Defence is at a crossroads - The Times
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Defence is at a crossroads - The Times
Anyone read this today? Defence is at a crossroads – with no signpost | Allan Mallinson - Times Online
Just a couple of lines caught my eye:
Then I read the following about the author:
And I thought...C0ck!
If Mr Mallinson is reading, I quote from Sir Hugh "Stuffy" Dowding's biography: "From 1938 Dowding was advised of five separate retirement dates, but each one was rescinded for various reasons, therefore, his replacement in November 1940 as AOC in C Fighter Command, when flush with success in the Battle of Britain was seen as a snub by many, although it had in fact been planned." He had been AOCinC Fighter Command for 4 years from 14 Jul 36 and was 58 years old, did you expect him to stay AOCinC for ever???
Just a couple of lines caught my eye:
The RAF, too, must transform itself from a fast-jet flying club into a tactical air force. It must shift its focus to helicopters and transport aircraft, whose pilots are the real light-blue heroes of current operations. But instead the Eurofighter, a ruinously expensive air-superiority fighter, is being subtly rebranded as a “fighter-bomber” — that’s like putting a roof-rack on a Ferrari and calling it a family car. This is no way to deliver fire support to ground troops.
We used to be ruthless in identifying failure and taking corrective action; it was one of the reasons that our relatively small Armed Forces had disproportionate effect. Even success could be followed by savagery, as Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding discovered in 1940, sacked after winning the Battle of Britain because Churchill was persuaded that others could have won it better. We need that spirit back, and quickly.
Allan Mallinson is the author of The Making of the British Army, and a former army officer
If Mr Mallinson is reading, I quote from Sir Hugh "Stuffy" Dowding's biography: "From 1938 Dowding was advised of five separate retirement dates, but each one was rescinded for various reasons, therefore, his replacement in November 1940 as AOC in C Fighter Command, when flush with success in the Battle of Britain was seen as a snub by many, although it had in fact been planned." He had been AOCinC Fighter Command for 4 years from 14 Jul 36 and was 58 years old, did you expect him to stay AOCinC for ever???
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The RAF, too, must transform itself from a fast-jet flying club into a tactical air force. It must shift its focus to helicopters and transport aircraft, whose pilots are the real light-blue heroes of current operations. But instead the Eurofighter, a ruinously expensive air-superiority fighter, is being subtly rebranded as a “fighter-bomber” — that’s like putting a roof-rack on a Ferrari and calling it a family car. This is no way to deliver fire support to ground troops.
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This chap is a perfect example of why the Royal Air Force was created in the first place. He doesn't consider the Air to be a battle space, sure there are many individuals in the Army that do but as an organisation they just want to be moved from A to B. That's all well and good today but what will we face tomorrow?
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What Mallinson has been quoted as writing above is simplsitic tosh that does not reflect the realities of what has happened and continues to happen over the last 2 decades to the RAF. While it is true that the recent wars have exposed our under investement in both battlefield rotary and strategic transport, anyone who analyses what has happened to the RAF in that time since GW1 can see how UK has divested itself of much signifcant FJ hardware (and Nimrods - very sad for a maritime nation) all of which means we are no longer a potential big player in a "proper" war of the future. We will have difficulty defending our own vital interests when the need arises. While counter terrorism requiring much brave land effort is the flavour of the moment - it will not always be so and our lack of standing firepower - particularly in the air (and no doubt on the sea) will either severley restrict our future politcal options, and most certainly mean we are a mere bit player at the political and military decision making tables - How sad ...its taken only 70 years to go from the World's only superpower - to a 3rd world player. and yet all this when the very people who make up our armed services are simply the best the nation can produce and have kept Britain "up front" despite the withering of all our other instititutions.
Mallinson really does need to take a wider and strategic long term view and not be mislead by todays (important) but nonetheless narrow requirements. He certainly should refrain from churning out populist and simplistic rubbish that is not worthy of anyone who wants to see the UK continue to carry a punch equitable with its place in the world. FJ and ISTAR defensive and offensive air power will always be vital to a major conflict and we under invest in it at our future peril.....
Cheers
A long term and proud rote!!
Mallinson really does need to take a wider and strategic long term view and not be mislead by todays (important) but nonetheless narrow requirements. He certainly should refrain from churning out populist and simplistic rubbish that is not worthy of anyone who wants to see the UK continue to carry a punch equitable with its place in the world. FJ and ISTAR defensive and offensive air power will always be vital to a major conflict and we under invest in it at our future peril.....
Cheers
A long term and proud rote!!
