Single prop stall recoveries
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NEVER lift the wing with aileron or even rudder unless above 60 -65 KIAS.
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I have just checked my notes from 1 EFTS. (Grob Tutor)
STANDARD STALL RECOVERY
Control Column Centrally Forward Until the Buffet Stops
(Hold the Resulting Attitude)
And
Simultaneously Apply Full Power (Balance With Rudder)
Level the Wings With Aileron
Ease Out of the Descent at Safe Flying Speed
Carry Out the After Take-off Checks
PS - 60 - 65 KIAS is a generic trainer type airspeed that is safe to roll level if the wing is still free of anymore load than + 1g . But as you say - seek individual type advise.
STANDARD STALL RECOVERY
Control Column Centrally Forward Until the Buffet Stops
(Hold the Resulting Attitude)
And
Simultaneously Apply Full Power (Balance With Rudder)
Level the Wings With Aileron
Ease Out of the Descent at Safe Flying Speed
Carry Out the After Take-off Checks
PS - 60 - 65 KIAS is a generic trainer type airspeed that is safe to roll level if the wing is still free of anymore load than + 1g . But as you say - seek individual type advise.
"Going back to my original question, can anybody quote the actual words used in any military training manual or pilots notes?"
Yes, sorry. Back to the original question. From the Firefly IGF. (Old Firefly, not the 260HP version.
19. Teach recovery from the stall using full power, this is the standard stall recovery. Note the height approaching the stall so that you can point out the height loss during recovery. The standard stall recovery is to:
a. Simultaneously, move the control column forward until the buffet stops and apply full power, using rudder to balance.
b. Level the wings with ailerons in necessary.
c. Regain a safe flying speed and ease out of the descent.
If you want the whole document, PM me with a snail mail address.
Yes, sorry. Back to the original question. From the Firefly IGF. (Old Firefly, not the 260HP version.
19. Teach recovery from the stall using full power, this is the standard stall recovery. Note the height approaching the stall so that you can point out the height loss during recovery. The standard stall recovery is to:
a. Simultaneously, move the control column forward until the buffet stops and apply full power, using rudder to balance.
b. Level the wings with ailerons in necessary.
c. Regain a safe flying speed and ease out of the descent.
If you want the whole document, PM me with a snail mail address.
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Time for a trip down Memory Lane.
Dug out my Chipmunk T10 Pilot's Notes.
Went to Index- Stalling para 34.
(i) stuff on stall speeeds- 35 kts, power off, with flaps.
(ii) In all cases warning is given by slight elevator buffeting some 3 kts before the stall occurs. With power off at the stall, the nose drops gently accompanied by elevator buffetting and there is a slight tendency for the nose to pitch. If the stick is held hard back, the elevator buffeting is increased and a wing will drop. With power on, the pre-stall buffeting is increased and the wing drop at the stall is more pronounced.
(iii)Stalling speeds are reduced by about 2-3 kts with one pilot only in the aircraft.
(iv)With the canopy open, stalling speeds and characteristics remain unaltered.
(v)The stall in a steep turn is indicated by buffeting but there is normally no tendency to flick out of the turn.
(vi)Recovery in all cases is straightforward and easy ( my capitals!)
That's it in the book! Nothing more! As I recall, you let the nose drop, levelled the ailerons, neutralised the rudder, and the aircraft pretty much sorted itself out with or without a bit of power at the appropriate point.
Then straight on to para 35 on spinning, which does admittedly set out recovery procedures.
A lovely aircraft.
Dug out my Chipmunk T10 Pilot's Notes.
Went to Index- Stalling para 34.
(i) stuff on stall speeeds- 35 kts, power off, with flaps.
(ii) In all cases warning is given by slight elevator buffeting some 3 kts before the stall occurs. With power off at the stall, the nose drops gently accompanied by elevator buffetting and there is a slight tendency for the nose to pitch. If the stick is held hard back, the elevator buffeting is increased and a wing will drop. With power on, the pre-stall buffeting is increased and the wing drop at the stall is more pronounced.
