FAA Pilot Wings for Everyone
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My question is not why it is like wings, but why period?
Given the stretched budgets these days, why go to the expense of producing a badge and then the costs involved in adding those to the uniforms and the papertrail that no doubt will be produced along the way............
Bar adding a trinket that may appear enticing to new recruits, what real purpose does it fulfil?
That said the RAF reintroducing the Eagle all be it at a time when things were not so bleak could be construed as the same thing........
My biggest WHY must be for the rank of J/T, could anyone here tell me the reason for removing the J/T rank and replacing it with that of an SAC Tech ???
As far as I can see bar the Tech trade going dual trade, something in the Civilian world (indeed we do more than just the two so it still is not compatable) we have done for years, and something that was also current under the J/T rank, so what was the point of doing it?
You would need to replace the rank badges with new as the J/T's were promoted or left the service, so bar the outlay of the badges, everything pertaining to the rank structure from QR's down would have to be ammended or reprinted to reflect the additional rank and the demise of the other, I would hate to put a ball park figure on the costs involved, but you could no doubt of bought a lot of sweeties with the money squandered in these eyes.
Given the stretched budgets these days, why go to the expense of producing a badge and then the costs involved in adding those to the uniforms and the papertrail that no doubt will be produced along the way............
Bar adding a trinket that may appear enticing to new recruits, what real purpose does it fulfil?
That said the RAF reintroducing the Eagle all be it at a time when things were not so bleak could be construed as the same thing........
My biggest WHY must be for the rank of J/T, could anyone here tell me the reason for removing the J/T rank and replacing it with that of an SAC Tech ???
As far as I can see bar the Tech trade going dual trade, something in the Civilian world (indeed we do more than just the two so it still is not compatable) we have done for years, and something that was also current under the J/T rank, so what was the point of doing it?
You would need to replace the rank badges with new as the J/T's were promoted or left the service, so bar the outlay of the badges, everything pertaining to the rank structure from QR's down would have to be ammended or reprinted to reflect the additional rank and the demise of the other, I would hate to put a ball park figure on the costs involved, but you could no doubt of bought a lot of sweeties with the money squandered in these eyes.
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jim2673,
You miss the point. What identifies us as RN is our uniform, the same uniform that we all wear. You'll note that, unlike our RAF collegues, RN aircrew don't wear wings on No3 uniform. I for one am proud of the fact that, as a branch, we are far more joined up then the RAF for example
The issue here is the use of pilots wings for everyone. I dont wear a Maroon beret because I've worked with the Parachute Regt. Why? Because I haven't earnt it. The same applies to wings IMHO.
There is nothing wrong with being proud to wear insignia that you have worked hard to earn.
Are you saying that other members of the fleet air arm haven't earnt the right to be recognized as FAA. You are only a stick jockey and if you hung around once you've parked your cab you'd realise where the real hard work id done. You can train a monkey to ride a bike but have you ever seen one fix a puncture.
Personally i like the idea but not using wings as the first opinion it brings to mind is what a c#@k
You miss the point. What identifies us as RN is our uniform, the same uniform that we all wear. You'll note that, unlike our RAF collegues, RN aircrew don't wear wings on No3 uniform. I for one am proud of the fact that, as a branch, we are far more joined up then the RAF for example
The issue here is the use of pilots wings for everyone. I dont wear a Maroon beret because I've worked with the Parachute Regt. Why? Because I haven't earnt it. The same applies to wings IMHO.
There is nothing wrong with being proud to wear insignia that you have worked hard to earn.
Are you saying that other members of the fleet air arm haven't earnt the right to be recognized as FAA. You are only a stick jockey and if you hung around once you've parked your cab you'd realise where the real hard work id done. You can train a monkey to ride a bike but have you ever seen one fix a puncture.
Personally i like the idea but not using wings as the first opinion it brings to mind is what a c#@k
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SARMONKEY
If you have to ask you have forgotten what a fart is like. Did I mean that? Perhaps I have got it the wrong way round. Happens in the RN you know..................