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The RAF, too, must transform itself from a fast-jet flying club into a tactical air force. It must shift its focus to helicopters and transport aircraft,
Everything is being done to "patch the holes" for current operations at the cost of the Forces ability to fight any conflict. It is a short sighted, politically motivated mistake that needs to be stopped immediately. Either we commit to fighting in sandy places while maintaining a proper ability to fight when and where needed in the mode that fight requires or we do not fight in sandy places. Right now we're close to being defenceless if Belgium and Holland gang up on us.
[Edit]
Tallsar: I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one un-hypnotized by our "leaders"...
[/Edit]
Agree with Tallsar - did we not go thru the same ruinous process during the inter-war years? Massive underinvestment in fighters etc as we didn't think we'd have another war - then WHAM! Here comes your Black Swan event. WW2.
Today's wretched announcement of more 'Battle Winning Chinooks' taking the fleet to 70 is very short sighted in my opinion. Why, if Gordon Brown is talking of reducing our commitment to Afghan by 2011, is the MoD investing in another 22 odd Chinooks that won't be delivered until 2012-14??
This short sighted focus is being driven by the Army who have ditched all their long term plans in favour of fighting THE war as apposed to retaining extra capabilities to fight A war?!!
It's these illogical short term budgetary constraints that end up causing more angst down stream as potential adversaries decide it may be worth having a pop at under resourced nations (Think China etc who yesterday tested another satellite killing missile, as they have realized that we are totally dependent on GPS for all our weapons and navigation)
This Government has ruined the Military and the wider country. Good riddance come May although the rot is that bad it will take years to fix no matter who's in power!
Today's wretched announcement of more 'Battle Winning Chinooks' taking the fleet to 70 is very short sighted in my opinion. Why, if Gordon Brown is talking of reducing our commitment to Afghan by 2011, is the MoD investing in another 22 odd Chinooks that won't be delivered until 2012-14??
This short sighted focus is being driven by the Army who have ditched all their long term plans in favour of fighting THE war as apposed to retaining extra capabilities to fight A war?!!
It's these illogical short term budgetary constraints that end up causing more angst down stream as potential adversaries decide it may be worth having a pop at under resourced nations (Think China etc who yesterday tested another satellite killing missile, as they have realized that we are totally dependent on GPS for all our weapons and navigation)
This Government has ruined the Military and the wider country. Good riddance come May although the rot is that bad it will take years to fix no matter who's in power!
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I am pleased to see that we are on frequency together - and I trust our seniors are fighting to the death (behind closed doors of course!!!) to save our nation's fighting capability.
Sadly I believe that none of our political parties have the policies or the culture anymore to understand why defence spedning is so vital to the nations future and their own poltical influence - too much softy "liberal" UK focussed politics has become received wisdom and assumes all nations wish to just talk and not squeeze us out of our privelged positon as a top nation (if the opportunity arises). At the same time they persist in pandering to the belief that the majority of the nation will only vote for them if they pour yet more buckets of cash into the inefficient NHS and social security systems (backed by the infamous HR Act of course!). A less than 10% "efficiency saving"in the NHS would prevent any budget cuts in Defence!! We have a culture where people are encouraged to be sick rather than defend their personal and national interests (Rant - soz!!)
I always remember my early officer training defence strategy lecture about the rules and politics of war. ..."Never mirror image" - ie never believe a potential enemy or competitor will think and act the same as you"
Have we forgotten why Galtieri and his Junta thought the FI could be attacked ---defence cuts send signals particualry to other countries who do not hold our views or our best interests at heart....and we will rue the consequencies...unlike '82, we don't have the firepower (and maybe even the willpower) anymore!!
Cheers
PS - I am also somewhat outraged at Mallinsons's allusion that the FJ part of the RAF is a "flying club" Whatttttttt????? several generations of Tornado, Harrier, SHAR, Jaguar (and no doubt Typhoon soon - a rhyme!!) have demonstrated their world class combat professionalism (and paid the ultimate price) in recent decades - I am beginning to think he has his head stuck up his a**e)
Sadly I believe that none of our political parties have the policies or the culture anymore to understand why defence spedning is so vital to the nations future and their own poltical influence - too much softy "liberal" UK focussed politics has become received wisdom and assumes all nations wish to just talk and not squeeze us out of our privelged positon as a top nation (if the opportunity arises). At the same time they persist in pandering to the belief that the majority of the nation will only vote for them if they pour yet more buckets of cash into the inefficient NHS and social security systems (backed by the infamous HR Act of course!). A less than 10% "efficiency saving"in the NHS would prevent any budget cuts in Defence!! We have a culture where people are encouraged to be sick rather than defend their personal and national interests (Rant - soz!!)
I always remember my early officer training defence strategy lecture about the rules and politics of war. ..."Never mirror image" - ie never believe a potential enemy or competitor will think and act the same as you"
Have we forgotten why Galtieri and his Junta thought the FI could be attacked ---defence cuts send signals particualry to other countries who do not hold our views or our best interests at heart....and we will rue the consequencies...unlike '82, we don't have the firepower (and maybe even the willpower) anymore!!
