Geoff Hoon.................
BEagle,
JC might have been on that trip, allegedly! I couldn't possibly confirm or deny anything!
And no, JC is no longer in the Mob. He works for a flight-checking company now. Met him in a Burford curry house some months back, where he was staying having spent the day flight-checking the Brize navaids. Still in fine form with the patter, too, lol!
JC might have been on that trip, allegedly! I couldn't possibly confirm or deny anything!
And no, JC is no longer in the Mob. He works for a flight-checking company now. Met him in a Burford curry house some months back, where he was staying having spent the day flight-checking the Brize navaids. Still in fine form with the patter, too, lol!
Yes, Him
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ISTR a bit of a kerfuffle at Akr in about 1971 when a bunch of tropps were grabbed ad lib and lined up to meet Arnold Wislam who was in transit eastwards; a Cpl from 56 refused to shake his hand or speak to him. No action taken (or possible?) I believe.
Senior Officers Sucking Up to Politicians?
SRENNAPS stated:
Whether we like it or not, we are behoven to be nice to our 'democratically elected and accountable' politicians because the Department of State (MOD) and the forces assembled under it are under 'transparent democrtic control'. There is no option but to be nice to politicians - ultimately they authorise our budget. In recent years I have attended a number of events around the Whitehall village for the MOD and the RAF in particular. Some MPs have been engaging, interested, genuinely concerned about us; others clearly couldn't give a sh!t and were more interested in the whereabouts of the vol-au-vents and the free fizzy.
Meeting politicians (of any persuasion, except Sinn Fein, perhaps!) is an opportunity to sell our wares, get our corporate message across, develop engagment opportunities and generally raise the role of the Service(s) in the eyes of people who are primarily interested in remaining re-elected, and in the majority of cases, have few dealings with us.. Clearly, if we were rude and hostile to them, the Services would suffer. There are, however, two points:
"So why do our lords and masters (and I am talking about Sqn Ldr and above) suck up to them when they are in power!!!"
I think, Sg SRENNAPS, you have answered your question. It's about power.Whether we like it or not, we are behoven to be nice to our 'democratically elected and accountable' politicians because the Department of State (MOD) and the forces assembled under it are under 'transparent democrtic control'. There is no option but to be nice to politicians - ultimately they authorise our budget. In recent years I have attended a number of events around the Whitehall village for the MOD and the RAF in particular. Some MPs have been engaging, interested, genuinely concerned about us; others clearly couldn't give a sh!t and were more interested in the whereabouts of the vol-au-vents and the free fizzy.
Meeting politicians (of any persuasion, except Sinn Fein, perhaps!) is an opportunity to sell our wares, get our corporate message across, develop engagment opportunities and generally raise the role of the Service(s) in the eyes of people who are primarily interested in remaining re-elected, and in the majority of cases, have few dealings with us.. Clearly, if we were rude and hostile to them, the Services would suffer. There are, however, two points:
- When we engage with politicians, this is an opportunity to raise concerns we have outside the filtered stovepipes of the SofS's office.
- Just because 'senior officers' (not exclusively by the way) appear to 'suck up' to politicians, that doesn't mean they like them!
Cut & Paste Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Durham
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"So why do our lords and masters (and I am talking about Sqn Ldr and above) suck up to them when they are in power!!!"
Doesn't seem to work that well
Generals told to travel 2nd class - Times Online
Doesn't seem to work that well
Generals told to travel 2nd class - Times Online
Whilst being by no means in awe of the multi-starred ones, some of whom are charmless back-stabbing thrusters with only their own interests at heart, I think this latest announcement is quite ridiculous.
Privileges should be commensurate with status. Once upon a time anyone over the rank of Sqn Ldr travelling on duty by train went First Class. Then that became subject to the whim of the budget-holder, so was no longer an entitlement. ADCs and PSOs used to receive the same allowances as their 'man' if away on duty - then that stopped. Even a humble Plt Off used to get a cup of tea in the morning in the Officers' Mess until that was stopped.
Flag, General and Air Officers bloody well should travel First Class if travelling by train on duty. Period.
