US Air Force Zoomies At It Again!
If any of the various gods that mankind so fervently believes in was looking after us as they all so certainlay state, the world would be a paradise with no wars, no famine, no sickness, no natural disaters..............
Therefore, no god, of any kind.
QED
Therefore, all worship spaces come under the same description.
Oh, and the "God moves in mysterious ways" argument just doesn't wash!!
Doc C
(sure to BURN!!)
Therefore, no god, of any kind.
QED
Therefore, all worship spaces come under the same description.
Oh, and the "God moves in mysterious ways" argument just doesn't wash!!
Doc C
(sure to BURN!!)
Thread Starter
They rapidly became despised by the Somalis as not proper warriors because thay would not reply in kind, until their Humvee patrols got to the stage of public humiliation by having ray-bans snatched from their faces by children, secure in the knowledge that no retaliation would occur. Somalis do not understand the rule of law; real men fight, the rest are beneath contempt. A vigorous application of Rule.303 gets their attention, little else. Precious little of that was seen.
I also take it....due to the absence of your complaint about the US Army....that the Army were Warriors to the man and woman....or do you hold the same view towards them as well?
I would suggest it takes more of a Warrior not to shoot someone for acts you mention.....and follow their Rules of Engagement (ROE) than to do what you endorse....kill another human being for minor theft.
If you recall....this happened under Bill Clinton....Madeline Albright....and that bunch who caused "Mission Creep" which morphed a strictly Humanitarian Mission which was a success into one of nation building where we got involved in an on-going Civil War. That is what turned the Somali's against us....not that what you suggest. It is when our forces began to forcibly disarm folks that we got into trouble and the violence mounted.
If you recall, the Germans were buying guns.....which worked. We were out there searching houses and taking guns. Our leadership once again failed us....not the Troops. They did their duty.
I watched the NGO's at work.....and especially the ones using airplanes. Now that was a waste of money if I ever saw it....the entire UN effort was one huge waste of money. You remember how many shipping containers were unaccountable for? You know how much relief supplies were being stolen right out of the Port? You recall the Black Market on Relief Goods?
What type aircraft were you flying out there and where were you quartered?
Last edited by SASless; 5th Feb 2010 at 13:26.
Funny how you started off damning the US Marines and now that you can't provide the dirt you move on to the UN.
Bull****e. I was there. There were divides for sure. Depending on who's clan you belonged to determined the response to the UN and the US specifically.
I patrolled the streets. Did you? Are you getting your info firsthand, or as I suspect from a web site?
I and many others lived in compounds, mine was the Mog airport. This was done for force protection. If I was off duty I was there, if I was on duty there was a strong chance I was outside the wire in full sight of the locals.
Where the hell were you? I was in Mogadishu with all those noises that sounded suspiciously like gunfire. We unfortunately had a number of applications of force that were not in compliance with the strict ROE and were dealt with properly. Frankly I don't care if you or the sammies respect only the business end of a weapon, our mission was humanitarian until Clinton allowed the mission to creep. I delivered a lot of food to some hungry folks who were very grateful for it.
I did that in the course of a day. The more I read of your rant the more I doubt you were there despite claims otherwise. If in the slight chance you were you were no where near Mogadishu.
37,000 not 35,000
Yes, please do answer SAS's question. It would help your credibility, I have a pretty good memory and would have dealt with you if you operated out of Mogadishu airport regularly. You know, the hub airport in country for the efforts. Same of the major airports in Kenya that were used.
If as you indicate you were a pilot you likely didn't go outside the wire and into harms way. The Mil and NGO pilots were quite happy to stay close to their planes and the safety the Marines provided. We were quite happy to give them that warm and fuzzy. That would make your observations second hand at best or as I suspect you've simply plagiarized a web site.
They rapidly became despised by the Somalis as not proper warriors because thay would not reply in kind
Bull****e. I was there. There were divides for sure. Depending on who's clan you belonged to determined the response to the UN and the US specifically.
I patrolled the streets. Did you? Are you getting your info firsthand, or as I suspect from a web site?
They quickly hunkered down in their compounds
A vigorous application of Rule.303 gets their attention, little else. Precious little of that was seen.
In the year I was there I think the UN forces provided maybe2 or 3 escorts for food convoys.
but on the ground the 35,000 UN troops
What type aircraft were you flying out there and where were you quartered?
If as you indicate you were a pilot you likely didn't go outside the wire and into harms way. The Mil and NGO pilots were quite happy to stay close to their planes and the safety the Marines provided. We were quite happy to give them that warm and fuzzy. That would make your observations second hand at best or as I suspect you've simply plagiarized a web site.
Thread Starter
Just another Wannabee....probably would wet his knickers if he heard a round fired in anger!