Cheers
PS - I am also somewhat outraged at Mallinsons's allusion that the FJ part of the RAF is a "flying club" Whatttttttt????? several generations of Tornado, Harrier, SHAR, Jaguar (and no doubt Typhoon soon - a rhyme!!) have demonstrated their world class combat professionalism (and paid the ultimate price) in recent decades - I am beginning to think he has his head stuck up his a**e)
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Simply redirect the 900 odd million we give each year to India to fund their schools and let them pay for it themselves out of the 10 C-17 budget funding....
redirect the funds we give to Russia etc too, in fact all overseas aid.
Close the whole department that deals with car taxation and put the cost onto fuel, at a stroke you will have freed up billions, cut down on bureaucracy, got rid of all those civil servants, rid the country of the no doubt billions we lose on car tax dodgers and allowed a fairer system of taxation.........
As for the the UKs illegal immigrants when arrested if they cannot provide any form of identification to allow their deportation, arrest them, transfer them and pop them on some uninhabited desolate Island up the top of scotland as a detention centre...... no walls just several miles of nothingness to swim across.... give em some sheep, cattle, building materials and a new way of life......... The Auzzies put em on an island so should we........ they will soon want to leave.
redirect the funds we give to Russia etc too, in fact all overseas aid.
Close the whole department that deals with car taxation and put the cost onto fuel, at a stroke you will have freed up billions, cut down on bureaucracy, got rid of all those civil servants, rid the country of the no doubt billions we lose on car tax dodgers and allowed a fairer system of taxation.........
As for the the UKs illegal immigrants when arrested if they cannot provide any form of identification to allow their deportation, arrest them, transfer them and pop them on some uninhabited desolate Island up the top of scotland as a detention centre...... no walls just several miles of nothingness to swim across.... give em some sheep, cattle, building materials and a new way of life......... The Auzzies put em on an island so should we........ they will soon want to leave.
Tallsar, AA - hear hear!
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the Forces, politicians and public do not see this. We are back in the Wilderness Years, fighting a questionable campaign with a questionable strategy. To put all the country's eggs in one basket is short sighted, lacking any appreciation of military capability or effective intelligence in terms of defence strategy and planning.
Far from those who advocate a balanced military with a credible firepower capability - Typhoon, JSF AND armour, carriers, destroyers etc - being Cold War warriors with no place in the contemporary operating environment, those who repeatedly stick their head in the sand and constantly argue for the disestablishment of anything that doesn't fit in with their own agendas has no place in the defence of this country are frankly a bigger threat to this country than the Taliban. Whilst not a fan of Jock Stirrup, it is for this reason that the Army must not be allowed to dominate the very senior levels of Defence, and the politicians must be told in words of less than one syllable the likely consequences of their short sighted actions.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the Forces, politicians and public do not see this. We are back in the Wilderness Years, fighting a questionable campaign with a questionable strategy. To put all the country's eggs in one basket is short sighted, lacking any appreciation of military capability or effective intelligence in terms of defence strategy and planning.
Far from those who advocate a balanced military with a credible firepower capability - Typhoon, JSF AND armour, carriers, destroyers etc - being Cold War warriors with no place in the contemporary operating environment, those who repeatedly stick their head in the sand and constantly argue for the disestablishment of anything that doesn't fit in with their own agendas has no place in the defence of this country are frankly a bigger threat to this country than the Taliban. Whilst not a fan of Jock Stirrup, it is for this reason that the Army must not be allowed to dominate the very senior levels of Defence, and the politicians must be told in words of less than one syllable the likely consequences of their short sighted actions.
Last edited by Melchett01; 14th Jan 2010 at 07:36.
Aircraft carriers, the very pinnacle of force projection, are a bit useless in Afghanistan so they are under the hammer
Aircraft carriers are not useless in the stan. As anyone who has spent any time there will verify, a significant amount of the CAS effort is supplied by the USN, using Aircraft Carriers. The reason the UK cannot do this is because the ships we have are not big enough to provide an appropriate air platform. QE will be big enough but then there is the problem of having a jet with the legs and the capability to carry a decent payload.
I am not in any way diminishing the contribution of land based air, just correcting a misconception that aircraft operating from the sea are not relevant in the current operation.
Since entering the U.S. 5th Fleet Area of Operations Sept. 18., CVW 11 has flown more than 1,800 sorties and totaled more than 10,000 cumulative flight hours in support of OEF.
Nimitz provides 30 percent of the close air support to the coalition force in Afghanistan.
Nimitz provides 30 percent of the close air support to the coalition force in Afghanistan.
