Haiti - a sign?
Yes, Him
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A week late. Good effort.
If a number of these RFA/RN ships are laid up, is it not beyond the bounds of possibility to keep one of them stored up with disaster relief kit and to be on, say, 48hrs notice to sail? Not as if they're doing anything else.
No doubt there are nautical maintenance issues involved, but it ain't rocket science is it?
If a number of these RFA/RN ships are laid up, is it not beyond the bounds of possibility to keep one of them stored up with disaster relief kit and to be on, say, 48hrs notice to sail? Not as if they're doing anything else.
No doubt there are nautical maintenance issues involved, but it ain't rocket science is it?
Gainsey, I'll bite.
If someone said to you, "I know, we have a few aircraft sitting around in storage at the moment & we need a quick push to relieve the pressure on the troops in 'Stan, lets use them", you'd probably respond by wondering where the manpower was coming from, what about their training/ currency on type, what about the maintenance, what about the logistics support issues, where's the money coming from, if we borrow people to fill this task wo is going to back fill their other tasks, what about harmony rules etc etc.
Same applies to ships that are laid up. Ships at 48 hours notice need to be fully manned, trained & maintained.
Of course, this sort of capability should be available, (lets call it an Amphibious Task Group & then it might be availble for other maritime tasks, too) but we don't have the money for it to be permanently at 48 hours notice.
If someone said to you, "I know, we have a few aircraft sitting around in storage at the moment & we need a quick push to relieve the pressure on the troops in 'Stan, lets use them", you'd probably respond by wondering where the manpower was coming from, what about their training/ currency on type, what about the maintenance, what about the logistics support issues, where's the money coming from, if we borrow people to fill this task wo is going to back fill their other tasks, what about harmony rules etc etc.
Same applies to ships that are laid up. Ships at 48 hours notice need to be fully manned, trained & maintained.
Of course, this sort of capability should be available, (lets call it an Amphibious Task Group & then it might be availble for other maritime tasks, too) but we don't have the money for it to be permanently at 48 hours notice.
Yes, Him
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Andy, I'll bite back.
In my day, (pulls on slippers) we would have just done it.
Then again, we had the manpower,
we didn't need to borrow folk,
we were trained,
we had the kit and it was generally fit for purpose.
WTF is harmony, summat for bandsmen?
Time for me meds.
In my day, (pulls on slippers) we would have just done it.
Then again, we had the manpower,
we didn't need to borrow folk,
we were trained,
we had the kit and it was generally fit for purpose.
WTF is harmony, summat for bandsmen?
Time for me meds.
Red On, Green On
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Andyy is quite correct - anything much less than a month's notice is effectively a fully-manned, fully-serviceable vessel.
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Bob A, announces support to Haiti. The deployment of RFA Largs Bay loaded with supplies due to sail in 3 weeks. Recce team to deploy by C130 very soon. Also RMPs to protect FCO staff.
Is this the tip of an iceberg with more personnel to deploy once recce team reports back?
Is this the tip of an iceberg with more personnel to deploy once recce team reports back?
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A C-130 your kidding me!! 3 million people to be feed and watered on what, 5 maybe 6 pallets of kit.. I know its only a recce..but isnt it a week late already! Surely we dont need to do our own, just take whats asked for!!
There was a reason the UN wanted C-17s in Banda Acha, They carry s***loads of kit in one go..and can operate unaided for a week or so.
The Pakistanis turned c-130s away durring thier earthquake relief ops, as they took up valuable pan space!!
How many C-130 herk loads do the movers get in return when RAF C-17s carry NATO kit for other countrys..
If the herrick airbridge cant cope without a C-17 there is something seriously wrong!!!..
Thinks " May have answered my own question there!!!" ok rambling finished crawling back under my rock!
There was a reason the UN wanted C-17s in Banda Acha, They carry s***loads of kit in one go..and can operate unaided for a week or so.
The Pakistanis turned c-130s away durring thier earthquake relief ops, as they took up valuable pan space!!
How many C-130 herk loads do the movers get in return when RAF C-17s carry NATO kit for other countrys..
If the herrick airbridge cant cope without a C-17 there is something seriously wrong!!!..
Thinks " May have answered my own question there!!!" ok rambling finished crawling back under my rock!
Last edited by collbar; 20th Jan 2010 at 15:00. Reason: jumping to conclusions!