Beag's
Happy to raise a drink with you. I however have learned the hard way not to try and match Brit's, Ozzies or Kiwi's drink for drink so you'll understand if I do a water shooter every now and then?
Happy to raise a drink with you. I however have learned the hard way not to try and match Brit's, Ozzies or Kiwi's drink for drink so you'll understand if I do a water shooter every now and then?
Thread Starter
Drimk with Beags at your own risk Westie....he'll regale you with his exploits in bombers.....Vickers Vimy's!
Oh, you...you bitch you, SASless!
Although I have actually seen a Vimy flying* - in 1969.....
Sounds like you met a hard drinking team, Westie! Of course such things would doubtless offend some of the wet pants brigade in these PC days.
*In 1919, a local Irish press reporter announced that the first negro aviators had crossed the Atlantic in a Vickers Vimy. "Well now, are you sure of that, Seamus?" asked his incredulous editor. "Well, sorr, I only have the word of the ladies who were there. They said the crew was 'all cock - and brown', so I tink they was a couple of black fellows, to be sure".
Although I have actually seen a Vimy flying* - in 1969.....
Sounds like you met a hard drinking team, Westie! Of course such things would doubtless offend some of the wet pants brigade in these PC days.
*In 1919, a local Irish press reporter announced that the first negro aviators had crossed the Atlantic in a Vickers Vimy. "Well now, are you sure of that, Seamus?" asked his incredulous editor. "Well, sorr, I only have the word of the ladies who were there. They said the crew was 'all cock - and brown', so I tink they was a couple of black fellows, to be sure".
Thread Starter
Beags....you sweet talking rascal you!
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This was in today's newspaper. Lt Gen Gould is the Superintendent (commander) of USAFA.
GUEST COLUMN: At the U.S. Air Force Academy, it's all about mutual respect | mutual, gen, academy - Opinion - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO
GUEST COLUMN: At the U.S. Air Force Academy, it's all about mutual respect
Comments 9 | Recommend 4
February 04, 2010 8:25 PM
By Lt. Gen. Michael C. Gould
In the last several days, you’ve read or heard or seen that the Air Force Academy has established an area for earth-centered worship. Some of what you read or hear is sensationalized. I want to separate fact from fiction.
We made the decision to add a worship area for followers of earth-centered religions based on religious rights outlined in the U.S. Constitution. The stone circle is located atop a hill overlooking the visitor center and is the latest addition to a collection of worship areas that already include Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist sacred spaces.
The United States Air Force remains neutral regarding religious beliefs and will not officially endorse nor disapprove of any faith, belief or absence of belief. The earth-centered spirituality group that meets at the Air Force Academy falls within the definition of religion as defined in the United States Air Force Instruction 36-2706 which states:
“A personal set or institutional system of attitudes, moral or ethical beliefs and practices held with the strength of traditional religious views, characterized by ardor and faith and generally evidenced through specific religious observances.”
Earth-centered worship falls under this definition. Adding the earth-centered worship circle was done so in response to the request of both cadets and active duty personnel who asked that their religion be accommodated by the Air Force Academy chaplaincy.
Therefore, it is our obligation, my obligation, to accommodate the group’s religious requirements in a manner that is fair and consistent with other religious groups who are accommodated at the academy.
You may have also heard that a cross was found at the site. The cross was made of railroad ties left at the earth-worship site. This topic has also been extensively covered and not always accurately.
Though we don’t know the circumstances behind this incident, whether it was a malicious act or not, or even if academy personnel were involved, we directed an inquiry that is ongoing. If we find that this is an intentional incident and identify those responsible, we’ll take the appropriate action.
But we take this seriously and on the 2nd of January I personally talked to my senior staff to reiterate the academy’s stance on respect and dignity. Since then, our dean of faculty has addressed this with her faculty and staff, our commandant of cadets has talked to the entire cadet wing, our athletic director has talked with our coaches and physical fitness and administrative staffs, our prep school commander has talked with his staff, and the 220 cadet candidates, and the commander of our air base wing has done the same with his staff.
Our message is simple: We are taking this incident very seriously and conducting an inquiry. We absolutely do not stand for any type of destructive behavior or disrespect for human dignity.
The Air Force Academy is not the first Air Force institution to accommodate earth-centered religions and we won’t be the last. However, at the Air Force Academy the issue of religion is far greater than accommodation; it’s about religious respect.
The mission of the United States Air Force Academy is to educate, train and inspire men and women to become officers of character to lead the United States Air Force in service to our nation. We are dedicated to creating a learning and training environment where cadets can realize their highest potential regardless of their religious or other beliefs.
