Tristar near miss with Sherpa van BZN Dec 90
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Tristar near miss with Sherpa van BZN Dec 90
Does anyone have any info on this incident, I was a passenger on my way to FI and remember it quite clearly. I also read an Air Clues article shortly after but have misplaced my copy over the years and am looking to replace it. I have searched the internet but archive copies do not seem to be available on the new Air Clues site. any help would be appreciated Thanks
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I believe it was a K1 and not a near miss, but an actual hit, putting the tristar hdu's out of action for the the duration of Granby.
I believe the sherpa in question ran the red light on the peri track and had it's roof adjusted.
I believe the sherpa in question ran the red light on the peri track and had it's roof adjusted.
You can put a Freedom of Information request into M.O.D and request a copy
of the Board of Inquiry report (provided one was held).
Using the FOI I obtained a copy of the BOI report into the Tristar 'Autoland'
incident a few years ago (it was a very interesting read) so provided it is not still classified (which I doubt) you
should be able to get a copy of the report.
Peter
of the Board of Inquiry report (provided one was held).
Using the FOI I obtained a copy of the BOI report into the Tristar 'Autoland'
incident a few years ago (it was a very interesting read) so provided it is not still classified (which I doubt) you
should be able to get a copy of the report.
Peter
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Just to end any wild speculation
I know someone who met someone who once had a beer with one of the chaps in the window seats at the front. So on that basis I quash the following rumours;
1. The sherpa did not hit the Tristar. It got close, the Tristar rotated before VR to avoid the Sherpa and the tail struck the ground, causing damage to the "frangible" Hose Drum unit. Apart from that no damage to main structure of Tristar.
2. Lineys not involved; pure ATC c0ck-up.
Swiss cheese model almost lined up; luck and skill (in varying amounts) saved the day. The holes in the Swiss Cheese were;
a. Airfield previously closed for long term maintenance, and
b Airfield opens at night for the one-off midnight departure to ASI, and
c. During airfield closure it became "SOP" to drive through the red stop lights, because the airfield was permanently closed.. right?
d. hump in runway obscures view down runway.
Now take a young lad just returned from leave tasked with driving to get the midnight chow in the Sherpa as he did every night before leave. Bare in mind he may not have been briefed about b. and not told that c. had been changed. I shall leave it to you to join up all the holes in the cheese.
Even if this version of events is tarnished by time and alcohol there was no major damage and the night provided a host of valuable lessons for all operators of "moving things" on airfields......
1. The sherpa did not hit the Tristar. It got close, the Tristar rotated before VR to avoid the Sherpa and the tail struck the ground, causing damage to the "frangible" Hose Drum unit. Apart from that no damage to main structure of Tristar.
2. Lineys not involved; pure ATC c0ck-up.
Swiss cheese model almost lined up; luck and skill (in varying amounts) saved the day. The holes in the Swiss Cheese were;
a. Airfield previously closed for long term maintenance, and
b Airfield opens at night for the one-off midnight departure to ASI, and
c. During airfield closure it became "SOP" to drive through the red stop lights, because the airfield was permanently closed.. right?
d. hump in runway obscures view down runway.
Now take a young lad just returned from leave tasked with driving to get the midnight chow in the Sherpa as he did every night before leave. Bare in mind he may not have been briefed about b. and not told that c. had been changed. I shall leave it to you to join up all the holes in the cheese.
Even if this version of events is tarnished by time and alcohol there was no major damage and the night provided a host of valuable lessons for all operators of "moving things" on airfields......
Tristar Autoland Accident
If that was the one in 1986, I was at the southern end of the FI airbridge, and that and onother incident (undercarriage bay fire?) caused delays to the roulement, only a day or two whilst BA were brought in. However, in the intervening period its was not safe to be identifiably RAF in Stanley.
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Liam, I guess our recollections are a little hazy. Firstly, there is no significant 'hump' in the runway at the centre intersection. There was a lot of work in progress at the time and the runway lights were being used as one of the methods of alerting the workforce to aircraft movements; this was a difference to the normal procedure whereby all vehicles would ordinarily call on management radio to cross the runway.
Anyway, our intrepid air traffic assistant, for whatever reason, forgets the procedures and goes flying across the central intersection (aptly named Charlie) without any ATC clearance, not noticing that the runway lights were on (the "get off the runway" message) and gets rather close to Timmy. There are various assessments as to how 'close' things got - suffice to say it was close enough to twitch many a sphincter. The Tristar crew do a sterling job, depart to the SW for an underwear change and eventually come back with evidence of a significant tailscrape.