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As much as the deployment of Largs Bay in 3 weeks is a fundamentally good thing - I cannot help but think that this is not so much an unbridled gesture of humanity on behalf of the country - because if it was they could have announced last week that they were prepping it...
...but rather the gesture-politics of a corrupt politician who has been embarrassed into it.
...but rather the gesture-politics of a corrupt politician who has been embarrassed into it.
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From Truth Central; Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Military Operations | Royal Navy ship to deploy to Haiti loaded with aid
The UK will send a Royal Fleet Auxiliary supply ship loaded with aid to help with the relief operation in Haiti, International Development Secretary Douglas Alexander has announced today, Wednesday 20 January 2010.
The ship, RFA Largs Bay, is being despatched at the request of the United Nations and will sail from the UK carrying relief supplies that will be needed by the people of Haiti in the weeks and months ahead.
The ship will have the capacity to carry supplies provided by the Department for International Development (DFID) and British and international NGOs (non-governmental organisations), as well as goods purchased with donations from the British public in response to the Disasters Emergency Committee appeal.
The ship, which is due to sail before the end of the month from Marchwood, Southampton, is expected to stay in the region for some weeks to help the UN ferry bulk supplies around small outlying ports in Haiti.
The UK Government has already promised Ł20m to help those affected by the earthquake.
The ship, RFA Largs Bay, is being despatched at the request of the United Nations and will sail from the UK carrying relief supplies that will be needed by the people of Haiti in the weeks and months ahead.
The ship will have the capacity to carry supplies provided by the Department for International Development (DFID) and British and international NGOs (non-governmental organisations), as well as goods purchased with donations from the British public in response to the Disasters Emergency Committee appeal.
The ship, which is due to sail before the end of the month from Marchwood, Southampton, is expected to stay in the region for some weeks to help the UN ferry bulk supplies around small outlying ports in Haiti.
The UK Government has already promised Ł20m to help those affected by the earthquake.
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Its at about 5:20 that the PM mentions that the RAF are on their way
BBC News - In Full: PM's questions and counter-terror statement
BBC News - In Full: PM's questions and counter-terror statement
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A Royal Navy flotilla that might have provided relief in the first hours after the Haitian earthquake was withdrawn weeks before the disaster because of budget constraints, the Ministry of Defence said last night.
Naval sources told The Times that the unpublicised cut marked the first time that the Royal Navy has had a significant gap in cover in the Caribbean since the 17th century.
The force, which usually includes a Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel and a frigate, is deployed in Caribbean waters to provide support to British overseas territories, particularly during the May-December hurricane season, and to support Britain’s counter-narcotics role in the region.
During the summer, Prince William was deployed on board the frigate Iron Duke in the Caribbean.
However, the fleet replenishment ship Fort George was ordered back to Britain in October and the Iron Duke arrived back last month.
Neither was replaced, though the Navy has previously maintained a rolling deployment of Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels in the region to provide disaster relief. When Fort George arrived in the Caribbean in June it was as a replacement to HMS Largs Bay, which had provided cover in the region since the end of the previous hurricane season in November 2008.
Naval sources said that the vessels could have provided rapid assistance in the chaotic first 48 hours after the earthquake. Fort George has a large flight deck and can carry three helicopters while Iron Duke has a Lynx helicopter.
Fort George is designated as one of the Navy’s disaster relief vessels. “The ship holds stores and equipment to conduct humanitarian assistance and disaster relief ashore; with the capacity to evacuate victims if required,” according to the Royal Navy website.
During its deployment, the crew of Fort George undertook disaster relief exercises in Anguilla, the Turks and Caicos Islands and Montserrat.
In a statement last night the Ministry of Defence said: “The Royal Navy maintains a maritime presence in the Caribbean to reassure overseas territories. This task is mandatory during the hurricane season — when our assets are most likely to be required — which runs from June 1 to November 30.
“This year, as part of a package of savings measures identified to enable the MoD to remain within ’09-10 budgets, cover outside the hurricane period has been temporarily withdrawn.”
Naval sources told The Times that the unpublicised cut marked the first time that the Royal Navy has had a significant gap in cover in the Caribbean since the 17th century.
The force, which usually includes a Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel and a frigate, is deployed in Caribbean waters to provide support to British overseas territories, particularly during the May-December hurricane season, and to support Britain’s counter-narcotics role in the region.
