Defence green paper to suggest we co-operate more with the French..
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Defence green paper to suggest we co-operate more with the French..
Well - would you? Stories serious and funny about the French forces, but not the defence/alert state gags, they are too old.
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I'd rather co-operate with the French (despite the long history!) than the Afghans we are now expected to 'partner'. I would not want to share a patrol base - even worse an admin area - with Afghans. I'd be constantly looking over my shoulder whilst holding my Sig close at hand in case they were the next bunch to try and murder some coalition forces. However, I am guilty of immediate thread creep, back to your original question.
The French are our closest neighbours, and as western europeans we share many cultural values. I have worked with them, and would do so again. Albeit with a few napolionic jibes to remind them that we won, and they lost!
The French are our closest neighbours, and as western europeans we share many cultural values. I have worked with them, and would do so again. Albeit with a few napolionic jibes to remind them that we won, and they lost!
sidewayspeak,
Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................
1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.
Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................
1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.
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Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................
1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.
1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.
Always great fun working with our leetle froggy friends!
During Bold Gauntlet, from Gutersloh, we were supposed to practise escorting either a C310 or a Fench C-160 up the 'passageway' (don't say 'corridor'....
).
The Brits had an F4 det, the French had some Mirage IIIs - and the spams had F-15As. Of course the spams could have done the whole thing themselves, but this was a political gesture. Nevertheless, the spams spent ages working out tactics, whereas the Brits and the French just bumbled around their assigned sector. Various codewords were assigned for whoever saw the intruding 'MiG' - either a Hunter T7A / T8B from Laarbits or an F-16. When the spams were leading, codewords woulf be things like 'Snake' or 'Bear' or other oo-rah words...
But when it came the turn of an F-4 mate known as Stu T+9 to lead, the words were 'knobber' and 'pillock' etc....
Hilarious listening to Les Froggies announcing "Blue 2 is nobbeurre!"
Then came the day the French had the lead and the C-160 was the transport to be escorted. They took the Brit C-130 captain along for the ride - along with all the prettiest WRAFs on the base (and there were quite a few back then!).
Bimbling about flying figure-of-eight on the left wing, Impiger and I were astonished to see the French Mirages neatly lined up in echelon behind the C160, with the Hunter and F-16 tacked on the end. The C-160 ramp was down and the only person on the flight deck was the Brit C-130 captain who'd never flown a C-160 in his life! The rest of the French team were partying with the girls in the back and taking photos of their Mirage mates!
I think that Words were Had by the F-15 boss as he thought this was all a bit unprofessional. To soothe international relations, he offered a visiting French general a trip in the F-15B. Usual brief, then down to flying clothing....
When handed his turning trousers, the Frenchman announced in a rather superior way "Ah am a fighter peelot - Ah do not need a g-suit!"
The boss went to find the most aggressive pilot on his det and told him "The general says he doesn't need a g-suit; perhaps you would like to change his mind for him?"
So off they went. The spam held it down along the entire length of the runway, then pulled hard into a full A/B spiral climb until he arrived at the max permitted alt, throttled back to idle/idle, popped full speed brake and went into in a max rate descending turn to the IP, roared in to the circuit and landed. Of course the general had been out of it from the moment they entered the spiral climb...
"How was it?" asked the boss? "Oh, it was very interesting"
Then came the final part of the F-15 trip - an entire raw egg to eat, with shell. The general accepted with good grace.
Working with the French is great, from my experience. Same during our Incirlik tanker dets.
During Bold Gauntlet, from Gutersloh, we were supposed to practise escorting either a C310 or a Fench C-160 up the 'passageway' (don't say 'corridor'....
).The Brits had an F4 det, the French had some Mirage IIIs - and the spams had F-15As. Of course the spams could have done the whole thing themselves, but this was a political gesture. Nevertheless, the spams spent ages working out tactics, whereas the Brits and the French just bumbled around their assigned sector. Various codewords were assigned for whoever saw the intruding 'MiG' - either a Hunter T7A / T8B from Laarbits or an F-16. When the spams were leading, codewords woulf be things like 'Snake' or 'Bear' or other oo-rah words...
But when it came the turn of an F-4 mate known as Stu T+9 to lead, the words were 'knobber' and 'pillock' etc....Hilarious listening to Les Froggies announcing "Blue 2 is nobbeurre!"
Then came the day the French had the lead and the C-160 was the transport to be escorted. They took the Brit C-130 captain along for the ride - along with all the prettiest WRAFs on the base (and there were quite a few back then!).
Bimbling about flying figure-of-eight on the left wing, Impiger and I were astonished to see the French Mirages neatly lined up in echelon behind the C160, with the Hunter and F-16 tacked on the end. The C-160 ramp was down and the only person on the flight deck was the Brit C-130 captain who'd never flown a C-160 in his life! The rest of the French team were partying with the girls in the back and taking photos of their Mirage mates!
I think that Words were Had by the F-15 boss as he thought this was all a bit unprofessional. To soothe international relations, he offered a visiting French general a trip in the F-15B. Usual brief, then down to flying clothing....