The witch hunt never actually came up with a categorical reason why SAC F'witt did what he did. Unfortunately, a local procedure was then introduced whereby the centre intersection lights were left on red and changed by ATC to green whenever they wanted to clear a vehicle to cross. In HF terms this was (is?) absolute madness as these lights are operated in the opposite sense to any other set of ATC controlled traffic lights. Some years later I observed a light aircraft land, a vehicle call to cross at the centre and the controller automatically switch the centre lights from red to green (whilst the aircraft was still on the runway) as he had been 'conditioned' to operate in this way.
As for OC 101 playing chicken with the same lights................
Anyway, our intrepid air traffic assistant, for whatever reason, forgets the procedures and goes flying across the central intersection (aptly named Charlie) without any ATC clearance, not noticing that the runway lights were on (the "get off the runway" message) and gets rather close to Timmy. There are various assessments as to how 'close' things got - suffice to say it was close enough to twitch many a sphincter. The Tristar crew do a sterling job, depart to the SW for an underwear change and eventually come back with evidence of a significant tailscrape.
The witch hunt never actually came up with a categorical reason why SAC F'witt did what he did. Unfortunately, a local procedure was then introduced whereby the centre intersection lights were left on red and changed by ATC to green whenever they wanted to clear a vehicle to cross. In HF terms this was (is?) absolute madness as these lights are operated in the opposite sense to any other set of ATC controlled traffic lights. Some years later I observed a light aircraft land, a vehicle call to cross at the centre and the controller automatically switch the centre lights from red to green (whilst the aircraft was still on the runway) as he had been 'conditioned' to operate in this way.
As for OC 101 playing chicken with the same lights................
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Wasn't Charlie McGibbon the skipper on that one? They flew off to the Bristol Channel and dumped a fair amount of go juice before returning to Brize.
I'm surprised Charlie saw it, he used to set his seat SOoo low.
Still, all's well that ends well. Dare say there was an unpleasant smell around the (I thought it was a contractor's van) driver.
I'm surprised Charlie saw it, he used to set his seat SOoo low.
Still, all's well that ends well. Dare say there was an unpleasant smell around the (I thought it was a contractor's van) driver.
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Slightly Different Version 3:
The runway lights weren't used to alert the workforce - the runway was handed to and from the contractor in differing blocks of hours, depending on the flying programme. But the decision was made to keep the middle intersection lights at red at all times during contractor work, to protect the workforce from collisions with numpties crossing on the usual green and not looking out properly.
ATC driver in Sherpa van crossed the runway earlier in the evening, having correctly gained permission to do so on a red. It was a quiet night (probably due to the runway being dug up), and a few hours later the same driver is returning to ATC, sees the reds again, and presumes this is still because of workmen, so doesn't bother disturbing the Tower to call to cross. Except lights are on red because the FI Tristar is on take-off roll.
Driver sees Tristar as he is mid-runway, with little option than to keep going, and suffers little more than a rocking Sherpa due to wake turbulence. There was no collision, although the Tristar did rotate early and 'rip the refuelling gear off the back', requiring him to dump fuel in the Bristol Channel and RTB. The story made the local press the following morning, as there were a bunch of assorted journos onboard.
The runway lights weren't used to alert the workforce - the runway was handed to and from the contractor in differing blocks of hours, depending on the flying programme. But the decision was made to keep the middle intersection lights at red at all times during contractor work, to protect the workforce from collisions with numpties crossing on the usual green and not looking out properly.
ATC driver in Sherpa van crossed the runway earlier in the evening, having correctly gained permission to do so on a red. It was a quiet night (probably due to the runway being dug up), and a few hours later the same driver is returning to ATC, sees the reds again, and presumes this is still because of workmen, so doesn't bother disturbing the Tower to call to cross. Except lights are on red because the FI Tristar is on take-off roll.
Driver sees Tristar as he is mid-runway, with little option than to keep going, and suffers little more than a rocking Sherpa due to wake turbulence. There was no collision, although the Tristar did rotate early and 'rip the refuelling gear off the back', requiring him to dump fuel in the Bristol Channel and RTB. The story made the local press the following morning, as there were a bunch of assorted journos onboard.
Last edited by dallas; 5th Mar 2010 at 19:55.
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As I recall, the co-pilot (JF) saw the sherpa crossing right-to-left and called it. The captain, whose name escapes me was one of, if not the most experienced RAF Tristar pilots at that time. His actions prevented this from being something far, far worse than a scraped HDU.
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The captain was and still is a star; still teaching youngsters to fly AT and the Tri*. When I was a kid "Boys own" novels were a great read! Surely this is one of the those great stories! Here's to C McG
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Thank You
Just a thankyou to all who contributed to this post, I didn't expect such a response and certainly didn't think the incident would be remembered in such detail by so many. Thanks again