(iii)Stalling speeds are reduced by about 2-3 kts with one pilot only in the aircraft.
(iv)With the canopy open, stalling speeds and characteristics remain unaltered.
(v)The stall in a steep turn is indicated by buffeting but there is normally no tendency to flick out of the turn.
(vi)Recovery in all cases is straightforward and easy ( my capitals!)
That's it in the book! Nothing more! As I recall, you let the nose drop, levelled the ailerons, neutralised the rudder, and the aircraft pretty much sorted itself out with or without a bit of power at the appropriate point.
Then straight on to para 35 on spinning, which does admittedly set out recovery procedures.
A lovely aircraft.
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Oh, what I would give to fly an aircraft that would always give me buffet before the stall 
. Most of the modern day stuff we GA pilots fly rarely gives a buffet, sometimes a wing drop (normally due to being out of balance), occasionally a pitch forward, thus leaving us with a rapid ROD as the only reliable indication of a stall. Even then, you can handle the controls like a complete idiot and the chances are you will still walk away. 
Of course, I'm still a big fan of the "unload simultaneously applying full power" technique as long as student pilots realise that it is only the unload bit that will un-stall the wing; the power bit is a bonus.
. Most of the modern day stuff we GA pilots fly rarely gives a buffet, sometimes a wing drop (normally due to being out of balance), occasionally a pitch forward, thus leaving us with a rapid ROD as the only reliable indication of a stall. Even then, you can handle the controls like a complete idiot and the chances are you will still walk away. Of course, I'm still a big fan of the "unload simultaneously applying full power" technique as long as student pilots realise that it is only the unload bit that will un-stall the wing; the power bit is a bonus.
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Oh, what I would give to fly an aircraft that would always give me buffet before the stall
Well, yes, Fridays were best because it was a curry buffet....
I'll get me coat..
Well, yes, Fridays were best because it was a curry buffet....
I'll get me coat..
Last edited by chippy63; 7th Feb 2010 at 20:15.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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"I haven't flown the Tucano, but I have the PC-9 (which is vastly superior)"
If you haven't flown the Tucano, how do you know?
If you haven't flown the Tucano, how do you know?
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It's diverging a little from the original post, but: I learned to fly in the Firefly 260 and do a fair amount of teaching on a Lance now. The Lance will bite you hard if you recover from a stall without using the pedals and use aileron instead, but it will also do a full power stall recovery with no attitude change if the controls are handled correctly - no danger at all of it getting truly exciting if a) the aircraft is correctly rigged and b) flown in balance! In 65 hours I had 1 inadvertent spin in the Firefly: messing up the second half of a stall turn, which was totally down to my mishandling of the controls at a low airspeed.
I'm not in any way trying to detract from PAPI-74's opinions - but in my experience on both types a standard stall recovery with power & control input simultaneously works nicely. Bear in mind that the power input is not designed to unload the wing (if anything it'll cause an involuntary pitch up), but rather to accelerate the aircraft into a climb faster to give minimum height loss.
I'm not in any way trying to detract from PAPI-74's opinions - but in my experience on both types a standard stall recovery with power & control input simultaneously works nicely. Bear in mind that the power input is not designed to unload the wing (if anything it'll cause an involuntary pitch up), but rather to accelerate the aircraft into a climb faster to give minimum height loss.
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Bulldog Standard Stall Recovery
I own an ex RAF Bulldog and this is a direct quote from the RAF Student Study Guide (Flying) Vol II FTP/3225M Vol II Chapter 10 Para 20
'Move the control column centrally forward until buffet stops and silmultaneously apply full power (balance) level the wings ease out of the descent at safe flying speed, trim and carry our full power check"
'Move the control column centrally forward until buffet stops and silmultaneously apply full power (balance) level the wings ease out of the descent at safe flying speed, trim and carry our full power check"
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I've read with interest all of the previous posts and there is obviously consensus about the "standard stall recovery" as taught by the RAF. That is as it should be.....