During the summer, Prince William was deployed on board the frigate Iron Duke in the Caribbean.
However, the fleet replenishment ship Fort George was ordered back to Britain in October and the Iron Duke arrived back last month.
Neither was replaced, though the Navy has previously maintained a rolling deployment of Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels in the region to provide disaster relief. When Fort George arrived in the Caribbean in June it was as a replacement to HMS Largs Bay, which had provided cover in the region since the end of the previous hurricane season in November 2008.
Naval sources said that the vessels could have provided rapid assistance in the chaotic first 48 hours after the earthquake. Fort George has a large flight deck and can carry three helicopters while Iron Duke has a Lynx helicopter.
Fort George is designated as one of the Navy’s disaster relief vessels. “The ship holds stores and equipment to conduct humanitarian assistance and disaster relief ashore; with the capacity to evacuate victims if required,” according to the Royal Navy website.
During its deployment, the crew of Fort George undertook disaster relief exercises in Anguilla, the Turks and Caicos Islands and Montserrat.
In a statement last night the Ministry of Defence said: “The Royal Navy maintains a maritime presence in the Caribbean to reassure overseas territories. This task is mandatory during the hurricane season — when our assets are most likely to be required — which runs from June 1 to November 30.
“This year, as part of a package of savings measures identified to enable the MoD to remain within ’09-10 budgets, cover outside the hurricane period has been temporarily withdrawn.”
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Press briefing by US commander, from what I heard:
120 flights into Port au Prince
1400 delayed
10,000 personel offshore
68 helicopters using ships as a base
United States Southern Command (USSOUTHCOM) - Fact File
120 flights into Port au Prince
1400 delayed
10,000 personel offshore
68 helicopters using ships as a base
United States Southern Command (USSOUTHCOM) - Fact File
More like 20,000 troops/ships crew on site.....not counting those based outside Haiti/DR.
24th MEU (less Osprey's) enroute to reinforce 22nd MEU (with CH-53's).
USAF C-17's from all over the country are being called in.....even the training guys from Altus AFB are stuck in now.
That means two Amphib Groups, One Carrier Task force, various indepenent USN and USCG ships and aircraft are involed now along with USAF airlift assets.
At the risk of sounding snooty....which I am not.....really.....the USN effort almost equals the entire number of ships in the active RN Fleet doesn't it?
Makes one understand how drastic the RN cuts have been over the years.
Not only was the RFA and Frigate group pulled out but did the Falklands group go un-manned this year as well? At what point will they realize they have cut too deep?
24th MEU (less Osprey's) enroute to reinforce 22nd MEU (with CH-53's).
USAF C-17's from all over the country are being called in.....even the training guys from Altus AFB are stuck in now.
That means two Amphib Groups, One Carrier Task force, various indepenent USN and USCG ships and aircraft are involed now along with USAF airlift assets.
At the risk of sounding snooty....which I am not.....really.....the USN effort almost equals the entire number of ships in the active RN Fleet doesn't it?
Makes one understand how drastic the RN cuts have been over the years.
Not only was the RFA and Frigate group pulled out but did the Falklands group go un-manned this year as well? At what point will they realize they have cut too deep?
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At the risk of sounding snooty....which I am not.....really.....the USN effort almost equals the entire number of ships in the active RN Fleet doesn't it?
collbar - many very good reasons to recce - I'd not want to deploy anyone without it.
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Saw a video of yanks running around with box`s of drinking water - where I come from we drilled holes and installed manual pumps or windmills - yanks might have acres of kit but seems they are short on DF (common sense)
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To drill holes you need geo survey, testing, drilling rig, drill team, pumps, filtration, treatment, storage. You then need to distribute.
To distribute bottled water, you need to move and distribute.
I know which one I'd rely on in the 1st phase and which one I'd look at once I stopped the population dehydrating.
To distribute bottled water, you need to move and distribute.
I know which one I'd rely on in the 1st phase and which one I'd look at once I stopped the population dehydrating.
Aviator Extraordinaire
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Saw a video of yanks running around with box`s of drinking water - where I come from we drilled holes and installed manual pumps or windmills - yanks might have acres of kit but seems they are short on DF (common sense)
Not to mention what would happen to this newly discovered water well site when the aftershocks hit.
For some reason I don't believe that it is us Yanks that are short on common sense regarding this matter.