When handed his turning trousers, the Frenchman announced in a rather superior way "Ah am a fighter peelot - Ah do not need a g-suit!"
The boss went to find the most aggressive pilot on his det and told him "The general says he doesn't need a g-suit; perhaps you would like to change his mind for him?"
So off they went. The spam held it down along the entire length of the runway, then pulled hard into a full A/B spiral climb until he arrived at the max permitted alt, throttled back to idle/idle, popped full speed brake and went into in a max rate descending turn to the IP, roared in to the circuit and landed. Of course the general had been out of it from the moment they entered the spiral climb...
"How was it?" asked the boss? "Oh, it was very interesting"
Then came the final part of the F-15 trip - an entire raw egg to eat, with shell. The general accepted with good grace.
Working with the French is great, from my experience. Same during our Incirlik tanker dets.
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What colour trousers?
Isn't it true that the British Army Officers once wore red trousers so that if they were injured in battle the blood would not show up and put off the rest of the troops?
The French Army Officers wore brown trousers!
The French Army Officers wore brown trousers!
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Procurement is one area for co-operation, I expect.
The French could procure the cheese, quite a lot of the wine, and the uniforms for the female service-people, perhaps?
The Brits could keep hold of buying the beer, the bacon/sausages and the horses (or the French would eat them).
Other suggestions?
The French could procure the cheese, quite a lot of the wine, and the uniforms for the female service-people, perhaps?
The Brits could keep hold of buying the beer, the bacon/sausages and the horses (or the French would eat them).
Other suggestions?
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Anyone care to ask if the French want to work with us?
Before we get too sold on Gawdon Brown's latest wheese to avoid spending the level of money that any sensible government ought to be spending to safeguard the national interest, has anyone canvassed the French national opinion of having to work with us?
For all I know the French still have some Gallic pride and they may want to preserve it. France still has serious oveseas interests in the Pacific, in Africa (Dijbouti, Senegal, Chad and others), in the Caribbean (Martinique, Guadaloupe, St. Martin) and Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean. They also have an independent nuclear deterrent.....the French won't take kindly to suggestions to disband the Patrouille de France, and to amalgamate them with the Reds!
We used to share a strong sense of national pride but its all been pi$$ed away with insipid politics, helf & safety, equal opportunities, human rights, and a nanny-state mentality.....
I'm not after a fascist or dictator-led state but we were able to sustain 3.5% to 5% of GDP spending on defence in the really austere period after WWII and throughout the Cold War and that is the kind of spend we ought to be maintaining if we are to ensure the protection of British interests worldwide. Sure, I agree with the need to save money in the short-term and to maximise the efficient use of what cash we have available but crisis mangement is not good for long term policy-making.
If we carry one as now planned the UK won't merit a seat in the UN security council and the PM and Foreign Secretary can put away the soap-box and forget about attending the G7, 8, 20 or whatever in the future.....
Gawdon has sold off the family silver (our gold reserves), reduced the overseas presence of our high commissions/embassies, and any beneficial influence the UK might have in the future on the world stage will lack any credability....What a shameful legacy of office to leave behind, it would make Duncan Sandys or Dr. Beeching look like saints in comparison.
MB
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For all I know the French still have some Gallic pride and they may want to preserve it. France still has serious oveseas interests in the Pacific, in Africa (Dijbouti, Senegal, Chad and others), in the Caribbean (Martinique, Guadaloupe, St. Martin) and Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean. They also have an independent nuclear deterrent.....the French won't take kindly to suggestions to disband the Patrouille de France, and to amalgamate them with the Reds!
We used to share a strong sense of national pride but its all been pi$$ed away with insipid politics, helf & safety, equal opportunities, human rights, and a nanny-state mentality.....
I'm not after a fascist or dictator-led state but we were able to sustain 3.5% to 5% of GDP spending on defence in the really austere period after WWII and throughout the Cold War and that is the kind of spend we ought to be maintaining if we are to ensure the protection of British interests worldwide. Sure, I agree with the need to save money in the short-term and to maximise the efficient use of what cash we have available but crisis mangement is not good for long term policy-making.
If we carry one as now planned the UK won't merit a seat in the UN security council and the PM and Foreign Secretary can put away the soap-box and forget about attending the G7, 8, 20 or whatever in the future.....
Gawdon has sold off the family silver (our gold reserves), reduced the overseas presence of our high commissions/embassies, and any beneficial influence the UK might have in the future on the world stage will lack any credability....What a shameful legacy of office to leave behind, it would make Duncan Sandys or Dr. Beeching look like saints in comparison.
MB
(I'll turn my mike sx off, in case you hear my hyper-breathing!)
I admire the French attitude towards petty bureaucracy.
At Incirlik, the Cousins decided that your 'orders' (those things without which Spams can't even wipe their own backsides, it seems) had to be stamped with some liquor rationing nonsense; every time you bought a bottle in the Class 6, the check-out person would fill in the ration allocation box, to ensure that you didn't buy too much.....
Our gallant French allies had a straightforward solution to the Cousins' bureaucracy. They just issued themselves with as many NATO travel orders as they needed - and made their own 'liquor stamp'.........
Allez la France!!