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Widger:
I am aware of the Naval air component. Unfortunately, the unwashed masses that vote for their benefits don't see the Royal Navy as "ships of the desert". I'll concede I could/should have been clearer...
I am aware of the Naval air component. Unfortunately, the unwashed masses that vote for their benefits don't see the Royal Navy as "ships of the desert". I'll concede I could/should have been clearer...
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With the exception of vecvechookattack and Rigga, I agree with all of you. I also appreciate the humour clearly intended by NutLoose.
That does sound attractive; except for the dangers that would follow. Upon having been there for some time, these “Stateless” people would probably become sufficiently self governing to make a plea for Independence. Such a plea to the UN would probably receive support. After all, a significant precedent was set with Kosovo.
Anyway, reacquiring Thread centreline, the Government of the day will need to think carefully about British Overseas Territories and British mineral extraction rights in certain parts of the World. To pursue those aims, I suggest a Landcentric defence force would not be particularly useful.
As for the the UKs illegal immigrants when arrested if they cannot provide any form of identification to allow their deportation, arrest them, transfer them and pop them on some uninhabited desolate Island up the top of scotland as a detention centre...... no walls just several miles of nothingness to swim across.... give em some sheep, cattle, building materials and a new way of life.........
That does sound attractive; except for the dangers that would follow. Upon having been there for some time, these “Stateless” people would probably become sufficiently self governing to make a plea for Independence. Such a plea to the UN would probably receive support. After all, a significant precedent was set with Kosovo.
Anyway, reacquiring Thread centreline, the Government of the day will need to think carefully about British Overseas Territories and British mineral extraction rights in certain parts of the World. To pursue those aims, I suggest a Landcentric defence force would not be particularly useful.
Yes, Him
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that’s like putting a roof-rack on a Ferrari and calling it a family car. This is no way to deliver fire support to ground troops.
On a serious note and a gen question, why are all the tanks Challenger IIs and their associated gear such as ARVs sat in Germany being polished to death? One would think that they are pretty impervious to most IEDs and would be useful in the convoy escort role at least, despite their slowness.
I understand its tank doctrine to not go solo but in formations, so send enough to do formations. And that, is the limit of my knowledge of the beast except don't kip under them.
Any Panzer mates care to comment, as I say, genuine question, not banter.
Well, we are spending money on Helo's .......... I despair!
Daniel Kawczynski MP.
I recently returned from an International Development Select Committee trip to Kenya and Tanzania.
We currently give Kenya and Tanzania £50 million and £150 million respectively each year in international aid, yet a great deal of what our money is being used for in Kenya could easily be provided by Microfinance.
All the local newspapers in Nairobi during our stay had stories about how the President and senior ministers are about to spend £100 million on buying new helicopters for themselves from Russia.
Can an incoming Conservative government really continue to give so much to Kenya?
British pensioners are cutting back on meals to save money as Kenya spends so much on luxuries for its government. And guess what the monthly salary and expenses package is for a Kenyan MP? It is £8,000!
Daniel Kawczynski MP.
I recently returned from an International Development Select Committee trip to Kenya and Tanzania.
We currently give Kenya and Tanzania £50 million and £150 million respectively each year in international aid, yet a great deal of what our money is being used for in Kenya could easily be provided by Microfinance.
All the local newspapers in Nairobi during our stay had stories about how the President and senior ministers are about to spend £100 million on buying new helicopters for themselves from Russia.
Can an incoming Conservative government really continue to give so much to Kenya?
British pensioners are cutting back on meals to save money as Kenya spends so much on luxuries for its government. And guess what the monthly salary and expenses package is for a Kenyan MP? It is £8,000!
Cunning Artificer
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"Never take your eye off the ball."
The primary purpose of the Royal Air Force is the defence of UK Airspace against external threat. All other possible uses of air power are subservient to that purpose.
Likewise, the primary purpose of the Royal Navy is the defence of the sea lanes upon which our survival as a nation depends. All other possible uses are subservient to that purpose (and it is worth keeping in mind that the Somali pirates are a bigger threat to us than the Taliban.)
Perhaps Mr. Mallinson would like to express his opinion on the primary purpose of the Army? Or for that matter, the fitness for purpose of our whole defence structure?
The primary purpose of the Royal Air Force is the defence of UK Airspace against external threat. All other possible uses of air power are subservient to that purpose.
Likewise, the primary purpose of the Royal Navy is the defence of the sea lanes upon which our survival as a nation depends. All other possible uses are subservient to that purpose (and it is worth keeping in mind that the Somali pirates are a bigger threat to us than the Taliban.)
Perhaps Mr. Mallinson would like to express his opinion on the primary purpose of the Army? Or for that matter, the fitness for purpose of our whole defence structure?
transfer them and pop them on some uninhabited desolate Island
