MoD civil servants waste money - official
Red On, Green On
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
MoD civil servants waste money - official
I'm helping out a military-based charity who have an office on a N Oxfordshire MoD site. The site is being emptied prior to disposal, and in the car park is a huge skip with the contents of MoD civil servants' offices.
I could see some little-used files etc, so I hopped in to grab a few for the domestic boss. While choosing ones that would meet her high standards I found two pro outdoor sodium lamps (boxed, unused, rrp £120 ea) and a laser colour toner cartridge (boxed, unused, rrp £235).
I realise this is the tip of the proverbial, but has no-one any common sense?
I could see some little-used files etc, so I hopped in to grab a few for the domestic boss. While choosing ones that would meet her high standards I found two pro outdoor sodium lamps (boxed, unused, rrp £120 ea) and a laser colour toner cartridge (boxed, unused, rrp £235).
I realise this is the tip of the proverbial, but has no-one any common sense?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A_A, the short answer is no.
Many years ago I furnished my house with lots of surplus (old-style) furniture at about £20 a pop with a mahogony quarters desk at £80. Kinloss used to put these into the local auction with about 5 pieces per week and make IRO £100-150. Where the money went I know not but probably the COs Fund.
This was the most efficient way of clearing old stuff and also a good PR exercise for the local B&Bs that were furnished to MOD MQ standards. The cost of shipping the stuff south to Sterling was uneconomic.
This was then stopped and the regional auctions were set up. The stuff was then shipped down to Sterling, bought by the auction house, and shiped back.
Then a few years ago RAMCO, amongst others, were given contracts to dispose of stuff. It still belongs to the MOD but they flog it on eBay or direct. On one occasion I bought a paint locker for £35 as Stores could not supply a new one (cost £495). The man said, you own it anyway.
Your lamps and toner simply uneconomic to ship to a disposal firm.
Many years ago I furnished my house with lots of surplus (old-style) furniture at about £20 a pop with a mahogony quarters desk at £80. Kinloss used to put these into the local auction with about 5 pieces per week and make IRO £100-150. Where the money went I know not but probably the COs Fund.
This was the most efficient way of clearing old stuff and also a good PR exercise for the local B&Bs that were furnished to MOD MQ standards. The cost of shipping the stuff south to Sterling was uneconomic.
This was then stopped and the regional auctions were set up. The stuff was then shipped down to Sterling, bought by the auction house, and shiped back.
Then a few years ago RAMCO, amongst others, were given contracts to dispose of stuff. It still belongs to the MOD but they flog it on eBay or direct. On one occasion I bought a paint locker for £35 as Stores could not supply a new one (cost £495). The man said, you own it anyway.
Your lamps and toner simply uneconomic to ship to a disposal firm.
MoD civil servants waste money - official
To add some balance to this, where I work, the JNCO throws perfectly good A4 folders/files etc in the bin, I take them out and re-use them.
I had to replace my 'phone when I first started work for reasons I can't recall. I was told to 'throw the old one in the bin'. Hey ho.
I am the only civvie amongst 20 J/SNCOs. And that's 'official'.
I had to replace my 'phone when I first started work for reasons I can't recall. I was told to 'throw the old one in the bin'. Hey ho.
I am the only civvie amongst 20 J/SNCOs. And that's 'official'.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: somewhere special
Age: 46
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not just civil servants that waste money, as Helol noted, blue suiters can be just as bad. Of course not all civvies and not all blue suits waste money. The thing that grips me is that on another thread some people think closing BBMF for the sake of £3m a year will magically save the MoD from its financial woe. There is grotesque waste across all public service - airborne artist merely found one notable example.
Red Arrows, BBMF are all high profile and easy targets. Changing the culture of how we operate will yield savings over and above the tiny percentage of the defence budget these actually consume (BBMF <0.01% - good VFM in my opinion)
H
Red Arrows, BBMF are all high profile and easy targets. Changing the culture of how we operate will yield savings over and above the tiny percentage of the defence budget these actually consume (BBMF <0.01% - good VFM in my opinion)
H
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
I sat in on quite a few RAF Courts Martial as a junior officer on my first tour; we all did as there was an ongoing problem of theft / misappropriation on a certain station.