There should be some 'perks' to go with a senior position. Take 'staff cars'. The boss of a frontline squadron being entitled to nothing more than a Mini, for heaven's sake. That was back in the 90s - I imagine he gets a pushbike these days as that would be appropriate for the sandaholic 'Strength through Joy' RAF of today. Even the Stn Cdr would only have some heap of junk like a Cavalier. A well-polished Cavalier, that is, with a little flag. The Stn Cdr should have at least an Audi A6 or equivalent.
It's clear that the despicable nuLabor are intent on their socialist Utopia where all animals are equal. Except, of course, for those nuLabor MPs who are more equal than others and whose noses are firmly in the trough. When they're not hiring themselves for financial gain like some Picadilly whore.
Let's hope they're out on their ears after May 6!
Privileges should be commensurate with status. Once upon a time anyone over the rank of Sqn Ldr travelling on duty by train went First Class. Then that became subject to the whim of the budget-holder, so was no longer an entitlement. ADCs and PSOs used to receive the same allowances as their 'man' if away on duty - then that stopped. Even a humble Plt Off used to get a cup of tea in the morning in the Officers' Mess until that was stopped.
Flag, General and Air Officers bloody well should travel First Class if travelling by train on duty. Period.
There should be some 'perks' to go with a senior position. Take 'staff cars'. The boss of a frontline squadron being entitled to nothing more than a Mini, for heaven's sake. That was back in the 90s - I imagine he gets a pushbike these days as that would be appropriate for the sandaholic 'Strength through Joy' RAF of today. Even the Stn Cdr would only have some heap of junk like a Cavalier. A well-polished Cavalier, that is, with a little flag. The Stn Cdr should have at least an Audi A6 or equivalent.
It's clear that the despicable nuLabor are intent on their socialist Utopia where all animals are equal. Except, of course, for those nuLabor MPs who are more equal than others and whose noses are firmly in the trough. When they're not hiring themselves for financial gain like some Picadilly whore.
Let's hope they're out on their ears after May 6!
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Meet the idiot who dreamt this up. Disgraceful.
Ministry of Defence | About Defence | People | Ministers | Under Secretary of State for Defence and Minister for Veterans
Ministry of Defence | About Defence | People | Ministers | Under Secretary of State for Defence and Minister for Veterans
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
Age: 67
Posts: 867
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I could just imagine the scene if some of the senior officers of the past such as ACM Sir Arthur Harris, the wartime head of Bomber Command who were renowned for their "robust" views were told that they could not have their staff car and driver, or were told that they had to travel second class. I would imagine that the meeting would be very short!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Wales
Age: 63
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whenurhappy
Many thanks for your excellent reply to my post. I have to admit I agree with everything you have written. As an ex, “so called old wise SNCO”, I did understand the politics involved and how one had to conduct themselves in front of visiting VIPs, especially politicians.
But it still used to annoy me...........
By the way I also knew and still know many, many senior officers that I have total respect for. They were/are true leaders and inspirers of all who worked for them. Some of them are in very senior positions now and I know they don’t “suck up”. But, they also get slagged off by some of the faceless people here on this forum.....and that does annoy me.
Kind regards
Many thanks for your excellent reply to my post. I have to admit I agree with everything you have written. As an ex, “so called old wise SNCO”, I did understand the politics involved and how one had to conduct themselves in front of visiting VIPs, especially politicians.
But it still used to annoy me...........
By the way I also knew and still know many, many senior officers that I have total respect for. They were/are true leaders and inspirers of all who worked for them. Some of them are in very senior positions now and I know they don’t “suck up”. But, they also get slagged off by some of the faceless people here on this forum.....and that does annoy me.
Kind regards
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Age: 50
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Met GH at a reception at Hampton Court palace a number of years ago, when he was Defence Secretary. Complete c**k - a more arrogant and knowledgeless wan**r you could not meet.
Hoon
Hoon was always one of the very worst to have to listen to because he'd clearly been programmed to be the ultimate in impenetrable, glassy eyed, on message talking heads, with about as much utility as a talking filing cabinet..