Now, what does one do when faced with a time-critical choice between numbers 2 and 3 on your excellent list earlier?
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I take it that the premise "all of one Company" is a bit of spin to the FAA then?
Personally I always thought that they gave away fish-head wings anyway.....compensation for loss of iPods as it were.
Personally I always thought that they gave away fish-head wings anyway.....compensation for loss of iPods as it were.
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So to summarise the thread so far:
FAA pilots don't like the idea of their precious wings being 'given away'. FAA engineers don't like it because it would make them look like pilots who are, to a man, cocks, whilst real men mend the machines once they've landed. Lookers would feel a little strange wearing two different types of wings. The crabs can't see what all the fuss is about but are convinced that everyone in the FAA at some point failed Loadmaster training.
We all agree that ipod-gate was a national disgrace, but can't really see how a few badges, at great expense, or otherwise, would solve the problem. Which we don't think exists.
I agree with everyone.
FAA pilots don't like the idea of their precious wings being 'given away'. FAA engineers don't like it because it would make them look like pilots who are, to a man, cocks, whilst real men mend the machines once they've landed. Lookers would feel a little strange wearing two different types of wings. The crabs can't see what all the fuss is about but are convinced that everyone in the FAA at some point failed Loadmaster training.
We all agree that ipod-gate was a national disgrace, but can't really see how a few badges, at great expense, or otherwise, would solve the problem. Which we don't think exists.
I agree with everyone.
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ORCA
Oh yes indeedy!
as opposed to
Used to be called grubbers as I recall - good men to the last grub!!
Now moving house and changing name by deed poll!
FAA engineers don't like it because it would make them look like pilots who are, to a man, cocks
as opposed to
the real men mend the machines once they've landed.
Now moving house and changing name by deed poll!
There was a time when the different branches had different coloured stripes and Wrens wore blue stripes, blue eyeshadow and stockings. Sadly the RN has regressed, pay 2000 was the thin end of the softwood wedge and years of moaning by the warfare community about having a "pwo" badge just like the spams, have led them to this point. Although I have 5000 hours on fixed and rotary chairs, I for one would not wish to wear said badge for all the reasons so eloquently put above. After all, WAFUs are just another weapon system and an extension of the Ship's influence in the FACA!
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There are still Grubbers in the FAA.... In the Merlin world the Grubbers do the M trade.... as well as looking after the ground equipment. Greenies - they do the electrical stuff as well as taking care of stores demands etc.....The Greenies also load the weapons (Since the demise of the Bombheads branch) Pinkies are the Radar / Radio fellas and on top of that they normally look after the Survival Equipment - Servicing your Helmets, Goon Bags etc.
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This just highlights how out of touch the upper echelons of the RN really are. In a culture of salami slicing where the fabric of Service life is continually being gnawed away, surely our limited finances could be better spent. We insist on dishing out FRI's to FAA branches that currently have limited external recruitment, whilst overlooking those that are haemorrhaging at an increasing rate of knots, due to an extremely buoyant and lucrative civilian labour market.
If 2SL and his cronies are that misguided and/or ignorant to believe that issuing a cheap branch broach is a financially sound idea that mitigates against diabolical and disjointed government policies, then perhaps the FAA would be better served by being consumed within the Light Blue.
Gimmicks like this only alienate those with purpose, whilst satisfying the deadwood that we could well do without.
My first post because I am bl**dy annoyed.
If 2SL and his cronies are that misguided and/or ignorant to believe that issuing a cheap branch broach is a financially sound idea that mitigates against diabolical and disjointed government policies, then perhaps the FAA would be better served by being consumed within the Light Blue.
Gimmicks like this only alienate those with purpose, whilst satisfying the deadwood that we could well do without.
My first post because I am bl**dy annoyed.
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This just highlights how out of touch the upper echelons of the RN really are. In a culture of salami slicing where the fabric of Service life is continually being gnawed away, surely our limited finances could be better spent. We insist on dishing out FRI's to FAA branches that currently have limited external recruitment, whilst overlooking those that are haemorrhaging at an increasing rate of knots, due to an extremely buoyant and lucrative civilian labour market.