A certain RAF Regiment NCO on said station was accused of theft. He allegedly went to a local scrapyard with the contents of a 4 ton truck. His defence was that he had been to sign out a truck and the one he chose was already full of "stuff", which he apparently was then told to "just get rid of" by the duty MT staff. He allegedly drove it to the scrappy and made a few bob out of it.
Unfortunately, the Board of Inquiry hadn't fully finished with the contents; it was parts of a recently crashed helicopter.
It came to light when a passing engineering officer spotted a military helicopter pilot's seat hanging from a tree, being used as a child's swing!
A certain RAF Regiment NCO on said station was accused of theft. He allegedly went to a local scrapyard with the contents of a 4 ton truck. His defence was that he had been to sign out a truck and the one he chose was already full of "stuff", which he apparently was then told to "just get rid of" by the duty MT staff. He allegedly drove it to the scrappy and made a few bob out of it.
Unfortunately, the Board of Inquiry hadn't fully finished with the contents; it was parts of a recently crashed helicopter.
It came to light when a passing engineering officer spotted a military helicopter pilot's seat hanging from a tree, being used as a child's swing!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
Not just the Brits either!
At a deployed base somewhere warm, we appropriated several items for our deployed FOB from the USAF dump. These included many thrown out "broken" computers - a couple of serviceable ones were built from the parts to suppliment our planning kit (unclassified of course).
At a deployed base somewhere warm, we appropriated several items for our deployed FOB from the USAF dump. These included many thrown out "broken" computers - a couple of serviceable ones were built from the parts to suppliment our planning kit (unclassified of course).
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
WD, you have probably foiled a complex plan by the Cousins to get computers to the Talibs. 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anything to do with Defence wastes money. That's why the Treasury hates BritMil plc.
All those bombs and bullets that could have been in Stores, but ... Oh no, the Military have to use them. And then they keep using fuel [OMG, so much fuel]. And the wear and tear on vehicles and aircraft - truly shocking. It's clearly time for a large meeting, with much note-taking and extravagant presentations, to make the military chappies realise that economy is the order of the day.
Is that my limo? Excuse me, must dash, important luncheon appointment.
All those bombs and bullets that could have been in Stores, but ... Oh no, the Military have to use them. And then they keep using fuel [OMG, so much fuel]. And the wear and tear on vehicles and aircraft - truly shocking. It's clearly time for a large meeting, with much note-taking and extravagant presentations, to make the military chappies realise that economy is the order of the day.
Is that my limo? Excuse me, must dash, important luncheon appointment.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bouncing around the Holding pattern
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Following on from Two Tone,
Has anybody else noticed that purchasing anything for "Defence" is like buying something for a "Wedding."
Instantly, with that title: Wedding Stationary, Defence IM, etc, and the price will multiply.
Terribly frustrating.
Has anybody else noticed that purchasing anything for "Defence" is like buying something for a "Wedding."
Instantly, with that title: Wedding Stationary, Defence IM, etc, and the price will multiply.
Terribly frustrating.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jungles of SW London
Age: 77
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has anybody else noticed that purchasing anything for "Defence" is like buying something for a "Wedding."
Instantly, with that title: Wedding Stationary, Defence IM, etc, and the price will multiply.
Terribly frustrating
Instantly, with that title: Wedding Stationary, Defence IM, etc, and the price will multiply.
Terribly frustrating
Very astute observation TurbineTooHot.
You might also add to that list anything bought from a 'Ships Chandlers' or a boat yard. 
I was working - for interest, not profit! - on a motor launch and wanted to replace the rubbing strip with something smaller and neater. The local boatyard wanted about £2/foot, but the industrial safety supplier near me would roll it out at £2/yard. 
Roger.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK.
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was told a story recently of a dept that decided to buy around 100 brand new chairs for the staff until the head boss came in and decided to bin the chairs because they were blue instead of black.
AA:
Would that were all. Read the Hercules, Nimrod and Chinook Accident threads:
The MOD wastes lives - fact!
MoD civil servants waste money - official
The MOD wastes lives - fact!
decided to bin the chairs because they were blue instead of black.
However, I have greater sympathy with other less obvious examples of "waste". For example, in 1999 very few people thought the C130 had an Active Dipping Sonar, but we were proved wrong by a certain Group Captain who insisted on buying the kit.