A true apparatchik, he would drone out the party line in tones that just made you want to reach for the remote. He knew he was a complete phoney, we knew it and he knew we knew it.. However, he was a Minister of the Crown, on a minister's pay (and pension) and he was in the driving seat and couldn't give a monkey's.
Now though? A discredited cardboard figure but his hide is so thick that he won't give a toss. People like him need nailing.
sv
A true apparatchik, he would drone out the party line in tones that just made you want to reach for the remote. He knew he was a complete phoney, we knew it and he knew we knew it.. However, he was a Minister of the Crown, on a minister's pay (and pension) and he was in the driving seat and couldn't give a monkey's.
Now though? A discredited cardboard figure but his hide is so thick that he won't give a toss. People like him need nailing.
sv
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK on a crosswind
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Politicians
My experience of briefing politicians - ministers and the PM - no matter what party - no matter how nice the man was - they were so damnably easy to wind up and point in a direction. If you were unscrupulous enough, you could tell them almost anything. With a little careful forethought you could usually get what you wanted.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I rather like the moniker that the ArRSe community have given, to quote Norman Stanley Fletcher, this charmless nerk. Over there he is referred to as TCH, an entirely appropriate nickname I believe.
TCH - ARRSEpedia
TCH - ARRSEpedia
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: somewhere special
Age: 46
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MP Comparison
not too long ago we had a good Ainsworth thread which also highlighted his shortcomings.
In our opinion, who is the worst? although Ainsworth may seem inept (the lack of being able to pronounce an aitch drops him way down on my list) at least he hasn't been dishonest (or not caught yet).
so who's worse, Hoon or Ainsworth?
In our opinion, who is the worst? although Ainsworth may seem inept (the lack of being able to pronounce an aitch drops him way down on my list) at least he hasn't been dishonest (or not caught yet).
so who's worse, Hoon or Ainsworth?
I rather like the moniker that the ArRSe community have given, to quote Norman Stanley Fletcher, this charmless nerk. Over there he is referred to as TCH, an entirely appropriate nickname I believe.
TCH - ARRSEpedia
TCH - ARRSEpedia
Gratitude
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The semi detached part of the UK
Age: 71
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bambi
TCH - ARRSEpedia
If you trawl round the Iraq/Stan threads you’ll find TCB as well. Funny that – always thought his initials were ACLB!! Allegedly, the last CGS used the former versions too!! Wonder why?
Last edited by PhamousPhotographer; 2nd Apr 2010 at 15:51. Reason: Pluralise
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dear Mods,
As this is your playground you're quite at liberty to allow any game you please, but to delete my post(s) simply because i questioned the relevance of wasting time, energy and intellect on demonizing an individual and making various unsubstantiated allegations about his performance - which may or may not be true, I couldn't care less - smacks of gross stupidity.
Read your own rules. These paper tigers, and the comments they've made here, clearly belong in Jet Blast. I read this section for informed comment on military aviation and military aviators. I don't read it to hear tales about politicians.
Bur perhaps I'm in a minority of one?
As this is your playground you're quite at liberty to allow any game you please, but to delete my post(s) simply because i questioned the relevance of wasting time, energy and intellect on demonizing an individual and making various unsubstantiated allegations about his performance - which may or may not be true, I couldn't care less - smacks of gross stupidity.
Read your own rules. These paper tigers, and the comments they've made here, clearly belong in Jet Blast. I read this section for informed comment on military aviation and military aviators. I don't read it to hear tales about politicians.
Bur perhaps I'm in a minority of one?
On the face of it, Geoff Hoon has got to be the worst Defence Secretary, when compared to R. Ainsworth given the recent revelations about "idiot for hire" services. But more so, this is the Defence Secretary who presided over the decimation of the country's frontline forces by handing the Defence Budget to the Treasury, at the time in the hands of Mr G. Brown.
This is the man who left Defence matters in a far more diminished state than need have been the case.
FB
This is the man who left Defence matters in a far more diminished state than need have been the case.
FB