Cadets learn that to succeed as an Air Force officer they must be able to support and respect the people who we lead, serve with and fight alongside even if they do not share our personal beliefs.
Cadets learn that every service member is charged with defending freedom for all Americans, and that includes the freedom to practice a religion of their choice or to not practice any religion at all.
Cadets learn that it is a great honor and privilege to wear the uniform of our armed services and serve to protect freedom, to include religious freedom.
On graduation day, the same day as they are awarded a commission as second lieutenants in the United States Air Force, they will take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
At the Air Force Academy we focus and will continue to focus on respect for human dignity to ensure all personnel respect the spirit and intent of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
This is our common duty as members of the United States Air Force.
GUEST COLUMN: At the U.S. Air Force Academy, it's all about mutual respect | mutual, gen, academy - Opinion - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO
GUEST COLUMN: At the U.S. Air Force Academy, it's all about mutual respect
Comments 9 | Recommend 4
February 04, 2010 8:25 PM
By Lt. Gen. Michael C. Gould
In the last several days, you’ve read or heard or seen that the Air Force Academy has established an area for earth-centered worship. Some of what you read or hear is sensationalized. I want to separate fact from fiction.
We made the decision to add a worship area for followers of earth-centered religions based on religious rights outlined in the U.S. Constitution. The stone circle is located atop a hill overlooking the visitor center and is the latest addition to a collection of worship areas that already include Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist sacred spaces.
The United States Air Force remains neutral regarding religious beliefs and will not officially endorse nor disapprove of any faith, belief or absence of belief. The earth-centered spirituality group that meets at the Air Force Academy falls within the definition of religion as defined in the United States Air Force Instruction 36-2706 which states:
“A personal set or institutional system of attitudes, moral or ethical beliefs and practices held with the strength of traditional religious views, characterized by ardor and faith and generally evidenced through specific religious observances.”
Earth-centered worship falls under this definition. Adding the earth-centered worship circle was done so in response to the request of both cadets and active duty personnel who asked that their religion be accommodated by the Air Force Academy chaplaincy.
Therefore, it is our obligation, my obligation, to accommodate the group’s religious requirements in a manner that is fair and consistent with other religious groups who are accommodated at the academy.
You may have also heard that a cross was found at the site. The cross was made of railroad ties left at the earth-worship site. This topic has also been extensively covered and not always accurately.
Though we don’t know the circumstances behind this incident, whether it was a malicious act or not, or even if academy personnel were involved, we directed an inquiry that is ongoing. If we find that this is an intentional incident and identify those responsible, we’ll take the appropriate action.
But we take this seriously and on the 2nd of January I personally talked to my senior staff to reiterate the academy’s stance on respect and dignity. Since then, our dean of faculty has addressed this with her faculty and staff, our commandant of cadets has talked to the entire cadet wing, our athletic director has talked with our coaches and physical fitness and administrative staffs, our prep school commander has talked with his staff, and the 220 cadet candidates, and the commander of our air base wing has done the same with his staff.
Our message is simple: We are taking this incident very seriously and conducting an inquiry. We absolutely do not stand for any type of destructive behavior or disrespect for human dignity.
The Air Force Academy is not the first Air Force institution to accommodate earth-centered religions and we won’t be the last. However, at the Air Force Academy the issue of religion is far greater than accommodation; it’s about religious respect.
The mission of the United States Air Force Academy is to educate, train and inspire men and women to become officers of character to lead the United States Air Force in service to our nation. We are dedicated to creating a learning and training environment where cadets can realize their highest potential regardless of their religious or other beliefs.
Cadets learn that to succeed as an Air Force officer they must be able to support and respect the people who we lead, serve with and fight alongside even if they do not share our personal beliefs.
Cadets learn that every service member is charged with defending freedom for all Americans, and that includes the freedom to practice a religion of their choice or to not practice any religion at all.
Cadets learn that it is a great honor and privilege to wear the uniform of our armed services and serve to protect freedom, to include religious freedom.
On graduation day, the same day as they are awarded a commission as second lieutenants in the United States Air Force, they will take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
At the Air Force Academy we focus and will continue to focus on respect for human dignity to ensure all personnel respect the spirit and intent of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
This is our common duty as members of the United States Air Force.
All good stuff and very sensible.
However if that guy Gould had done the RAF Junior Staff course he'd have been slated for that piece of writing. I'm reminded of that quote which goes something like "I apologise for the length of this letter, I did not have time to write a short one", variously attributed to Doctor Johnson, Winston Churchill and others.
However if that guy Gould had done the RAF Junior Staff course he'd have been slated for that piece of writing. I'm reminded of that quote which goes something like "I apologise for the length of this letter, I did not have time to write a short one", variously attributed to Doctor Johnson, Winston Churchill and others.
