre this morning, and the incredible part about that email, was that it was advertising RAIL JOURNEYS!! Yes, the 3 DAY RAIL SALE offer, is on from today, from Flight Centre. There wasn't a mention of a single airfare deal, to anywhere, on the whole page ..... 
Ahh, well. At least I guess I can look forward to....
1. Cheaper fuel via lower oil prices....
2. Less gallivanting around by pollies, at MY expense....
Ahh, well. At least I guess I can look forward to....
1. Cheaper fuel via lower oil prices....
2. Less gallivanting around by pollies, at MY expense....
Dunkirk Spirit alive and well
I see a plan to start an 'evacuation' from the beaches of Dunkirk (well maybe the harbour) has fallen foul of our gallant Borders Agency. A few little ships are making the trip to bring back as many people as possible, but the B**** A**** are insisting they pre manifest (or whatever the marine paperwork is) and name all those they are bringing back before leaving the UK. Hooray for Dan Snow and thank god these paper gods weren't around almost exactly 70 years ago.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 80
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahh, well. At least I guess I can look forward to....
1. Cheaper fuel via lower oil prices....
2. Less gallivanting around by pollies, at MY expense....
1. Cheaper fuel via lower oil prices....
2. Less gallivanting around by pollies, at MY expense....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I see a plan to start an 'evacuation' from the beaches of Dunkirk (well maybe the harbour) has fallen foul of our gallant Borders Agency. A few little ships are making the trip to bring back as many people as possible, but the B**** A**** are insisting they pre manifest (or whatever the marine paperwork is) and name all those they are bringing back before leaving the UK. Hooray for Dan Snow and thank god these paper gods weren't around almost exactly 70 years ago.
It seems the majority of "scaremongering" from the DFT/CAA/NATS/MetOffice players are based upon the BA B747 losing 4 engines in 1982. However, they always fail to mention that the B747 flew for a prolonged period through the middle of a very big and unknown ash cloud, it was a dark moonless night, there were hints that they were in an ash cloud for some time (but it was not a well known phenomenum to crews at the time) and they still managed to land safely (although it was a very close thing!).
Here is a snippet of the event that might enlighten some of those that believe all the hype...
Here is a snippet of the event that might enlighten some of those that believe all the hype...
On the clear, moonless night of 24 June 1982, Scheduled BA flight 009 took off from sweltering Kuala Lumpur bound for Australia. There were 249 passengers on board the plane, which was laden with 91,000kg of fuel for the five-hour flight to Perth.
At the controls was Captain Eric Moody (pictured recently). As they levelled out at the 747’s cruising altitude of 11,300 metres, the crew ate their evening meal, just as the flight passed south of the city of Jakarta.
His dinner eaten, Captain Moody left the cabin and made his way down the spiral stairs to the first class section in search of an unoccupied toilet; but before he could find one he was called back. Moody remembers noticing as he turned some little puffs of what seemed to be smoke issuing from vents on the floor. There was also an odour that reminded him of the smell left behind after electrical sparks have flown.
When Moody reached the cockpit the crew had already switched on the seatbelt signs and the engine igniters, to support the combustion of the fuel, just in case. The windscreens were lit up with the most impressive displays of St Elmo’s fire the captain had ever seen. The weather radar, though, showed nothing unusual. Then the First Officer pointed out that all the engines appeared to be lit from within by electrical discharges. In moments, the St Elmo’s fire changed to something resembling tracer bullets. Almost immediately, Roger the Senior Engineer called: “Engine failure number four”.
There was a pause. Then he announced: “Engine failure number two….three’s gone…. they’ve all gone.”
Moody said: “OK Roger, put out a Mayday”.
13.44 “Jakarta, Jakarta, Mayday, Mayday Speedbird 9. We’ve lost all four engines. We’re leaving 370.”
At the controls was Captain Eric Moody (pictured recently). As they levelled out at the 747’s cruising altitude of 11,300 metres, the crew ate their evening meal, just as the flight passed south of the city of Jakarta.
His dinner eaten, Captain Moody left the cabin and made his way down the spiral stairs to the first class section in search of an unoccupied toilet; but before he could find one he was called back. Moody remembers noticing as he turned some little puffs of what seemed to be smoke issuing from vents on the floor. There was also an odour that reminded him of the smell left behind after electrical sparks have flown.
When Moody reached the cockpit the crew had already switched on the seatbelt signs and the engine igniters, to support the combustion of the fuel, just in case. The windscreens were lit up with the most impressive displays of St Elmo’s fire the captain had ever seen. The weather radar, though, showed nothing unusual. Then the First Officer pointed out that all the engines appeared to be lit from within by electrical discharges. In moments, the St Elmo’s fire changed to something resembling tracer bullets. Almost immediately, Roger the Senior Engineer called: “Engine failure number four”.
There was a pause. Then he announced: “Engine failure number two….three’s gone…. they’ve all gone.”
Moody said: “OK Roger, put out a Mayday”.
13.44 “Jakarta, Jakarta, Mayday, Mayday Speedbird 9. We’ve lost all four engines. We’re leaving 370.”
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Beagle.
I don't know how neutral the assumptions the Environmental Association are, but from the Grauniad: According to the Environmental Transport Association, by the end of today the flight ban will have prevented the emission of some 2.8m tonnes of carbon dioxide since the first flights were grounded.
The volcanic eruption has released carbon dioxide, but the amount is dwarfed by the savings. Based on readings taken by scientists during the first phase of Eyjafjallajokull activity last month, the website Information is Beautiful calculated the volcano has emitted about 15,000 tonnes of CO2 each day.
I don't know how neutral the assumptions the Environmental Association are, but from the Grauniad: According to the Environmental Transport Association, by the end of today the flight ban will have prevented the emission of some 2.8m tonnes of carbon dioxide since the first flights were grounded.
The volcanic eruption has released carbon dioxide, but the amount is dwarfed by the savings. Based on readings taken by scientists during the first phase of Eyjafjallajokull activity last month, the website Information is Beautiful calculated the volcano has emitted about 15,000 tonnes of CO2 each day.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
And BA flight 009 regained all 4 when it got down a ways, and made it into the airport with adequate power for flight.