The RAF need more of his kind. Stand your ground and ignore those ****** civvies - what do they know about RAF aircraft anyway.
Unfortunately, he was thwarted as the company refused to waste their time supplying a quote; which brought a reprimand from said Officer to the Board. Bloody contractors, what do they know.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK/Philippines/Italy
Age: 73
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For example, in 1999 very few people thought the C130 had an Active Dipping Sonar, but we were proved wrong by a certain Group Captain who insisted on buying the kit.
That's a small Phantom!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Aylesbury
Age: 58
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"However, I have greater sympathy with other less obvious examples of "waste". For example, in 1999 very few people thought the C130 had an Active Dipping Sonar, but we were proved wrong by a certain Group Captain who insisted on buying the kit."
Please tell me thats a wind up....
a bloody Group Captain??? 
Can he be named and shamed or is he infamous enough already?
Please tell me thats a wind up....
a bloody Group Captain??? Can he be named and shamed or is he infamous enough already?
Please tell me thats a wind up....
a bloody Group Captain??? 
a bloody Group Captain???
A meeting was even convened on 30.5.96 in SY313 to discuss the general issue (RAF suppliers mis-managing stock / disposing of new stock knowing it was about to be fitted to aircraft undergoing conversion etc). He refused to turn up unless the chair was of the same equivalent rank. A civvy Asst Director did the business - unheard of in my experience. The minutes show 5 other officers (Wg Cdr, Cdr and 3 x Lt Cdr) were present. None stood up to the Gp Capt (the civvies did but he refused to speak to them) except the most junior Lt Cdr, who insisted the minutes record his scepticism about what the Gp Capt was saying. (That's being polite). That young officer got an MBE recently; good on you Nick.
Anyway, the upshot was a 4 year delay to an aircraft upgrade programme. To this day, I'm not sure the IPT or Users realise the kit was ready on time, but the suppliers got rid of it before it could be fitted. They probably blame the project office for the delay. The C130 sonar bit was a minor, hilarious aside because, as I said, we told the company not to quote, so avoiding that waste. The programme and the subject (deliberate waste) was later on the PAC hitlist and the subject of two very critical reports; both widely ignored by MoD.
Sorry, I get annoyed when I read the BBMF may be canned for the want of £3M. Generating £3M per year by avoiding waste, while maintaining capability, is a 5 minute job. Someone should get off their bum and write a short Business Case proposing such a genuine saving, with funds to be transferred to BBMF. I did make such a suggestion (implement the recommendations of the above reports, which is mandated policy anyway) but was told to wind my neck in by our 2 Star.
No, you couldn't make it up.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Finchampstead
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ShyTorque....re- RAF Regt SNCO...
The same guy, sometime later became a storebasher at the same station....he decided to 'invest' in a new business by 'purloining' flying kit from the stores by signing ie forging aircrew signatures in various Flying Clothing Books and the daily issue sheets (?) eventually building a good range of stock which he decided to sell at the RAF St Mawgan Open Day where he was spotted (sic - he was very spotty!) by the Feds. This led to closure of the stores at the secret helicopter base in Hampshire and the Feds went through every Flying Clothing Book, checking signatures with the aircrew, checking the whereabouts of three pairs of aircrew specs, four pairs of flying boots, five flying suits, fifteen pairs of flying gloves etc etc. Aircrew who said they 'Gave them to someone who dug their trench at the latest taceval' or had given them to the groundcrew cos they were 'good blokes' etc were listed and Unit Inquiries were held whereupon some 47 (I think) aircrew persons were found likely to be Court Martialled!!
Luckily the authorities thought better of it.
Anyone who was about at the time will probably recall the unusual attention as to what the gate guards were wearing on guard duty and where did they get them from ie flying gloves, flying polo neck shirts and flying boots!
I don't know what punishment this guy received for this thievery, but several months later I saw him enter the camp driving a Council skip lorry! Perhaps he was going for the big one!
Luckily the authorities thought better of it.
Anyone who was about at the time will probably recall the unusual attention as to what the gate guards were wearing on guard duty and where did they get them from ie flying gloves, flying polo neck shirts and flying boots!
I don't know what punishment this guy received for this thievery, but several months later I saw him enter the camp driving a Council skip lorry! Perhaps he was going for the big one!