At Incirlik, the Cousins decided that your 'orders' (those things without which Spams can't even wipe their own backsides, it seems) had to be stamped with some liquor rationing nonsense; every time you bought a bottle in the Class 6, the check-out person would fill in the ration allocation box, to ensure that you didn't buy too much.....
Our gallant French allies had a straightforward solution to the Cousins' bureaucracy. They just issued themselves with as many NATO travel orders as they needed - and made their own 'liquor stamp'.........
Allez la France!!
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Apart of course, from the times when THEY won and we lost.................
1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.
1066 and The Hundred Years War to name but a few.
My history may be a little bit rusty, but it wasn't the French who won in 1066, it was the Normans, who were descended from the Vikings (Norsemen) - completely different set of cads to the 'Franks' (French) next door who now just happen to occupy the area of Normandy, which incidentaly they 'stole' from 'us' (ie: descendants of the Normans/ Anglo Saxons).
Also, didn't the 100 Years War include 2 minor skirmishes - Crecy & Agincourt?
PS: can we have the Canterbury Emroidery back? (AKA Bayeux Tapestry)
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Lancelot 37
It was the French Army which wore "Red Trousers" - something for which they suffered badly during the opening stages of WW1. The British Army wore the "brown" (or Khaki) trousers.
It was in 1912 that the French War Minister Adolphe Messimy (having observed the Bulgarian Army wearing dull coloured Uniforms in action in 1912) proposed that the French Army dispense with the "Pantallons Rouge" they had worn since Napoleonic times. He was promptly over ruled by the President. The French went into action in 1914 still wearing a conspicuous Blue and Red uniform - with disastous results.
Still, we should never let facts get in the way of a good blast of Xenophobia -should we?
It was the French Army which wore "Red Trousers" - something for which they suffered badly during the opening stages of WW1. The British Army wore the "brown" (or Khaki) trousers.
It was in 1912 that the French War Minister Adolphe Messimy (having observed the Bulgarian Army wearing dull coloured Uniforms in action in 1912) proposed that the French Army dispense with the "Pantallons Rouge" they had worn since Napoleonic times. He was promptly over ruled by the President. The French went into action in 1914 still wearing a conspicuous Blue and Red uniform - with disastous results.
Still, we should never let facts get in the way of a good blast of Xenophobia -should we?
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and the uniforms for the female service-people, perhaps?
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I'm kind of with MadBob on this one.
While it can be great fun to take the micky out of the French, I am also very aware that their second rate country can produce it's own aircraft, and sell them worldwide. Design and build it's own military vehicles and sell them too. They have their own fully independent nuclear capability. They have a proud heritage, and are very defensive about allow their language to be corrupted (something I strongly agree with).
And then there is the mighty UK (after many years of useless and cowardly politicians)
We cant make anything for ourselves, tend to want to buy elsewhere...So at least our kit will work!. Our young people tend to talk with an American accent, and have very limited vocabularies.
While BEagles tale above was very amusing, it is worth noting that the French were flying Mirages and a C160 (home built, and widely exported) while the RAF had the mighty F4, which had been imported, and then spoiled with a political engine fit!
Sorry to be negative, but why on earth would the French want to work with us.
I am sure they have high regard for our individual forces (as I do), but then its our glorious leaders who are actually getting us into one scrap after another.
While it can be great fun to take the micky out of the French, I am also very aware that their second rate country can produce it's own aircraft, and sell them worldwide. Design and build it's own military vehicles and sell them too. They have their own fully independent nuclear capability. They have a proud heritage, and are very defensive about allow their language to be corrupted (something I strongly agree with).
And then there is the mighty UK (after many years of useless and cowardly politicians)
We cant make anything for ourselves, tend to want to buy elsewhere...So at least our kit will work!. Our young people tend to talk with an American accent, and have very limited vocabularies.
While BEagles tale above was very amusing, it is worth noting that the French were flying Mirages and a C160 (home built, and widely exported) while the RAF had the mighty F4, which had been imported, and then spoiled with a political engine fit!
Sorry to be negative, but why on earth would the French want to work with us.
I am sure they have high regard for our individual forces (as I do), but then its our glorious leaders who are actually getting us into one scrap after another.
While the French are still building their own combat aircraft (the Rafale and a few helicopters - though the latter are the product of a consortium), there are no more combat aircraft programmes after that.
Nor are they selling them worldwide. Rafale has yet to get a single export order (yes, it's looking good in Brazil....), and the French forces are so cash-scrapped that the annual Rafale delivery rate has been slowed to the 'minimum economic level' - of just 11 aircraft per year. And exports will be used to allow a further delivery slow down to the French forces.
I'm not 'dissing' the French, by any means, just pointing out that they face VERY similar problems to us.
Nor are they selling them worldwide. Rafale has yet to get a single export order (yes, it's looking good in Brazil....), and the French forces are so cash-scrapped that the annual Rafale delivery rate has been slowed to the 'minimum economic level' - of just 11 aircraft per year. And exports will be used to allow a further delivery slow down to the French forces.
I'm not 'dissing' the French, by any means, just pointing out that they face VERY similar problems to us.