To bloody right SLSHAG I'm PVRing May of this year. Branch manager only gave me EC5 and have no intention of staying beyond May 2011 my reasons as follows:
1. Feed up of cuts by the back door civilianisation of 2nd line DARA/DE&S Roll back.
2, Intro of AV trade and lack of specialist knowledge, trade skill loss.
3. CPOAEM earning more that CPOAET no branch manager over the past 10 years has had the bollocks to grasp and run with this issue.PAY2000 in general and the general complete fcuking of the Artificer cadre.
4.Changing of flying pay to daily rate fror FM, now changed back because the clowns at fleet realised they fcuked up but it's OK for SO1/SO2 to sit behind desks drawing F Pay.What did this achieve other than disenfranchise a lot of experienced people for whatsavings £200K?
5. AE branch managers making LAEM's LAET'S at the stroke of a pen. POAEMs not being allowed to transfer to the POAET stream unless they has HNC/HND. What wast the point of me doing 4 year at Lee on Tiffs course 86-90?
6.Lack of promotion unlees you've done a Lx Flt SMR job.
7. RN wasting money on badges and initiatives no one wants.
8 Limited career progression due to Med Cat.
9. CHF getting Merlin 3 and threat of a move to Culdrose.
10. Divisional Officers not knowing the men (3 in total) in his division.
11. Finally and not least AE Branch Manager only offering EC5 instead of EC10+ I have to leave at some point EC5 is not showing me any loyalty and 41 is a better age to leave than 45. Not going to wait for promised "Jam Tomorrow" from the AE Branch Manager.
To bloody right SLSHAG I'm PVRing May of this year. Branch manager only gave me EC5 and have no intention of staying beyond May 2011 my reasons as follows:
1. Feed up of cuts by the back door civilianisation of 2nd line DARA/DE&S Roll back.
2, Intro of AV trade and lack of specialist knowledge, trade skill loss.
3. CPOAEM earning more that CPOAET no branch manager over the past 10 years has had the bollocks to grasp and run with this issue.PAY2000 in general and the general complete fcuking of the Artificer cadre.
4.Changing of flying pay to daily rate fror FM, now changed back because the clowns at fleet realised they fcuked up but it's OK for SO1/SO2 to sit behind desks drawing F Pay.What did this achieve other than disenfranchise a lot of experienced people for whatsavings £200K?
5. AE branch managers making LAEM's LAET'S at the stroke of a pen. POAEMs not being allowed to transfer to the POAET stream unless they has HNC/HND. What wast the point of me doing 4 year at Lee on Tiffs course 86-90?
6.Lack of promotion unlees you've done a Lx Flt SMR job.
7. RN wasting money on badges and initiatives no one wants.
8 Limited career progression due to Med Cat.
9. CHF getting Merlin 3 and threat of a move to Culdrose.
10. Divisional Officers not knowing the men (3 in total) in his division.
11. Finally and not least AE Branch Manager only offering EC5 instead of EC10+ I have to leave at some point EC5 is not showing me any loyalty and 41 is a better age to leave than 45. Not going to wait for promised "Jam Tomorrow" from the AE Branch Manager.
Last edited by jim2673; 17th Jan 2010 at 15:03.
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Why doesn't everyone in the RN have lots of thick gold rings on their sleeves, like 2SL etc? Surely that would improve corporate spirit, whatever that is.
Perhaps if everyone ends up looking the same it'll add a welcome spot of lightheartedness to driving your boats around, as nobody will be quite sure if the chap doing all the shouting is actually the captain or not.
By the way, it's BROOCH for a pin/emblem, BROACH is when you surface or want to name a type of cutting tool.
Dave
Perhaps if everyone ends up looking the same it'll add a welcome spot of lightheartedness to driving your boats around, as nobody will be quite sure if the chap doing all the shouting is actually the captain or not.
By the way, it's BROOCH for a pin/emblem, BROACH is when you surface or want to name a type of cutting tool.
Dave
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10. Divisional Officers not knowing the men (3 in total) in his division.