One difference between military and civil training is that military aircrew are exposed a lot more to "unusual attitudes" - I mean in the 3D sense! Whether taught on the Chipmunk, Bulldog, Grob or Tucano turning upside down is not a problem, there is a 5-point harness, you are wearing a parachute, the ac is stressed for the manoevre (if the recovery goes wrong) and the whole emphasis of training is developing "poling" skills to manoevre later ac at the extremes of their flight envelopes.
Contrast that with civil air training. The ac are mainly used in straight and level flight, emphasis is on safe navigation, and the procedural aspects of flying pax from A to B. The ac are not stressed for aerobatics (generally speaking), you are restrained by little more than a car seat belt, and the instructors have not just come off a fast jet tour! The student pilots are of all ages and not in the 19 - 24 age range, fit and keen as I was 30 years ago!
Hardly surprising there's a different approach! The question is which is the more realistic of what happens in the real world. I first flew solo in a Cadet Mk.3 after 21 launches and 92 minutes dual aged 16. Before doing so I was taught stall and incipient spin recoveries, cable breaks and I think gliding is a superb (and cheap) introduction to powered flying - it certainly has made me very conscious of having always having a "field" available for a FL.
MB
One difference between military and civil training is that military aircrew are exposed a lot more to "unusual attitudes" - I mean in the 3D sense! Whether taught on the Chipmunk, Bulldog, Grob or Tucano turning upside down is not a problem, there is a 5-point harness, you are wearing a parachute, the ac is stressed for the manoevre (if the recovery goes wrong) and the whole emphasis of training is developing "poling" skills to manoevre later ac at the extremes of their flight envelopes.
Contrast that with civil air training. The ac are mainly used in straight and level flight, emphasis is on safe navigation, and the procedural aspects of flying pax from A to B. The ac are not stressed for aerobatics (generally speaking), you are restrained by little more than a car seat belt, and the instructors have not just come off a fast jet tour! The student pilots are of all ages and not in the 19 - 24 age range, fit and keen as I was 30 years ago!
Hardly surprising there's a different approach! The question is which is the more realistic of what happens in the real world. I first flew solo in a Cadet Mk.3 after 21 launches and 92 minutes dual aged 16. Before doing so I was taught stall and incipient spin recoveries, cable breaks and I think gliding is a superb (and cheap) introduction to powered flying - it certainly has made me very conscious of having always having a "field" available for a FL.
MB
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One difference between military and civil training is that military aircrew are exposed a lot more to "unusual attitudes" - I mean in the 3D sense! Whether taught on the Chipmunk, Bulldog, Grob or Tucano turning upside down is not a problem, there is a 5-point harness, you are wearing a parachute, the ac is stressed for the manoevre (if the recovery goes wrong) and the whole emphasis of training is developing "poling" skills to manoevre later ac at the extremes of their flight envelopes.
Contrast that with civil air training. The ac are mainly used in straight and level flight, emphasis is on safe navigation, and the procedural aspects of flying pax from A to B. The ac are not stressed for aerobatics (generally speaking), you are restrained by little more than a car seat belt, and the instructors have not just come off a fast jet tour! The student pilots are of all ages and not in the 19 - 24 age range, fit and keen as I was 30 years ago!
Contrast that with civil air training. The ac are mainly used in straight and level flight, emphasis is on safe navigation, and the procedural aspects of flying pax from A to B. The ac are not stressed for aerobatics (generally speaking), you are restrained by little more than a car seat belt, and the instructors have not just come off a fast jet tour! The student pilots are of all ages and not in the 19 - 24 age range, fit and keen as I was 30 years ago!
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Cirrus
Read his post.
He is talking about students, not student instructors.
And please don't tell me that you think having seen a couple of spins in training is the same exposure to UAs as a military career (or 5 minutes limited panel IF with me
)
Read his post.
He is talking about students, not student instructors.
And please don't tell me that you think having seen a couple of spins in training is the same exposure to UAs as a military career (or 5 minutes limited panel IF with me
)
